who put blame on any1 !!!!!!????
we were discussing BEHAVIOURISM - since dot linked it to history !!!!!
and its about how ppl who went thru genocide act - two prototypes - different results !!
i cannot say definitivly what would have happened in history IF, but i think if there were no oil interest and if britain didn't interfere, i don't see any reason why jews and arabs wouldn't have been able to coexist in this region.
To escape the one-way street that retaliation-policy is, I think, historical education about the faults of your own NAtion, country or people is crucial.
Because you have to accept that "your people" were or are offenders and not only victims.
Gemany accepted its crimes after WWII and taught its people about it.
South Affrica accepted the crimes done under the apartheid-regime.
Did Turkey acknowledge the Armenian-genocide and teach about it in schools?
Is Israel willing to accept that they commited crimes against the palestinian population?
The sad thing about the conflict in Lebanon is, that there to speak about the faults or guilt of the nation(?) as a whole is difficult, as it seems to be a (Shiit ?)part of it responsible for the crimes against its neighbours.
I must confess, I don't know too much about the historic details, but I am sure that education and knowledge of oyur owen historic faults is key for solving the dilemma.
(Isn't the concept of repentance part of the teaching of Christianity, Judaism and Islam ? But I am not sure)
what u just mentioned urbanisto is true !
but let me say this :
hizbollah has had a strong social power ever since the early 90's though it existed prior to that date. so it's still early to talk abt history - though inside lebanon the political scene is quite rich - in the sense that u may find different partys that object to hizbollahs policies- views- links with syrian and iran.
Let me note that the syria/iran/hizbollah triangle has had its influence over lebanon for the past 15 years - and only recently have we been able to express our thoughts freely after the withdrawal of the syrian army.
So evthg is still fresh - restructuring institutions - economy - etc.
The last thing we needed to deal with was a new attack from what we thought was becoming (an american-international community back up to the new government which would be able to hold israel back)
seems its only words ... no actions !!!
what u just mentioned urbanisto is true !
but let me say this :
hizbollah has had a strong social power ever since the early 90's though it existed prior to that date. so it's still early to talk abt history - though inside lebanon the political scene is quite rich - in the sense that u may find different partys that object to hizbollahs policies- views- links with syrian and iran.
Let me note that the syria/iran/hizbollah triangle has had its influence over lebanon for the past 15 years - and only recently have we been able to express our thoughts freely after the withdrawal of the syrian army.
So evthg is still fresh - restructuring institutions - economy - etc.
The last thing we needed to deal with was a new attack from what we thought was becoming (an american-international community back up to the new government which would be able to hold israel back)
seems its only words ... no deeds !!!
ET, i agree, I am very dissapointed with the US government's actions (or lack thereof) regarding this dillema. We, the US, are going back on the promise of trying to "bring democracy" to the region. It shows that we favor the expulsion of a militant group over the freedom of those in the region. This just indginifies what many in this country claim to have been the justification for occupying Iraq. Promote democracy with one hand, allow for the destruction of it with the other.
Given our track record in the region, since the early 1900s, this doesn't suprise me.
dot, why do you think any external entity can promise to "bring" democracy? democracy should evlove from the will of the people who wish to govern themselves.
even the u.s. cannot bring democracy to where it is not wanted.
both iraq and lebanon are contested nations with severe secterian divides. the main differences are that iraq has oil and lebanon doesnt, while the lebanese are aiming at democracy and the iraqi society as a whole is probably not ready for democracy yet.
in lebanon, it is clear that hizbulla is in the way of democracy, preventing the people from excercising sovereignty over their nation (hizbulla rules southern lebanon) and undermining the public sectore by providing quasi-public services.
therefore, hizbulla's demise (at least as an armed terrorist group) should be in the interest of democracy. having said that, one should wonder why has lebanon (and the u.s. for that matter) have waited for israel to come after hizbulla while its neutralization should have been a lebanese interest for democracy to begin with.
of course, i am not blaming lebanon for being bombed right now, and i am not blaming israel for wanting hizbulla gone, but i am saying that when hizbulla was passively allowed to grow stronger and go wild, one should not be surprised the way it is being treated by israel is not in the best interest of lebanese democracy.
if the lebanese want democracy, they should rid themselves of hizbulla and other armed groups which do not respect the rule of the people jeapordize them. not for the sake of israel - they can always bomb the hell out of their enemies (and everybody else within a two mile radius) - but for the sake of a democratic sovereign lebanon.
my guess is that the current lebanese government was either too hesitant or too weak until now to act up on this, and i hope it will not turn out to be too late further on.
"Refuting Al-Zawahiri's theories and selective use of Islamic history is critical to the ideological fight against al-Qaeda"... and it's derivative in Palestine and Lebanon.
The current regime in the u s of a fears allowing democracy where theologist (who are not 'christian'), left leaning socialists, and humanist parties are elected to power... If democracy is the greatest expression of self determination, why should we be afraid??? is it the realization that power corrupts? and once in power, a party will resist change by all means neccessary (ie nixon and carl rove).
If a true democracy elects a fundamentist party into power, then will the party oppress beliefs different then their own???
The extremists of the world (including ralph reed) need fear and hate to rise to power - the moderate majority of the world is too easily swayed by propaganda.
Back to the crisis in the levant - Hamas has filled a vacuum by providing desperately needed social services and skimming funds to perpetuate their armed faction. If a secular and non-terrorist affiliated government could provide the food, water, health-care, and education that Hamas has provided to the lebanese, then there would be less popular support for their tactics. The fear of Israel has served Hamas well in maintaining power.
In Israel, the hawks and ultra-orthodox fundementalists (a definite minority) have polital power based on stirring up the fears of the moderate majority (this seems similar to the republican party).
To quote margaret atwood - do we truly want the freedom from or the freedom to? The world seems to be pushing for freedom from fear without considering the cost of real freedom. War is never a permanent fix to the underlaying issues that ferment the unrest and power struggles.
As america will never win the 'war agains islamofascists' without changing our global policies and how we use our superpower monopoly in self serving destructive ways, israel can never achieve peace without integrating the displaced palestinians into a functioning economy.
Feminism has an important role too, by increasing economic and eductational opportunities for women - there is a greater rise in quality of life then anyother form of economic aid. Peace in the middle-east requires including the women more then the men (a reversal of the current arab social structure).
We always need hope! thanks xray.
This thread has had moments of great lucidity and wisom- lets try not to start calling eachother names or playing off negative stereotypes.
As architects - we build! Building is good! Peace provides more opportunities to build. Too bad much of this effort will be reconstructing destroyed infrastructure.
xray, i don't believe that. i was stating that "bringing democracy" was an obvious false pretense that is becoming even more obvious now.
what would you guys say is the motive/strategy of hezbollah? is this a a last ditch effort to exert their diminishing power in the region, or is it a way for them gain regional support for their cause by demonstrating that the israelis are the aggressors?
"my guess is that the current lebanese government was either too hesitant or too weak until now to act up on this"
The gvment is too weak compared to the support Hizbollah has from both IRAN and SYRIA ! - let's not 4 get one thing here, there still are occupied territories in southern Lebanon, so Hizbollah has the "legal" right to have arms as a resistance force to kick israelis out of the chebaa farms!
As long as that issue is not dealt with i don't c how we are able to disarm Hizbollah -
and 2)- i wonder how u say (they should rid themselves of hizbulla)
Hizbollah is not just a party- its abt the ppl- the social - it is lets say the shi3a community of Lebanon- u can never get rid of that, even Israel said it - its plan is to weaken Hizbollah not crush it... just can't be achieved!
dottie- hizbollah does not need regional support .
It has the support of the ppl thats what the gvments in power do not reflect - I dont know whether i should say thank god that they dont- or poor are those ppl since they havent had any elections in their lives and are just dealing with an "antique" regime to say the least.
The arab ppl are living a dilemma - the majority of the ppl are in favour of a cause that the governments do not support - that is the result of having old regimes that have been around for decades- unfortunately as long as those regimes do what the U.S. asks them 4, they're fine... (catastrophic !)
The geographic legacy of colonialization, in today's NYtimes gives hope to Lebanon & Israel working thing out.
'Boundaries between many countries of the Middle East, like those in Africa, were haphazardly put together in negotiations by European colonizers who had little regard for ethnic realities. Indeed, they sometimes even lumped enemies together on purpose, hoping that ethnic hatreds might reduce anticolonial feelings. In a new study, three economists — Alberto F. Alesina and Janina Matuszeski of Harvard University and William Easterly of New York University — document how important internal cohesion is for the health of a society.
Their study, “Artificial States,†(www.nyu.edu/fas/institute/dri/Easterly/File/artificialstatesNBER.pdf), creates two measures of how “artificial†a nation’s boundaries are. The first measures whether the country’s political borders partition ethnic groups into separate countries. A country that combines a few Hutus and neighbors another country with lots of Hutus is in greater danger of ethnic fragmentation than a country made up of similar peoples.
The second measures how squiggly the borders of a country are. Straight lines are usually the sign of an arbitrary colonial mapmaker. Natural barriers like rivers and mountains seldom look tidy. Taking the measures of partitioning and neat borders, their study compares the performance of countries with natural borders to those with artificial ones and finds, overwhelmingly, that artificial nations suffer terribly — lower income, horribly ineffective and corrupt governments, less respect for the law, low literacy, limited access to clean water, poor health care, you name it.'
The Department of Standardization has recently joint conferenced with the Ishamic and is pleased to deliver this open letter from the Oriented Standard to the Standardized world at large. We are approaching a wonderful day when all the world will experience The Light of the Standard, UL approved, in full compliance.
------------------------------------
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The Department of Strandardization has been returned from the 2006 Pan Ishamic Standardizational Compliance Committee.
We the Pan Ishamic Standardizational Compliance Committee have by individual right of our fore standard bearers accepted the presence of the Great Accidental Strandard Department. We are pleased to acknowledge the rightful observance and respect of Ishamic standards by these showered Strandardizers from the Accident.
The PISCC 2006 held many joint committees to improve and expound Ishamic Standards to the world of the Great Un-Compliant. The Accidental Un-Compliant prove to be a strandardizable that can take the next step to a complete and total standardization as is known by this The Standard.
The Ishamic Standard has been given in depth to the Accidental Strandizers, submit hereto:
1. It is the standardized standard, by Ishamic Standardization alone.
2. It is the rightful choice, by Ishamic Standardization alone.
3. It is the Standard way, by Ishamic Standardization alone.
4. Self selected, dutiful compliance informs by the rightful Standard, by Ishamic Standardization alone.
5. Interpretation of the rightful Standard is and always will be by the self selected gift of the standard process, by Ishamic Standardization alone .
6. The Standard has standardized us to standardize by the ever present Ishamic vision of standard afterlife of delivering the Standard through eternity to the Standard Unknowns, by Ishamic Standardization alone .
May the Standard always be upright in it’s force!!!
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Praise the delivery of the Standard!!!!
This open letter from the PISCC is the rightful acknowledgment of the Department of Standardization as the Standard of Standards in the world at large. We will continue to hold the Standard in hand as we present our self selected standard leadership to the non-compliant at will. With this we will shortly give our standard in hand to the 2006 Joint Committee of Jewlers. This indeed will surely be a propitious moment and will cap an archival year with many new developed standard forms.
In celebration of the department’s recent accomplishments, please present your Standard in hand to your nearest AIA president for his/her rightful use in full joint committee with standard form.
Appeal : 14 th of March Alliance - major political partys in Leb.
TO ALL HUMAN PEOPLE OUT THERE
Words are not enough to describe the situation the people of Lebanon find themselves in. As an Israeli soldier smokes his cigarette, an air of content spreading on his face, hundreds of innocent Lebanese civilians are being slaughtered, many more lie injured and helpless in hospital beds or on the roads, half a million have been displaced in just one week, and the world is just standing there, watching. Are the innocent children, women and men depicted in these pictures terrorists? Are they in any way responsible for the actions of Hezbollah? Is there any principle in the world that justifies for these people to be the victims of Israel’s barbaric attacks and disproportionate retaliation?
The people of Lebanon have been taken hostage, and they feel trapped between Hezbollah on one side and the inhumane war declared on them by Israel on the other. What happened to the international commitment to support the government of Lebanon in the phase of transition Lebanon was going through after thirty years of war and foreign occupation? Has the international community abandoned the first democratic government of Lebanon? A government which has clearly expressed that it had not been informed of Hezbollah’s action prior to it occurring; a government that has stated time and time again that it did not condone such an act?
Eight days after the beginning of the savage war declared on Lebanon by Israel, the civilian death toll is rising, the infrastructure is heavily damaged, the economic costs are huge, and the people of Lebanon have lost faith in the international community. Aid is being bombarded and remains stuck at the border, and the state is not able to get it to those in need. The humanitarian situation is catastrophic and getting worse by the minute. If we do not manage to obtain an immediate cease-fire, if we do not put an end to the violence, the situation will get much worse and the fragile democracy we are will start falling to pieces.
Lebanon is once again being drawn into a regional war that far exceeds its borders. It is your responsibility not to let that happen. The people of Lebanon deserve to live in dignity. They count on your support to help bring this tragedy to an end immediately.
i have to say, while it might not be the most architectural discussion, political debates are just fine, and are often the greatest tools to learning about how others see crucial issues.
however, when i see the political cartoons being posted on this site, my stomach turns. i feel that all of a sudden i have been thrown back to nazi germany where such anti-zionist and anit-semitic (and i know ppl draw distinctions...but a large majority of jews identify with israel on some level, even if they disagree with the current politics) were published on a regular basis. go check out the holocaust museum in DC, or the heritage museum in NYC. such cartoons were published then. i am horrified to see them being posted on a site such as this one, where i assume the enlightened architects/designers that discuss on these forums should be above such mud-slinging "art."
and, for the record, there are millions of jews in the US, europe, australia, and israel who would take real offense to "most jews prefer to live in the US"!!
nevermore maybe you should read the whole thread, the whole point is that the israelis (i would like to use an expletive for them, but i will abstain), the palestinians and the syrians are using lebanon as a battle ground for their conflicts. If you do a little bit research you will see how much more intense the israeli attack is than the hezbollah.
kashmir is a whole different issue, sir, your statement seems to indicate that all muslims all over the world are the same and carry the same rhetoric. such thoughts add nothing to the discussion.
israel is not going to let hezbollah fire rockets into israel. period. hezbollah is going to be kneecapped by the idf. period.
many israelis who opposed the 1982 invasion and subsequent occupation, tend to support this because they see it as an issue of survival. period.
hezbollah has betrayed lebanon and acted in its own and iran's interest. period.
hezbollah miscalculated and the idf has reacted and many innocents seem to have been caught in the middle with tragic consequences. period.
iran can kiss its nuclear program goodbye.period.
nevermore, i get a feeling that you have a very strong anti-muslim sentiment. Sorry for the judgement, but your post very strongly alludes to it. Im sure you have done your research, but it seems a little biased.
Sure everyone is to blame at some point or other, but was it really necessary to israel to spread the carnage they are currently spreading for pre-emptive measures? All the children killed and family destroyed just so that the Hezbollah would not team up with iran and attack israel? If the mossad is really as skilled as they are said to be, could they not wipe out key hezbollah leaders without all this massive effort? I guess they could.
sameoldoc..neither of me or u have originated from the middle east.
We just have to rely on "news', internet images and opinions and inputs by ET .
lol.
Could the MOSSAD not eliminate the hezbollah leadership in lebanon or palestine ?
The hezbollah are in lebanon just as The Sri Lankan LTTE honchos are in Sri lanka (Norway )or The khalistanis in Amritsar,Taran-taaran(Canada.)
coming back to kashmir.why cant the RAW or the Indian Army enter POK and destroy the training camps and recapture the territory ?
they can do that in 2-3 days, trust me.( The Indian army is the 3rd strongest in the world BTW )
Its a beautiful and complicated world ! thats why they cant do that !
Im sorry for your judgement, Im not against Islam or against Israel for that matter
Im just trying to say thats Its easy to demonize the other side based on "objective" reality ..the fuck up is that nowadays ,objective reality is as subjective as it can get.
The point being, we , the 'politically informed' riff-raff WILL NEVER KNOW the root behind such actions by any state , culture ,religion or idealogy.
e.g-Who knows the real reason why Hitler tried to conquer the world..for aryan supremacy or for his ego ?
we can only get emotional hives as true human beings on pain !
Today we have violent reactions on images of dead or hurt palestinian kids, tomorrow it would be Israeli kids.
or kashmiri kids for that matter.
Dude ..seriously ! ..seriously ...tell me ..
Would these endless rants here serve anything for the pain of anyone in those places ...Two days hence, this concern and thread would die down and we would return to our BOQ's and our working drawings .
I'd like to compare this to Hare-Krishna volunteers soliciting clients like whores at stations and airports !
( see..im anti-hindu too ! )
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If a man is pierced by an arrow, try to reduce his pain before thou ask him which type of arrow was it or when it hit him or who shot it at him'
This is why i stopped posting on archinect, this forum's level of discourse has plummeted into the completely absurd and vulgar. Im not gonna waste my time by reading an hour's worth of hate speech wether anti-semetic or anti-arab, liberal or conservative. My heart goes out to Lebanon, but also to Israel and all the peoples of those great lands who have been embroidled in a useless, absurd war that has been going on since civilization first dawned between the Tigris and Euphrates. This war will never end, ever. There will ALWAYS be war in the middle east, until the end of man itself.
there is no justice... what we have is a tragic and viscious cycle of hatred.
i'm sad to say that we created this problem, and continue to propogate this tragedy. if a policeman gives a gun to a homeless man and declares that another man's home rightfully and legally belongs to the homeless man, what would you expect to happen? no one is in the right here, i'm not sure what the solution is, but i do think its our problem. we made the mistake, we have to fix it... you break it you fix it...
the problem is hatred, oppression, and terror. the medicine is communication, humility, love, forgiveness, and compassion... you can't cure hatred with hatred.
i know this is a sensitive subject, i don't want to preach, everyone is netitled to their own opinion, but that is my view: who hit who first or more times, or has bigger fists is irrelevant. what matters is that we see each othe not as faceless alien evils but as what we really are: human beings.
brain washing is simply about blindness, refusing to walk in each others shoes... demonizing is brainwashing, whatever side you come from...
israel is a racist, clanish, nazi-t ype, aggressive, murderous, klannish bunch of fucking racist nazi g enocide promotinmg scum of eartth human beings_
"the medicine is communication, humility, love, forgiveness, and compassion..."
indeed bRink. who is going to take the first step? as my mother always used to say to me regarding the difficulties with my father and i when i was a teenager, "who is going to be the man in the situation?" then, i told her he was the man and he needed to step up.i was only a young boy. now as a man, i realize he was incapable of doing it. i have since been that man that my mother spoke of, and now for the first time in my life, i have a wonderful relationship with my father. true conversations now happen. faults have been forgotten. true love and compassion is now present.
nevermore.. civilians r bombed by f16's in Beirut , and barely a couple of katiosha rockets on haifa !
Death toll : (280 civilians dead 3 hizbollah in Beirut = 277 civilians
30 civilians dead 17 of those r IDF) = 13 civilians
It;s not about numbers... I know - but hell were being barbecued here !
as for the islamic motha fucka./blabla (SPARE ME UR CRAP - i said bastard ZIONISTS not JEWS U RACIST "MOTHA FUCKER -TERRORIST"
and YES TERRORIST since ppl like U are the reason y we see so much shit in this world. !!! (p.s. a nicer way of me saying this would be go read abt zionism boy)
ans what abt kashmir - u just heard some of the news on Cnn ??? and now ur suddenly the expert and want to share with us ur experience... well join me in Beirut - maybe i'll make u share some good experience that would traumatise U !... then we'll c who'll become a "MOTHA FUCKER TERRORIST"
Don't confuse islam with Qaeda.. PLS !
nevermore... ur a pathetic person... negro muslim? among other shit u talked about... whats goin gon here? damn it...
What Islam has got to do with all this???... and ur saying that the huzballah and iran planned all this to attack israel u mus tb kidding hhehe ... well le tme tell u smthg dear.. the huzb.. was just got traped by israel if it was now or in 2-4months it would have been the same if they took the 2 soldiers.. or if it was only a squirmich on the borders israel would have declared the war in anycase.. Have any1 of you heard of Water war.. well guys .. thats the whole thing.. Israel wants our water.. no more no less of course it is trying to minimize the shiite faction which is by the way supported by a big part of lebanese populaton... and minimising it will be by showing its military strengths.. because if you noticed in the last 4-5 years the huzb.. was showing.. that he is a good miltary oppenent.. and well that inflamed the israelis because sinc eits creation israel wanted to show that it s the ultim. power in the region.. but first iraq started to hreat that osition so here now the war in there ravaged who do uthink .. is making the sunnist and shiites kil themselves like that .. duu MOSSAD.. and after iraq came iran with its nuclear power.. and there it is.. booomm what better than lebanon as a ground.. for their battles.. but in the end.. we are the one who are dying.. suffering ... the huzballah is not a terrorist organisation.. mayb it got this reputation after the kidnapping.. n the mi 80s..and the us embassy bombing.. and of course that was stupid strategy.. and stupid way to fight for ur own country..but after 89.. their strategy was smthg else... they just wanted to free our land.. mayb theyr religious.. which of course i dnt agree at all... but if u c the lebanese factions.. well they are like the xtian faction whcih called the lebanese forces... anyway.. at the end.. i just want to say and beg in this time after only 11 days .. we have more than 330 dead... and by this rate it is a very big massacre .. we dnt deserve this.. not after wha we have been go through...
War on Lebanon by bastard Zionists !
who put blame on any1 !!!!!!????
we were discussing BEHAVIOURISM - since dot linked it to history !!!!!
and its about how ppl who went thru genocide act - two prototypes - different results !!
ET. perhaps it was planned. after Balfour, jews were a minority. After the Holocaust, they were a nation.
i agree dottie !
but let's say the famous "international community" had smthg to do with it ! no?
i cannot say definitivly what would have happened in history IF, but i think if there were no oil interest and if britain didn't interfere, i don't see any reason why jews and arabs wouldn't have been able to coexist in this region.
one more vote for the hot slutz and pie contingent.
or my new alternative:
Anyone trying to claim a moral high ground in this shit gets kicked in the nuts.
Images not suitable for children and the weak hearted. Caution is highly suggested.
Id seen some of those images before ET, please take care of yourself and your family in these harsh times.
To escape the one-way street that retaliation-policy is, I think, historical education about the faults of your own NAtion, country or people is crucial.
Because you have to accept that "your people" were or are offenders and not only victims.
Gemany accepted its crimes after WWII and taught its people about it.
South Affrica accepted the crimes done under the apartheid-regime.
Did Turkey acknowledge the Armenian-genocide and teach about it in schools?
Is Israel willing to accept that they commited crimes against the palestinian population?
The sad thing about the conflict in Lebanon is, that there to speak about the faults or guilt of the nation(?) as a whole is difficult, as it seems to be a (Shiit ?)part of it responsible for the crimes against its neighbours.
I must confess, I don't know too much about the historic details, but I am sure that education and knowledge of oyur owen historic faults is key for solving the dilemma.
(Isn't the concept of repentance part of the teaching of Christianity, Judaism and Islam ? But I am not sure)
what u just mentioned urbanisto is true !
but let me say this :
hizbollah has had a strong social power ever since the early 90's though it existed prior to that date. so it's still early to talk abt history - though inside lebanon the political scene is quite rich - in the sense that u may find different partys that object to hizbollahs policies- views- links with syrian and iran.
Let me note that the syria/iran/hizbollah triangle has had its influence over lebanon for the past 15 years - and only recently have we been able to express our thoughts freely after the withdrawal of the syrian army.
So evthg is still fresh - restructuring institutions - economy - etc.
The last thing we needed to deal with was a new attack from what we thought was becoming (an american-international community back up to the new government which would be able to hold israel back)
seems its only words ... no actions !!!
what u just mentioned urbanisto is true !
but let me say this :
hizbollah has had a strong social power ever since the early 90's though it existed prior to that date. so it's still early to talk abt history - though inside lebanon the political scene is quite rich - in the sense that u may find different partys that object to hizbollahs policies- views- links with syrian and iran.
Let me note that the syria/iran/hizbollah triangle has had its influence over lebanon for the past 15 years - and only recently have we been able to express our thoughts freely after the withdrawal of the syrian army.
So evthg is still fresh - restructuring institutions - economy - etc.
The last thing we needed to deal with was a new attack from what we thought was becoming (an american-international community back up to the new government which would be able to hold israel back)
seems its only words ... no deeds !!!
ET, i agree, I am very dissapointed with the US government's actions (or lack thereof) regarding this dillema. We, the US, are going back on the promise of trying to "bring democracy" to the region. It shows that we favor the expulsion of a militant group over the freedom of those in the region. This just indginifies what many in this country claim to have been the justification for occupying Iraq. Promote democracy with one hand, allow for the destruction of it with the other.
Given our track record in the region, since the early 1900s, this doesn't suprise me.
dot, why do you think any external entity can promise to "bring" democracy? democracy should evlove from the will of the people who wish to govern themselves.
even the u.s. cannot bring democracy to where it is not wanted.
both iraq and lebanon are contested nations with severe secterian divides. the main differences are that iraq has oil and lebanon doesnt, while the lebanese are aiming at democracy and the iraqi society as a whole is probably not ready for democracy yet.
in lebanon, it is clear that hizbulla is in the way of democracy, preventing the people from excercising sovereignty over their nation (hizbulla rules southern lebanon) and undermining the public sectore by providing quasi-public services.
therefore, hizbulla's demise (at least as an armed terrorist group) should be in the interest of democracy. having said that, one should wonder why has lebanon (and the u.s. for that matter) have waited for israel to come after hizbulla while its neutralization should have been a lebanese interest for democracy to begin with.
of course, i am not blaming lebanon for being bombed right now, and i am not blaming israel for wanting hizbulla gone, but i am saying that when hizbulla was passively allowed to grow stronger and go wild, one should not be surprised the way it is being treated by israel is not in the best interest of lebanese democracy.
if the lebanese want democracy, they should rid themselves of hizbulla and other armed groups which do not respect the rule of the people jeapordize them. not for the sake of israel - they can always bomb the hell out of their enemies (and everybody else within a two mile radius) - but for the sake of a democratic sovereign lebanon.
my guess is that the current lebanese government was either too hesitant or too weak until now to act up on this, and i hope it will not turn out to be too late further on.
"Refuting Al-Zawahiri's theories and selective use of Islamic history is critical to the ideological fight against al-Qaeda"... and it's derivative in Palestine and Lebanon.
The current regime in the u s of a fears allowing democracy where theologist (who are not 'christian'), left leaning socialists, and humanist parties are elected to power... If democracy is the greatest expression of self determination, why should we be afraid??? is it the realization that power corrupts? and once in power, a party will resist change by all means neccessary (ie nixon and carl rove).
If a true democracy elects a fundamentist party into power, then will the party oppress beliefs different then their own???
The extremists of the world (including ralph reed) need fear and hate to rise to power - the moderate majority of the world is too easily swayed by propaganda.
Back to the crisis in the levant - Hamas has filled a vacuum by providing desperately needed social services and skimming funds to perpetuate their armed faction. If a secular and non-terrorist affiliated government could provide the food, water, health-care, and education that Hamas has provided to the lebanese, then there would be less popular support for their tactics. The fear of Israel has served Hamas well in maintaining power.
In Israel, the hawks and ultra-orthodox fundementalists (a definite minority) have polital power based on stirring up the fears of the moderate majority (this seems similar to the republican party).
To quote margaret atwood - do we truly want the freedom from or the freedom to? The world seems to be pushing for freedom from fear without considering the cost of real freedom. War is never a permanent fix to the underlaying issues that ferment the unrest and power struggles.
As america will never win the 'war agains islamofascists' without changing our global policies and how we use our superpower monopoly in self serving destructive ways, israel can never achieve peace without integrating the displaced palestinians into a functioning economy.
Feminism has an important role too, by increasing economic and eductational opportunities for women - there is a greater rise in quality of life then anyother form of economic aid. Peace in the middle-east requires including the women more then the men (a reversal of the current arab social structure).
We always need hope! thanks xray.
This thread has had moments of great lucidity and wisom- lets try not to start calling eachother names or playing off negative stereotypes.
As architects - we build! Building is good! Peace provides more opportunities to build. Too bad much of this effort will be reconstructing destroyed infrastructure.
xray, i don't believe that. i was stating that "bringing democracy" was an obvious false pretense that is becoming even more obvious now.
what would you guys say is the motive/strategy of hezbollah? is this a a last ditch effort to exert their diminishing power in the region, or is it a way for them gain regional support for their cause by demonstrating that the israelis are the aggressors?
"my guess is that the current lebanese government was either too hesitant or too weak until now to act up on this"
The gvment is too weak compared to the support Hizbollah has from both IRAN and SYRIA ! - let's not 4 get one thing here, there still are occupied territories in southern Lebanon, so Hizbollah has the "legal" right to have arms as a resistance force to kick israelis out of the chebaa farms!
As long as that issue is not dealt with i don't c how we are able to disarm Hizbollah -
and 2)- i wonder how u say (they should rid themselves of hizbulla)
Hizbollah is not just a party- its abt the ppl- the social - it is lets say the shi3a community of Lebanon- u can never get rid of that, even Israel said it - its plan is to weaken Hizbollah not crush it... just can't be achieved!
dottie- hizbollah does not need regional support .
It has the support of the ppl thats what the gvments in power do not reflect - I dont know whether i should say thank god that they dont- or poor are those ppl since they havent had any elections in their lives and are just dealing with an "antique" regime to say the least.
The arab ppl are living a dilemma - the majority of the ppl are in favour of a cause that the governments do not support - that is the result of having old regimes that have been around for decades- unfortunately as long as those regimes do what the U.S. asks them 4, they're fine... (catastrophic !)
Did Turkey acknowledge the Armenian-genocide and teach about it in schools?
ummmm........no
The geographic legacy of colonialization, in today's NYtimes gives hope to Lebanon & Israel working thing out.
'Boundaries between many countries of the Middle East, like those in Africa, were haphazardly put together in negotiations by European colonizers who had little regard for ethnic realities. Indeed, they sometimes even lumped enemies together on purpose, hoping that ethnic hatreds might reduce anticolonial feelings. In a new study, three economists — Alberto F. Alesina and Janina Matuszeski of Harvard University and William Easterly of New York University — document how important internal cohesion is for the health of a society.
Their study, “Artificial States,†(www.nyu.edu/fas/institute/dri/Easterly/File/artificialstatesNBER.pdf), creates two measures of how “artificial†a nation’s boundaries are. The first measures whether the country’s political borders partition ethnic groups into separate countries. A country that combines a few Hutus and neighbors another country with lots of Hutus is in greater danger of ethnic fragmentation than a country made up of similar peoples.
The second measures how squiggly the borders of a country are. Straight lines are usually the sign of an arbitrary colonial mapmaker. Natural barriers like rivers and mountains seldom look tidy. Taking the measures of partitioning and neat borders, their study compares the performance of countries with natural borders to those with artificial ones and finds, overwhelmingly, that artificial nations suffer terribly — lower income, horribly ineffective and corrupt governments, less respect for the law, low literacy, limited access to clean water, poor health care, you name it.'
treekiller, interesting study.
very interesting study treekiller .
on the other hand, some of the newest pics on what's going on in Beirut -
"STILL TOO SOON FOR A CEASE-FIRE" Bolton-Bush !
and always more.....
and yes ill keep on posting all the sites i know....
"may this madness be defeated" quoting Majida's song...
The Department of Standardization has recently joint conferenced with the Ishamic and is pleased to deliver this open letter from the Oriented Standard to the Standardized world at large. We are approaching a wonderful day when all the world will experience The Light of the Standard, UL approved, in full compliance.
------------------------------------
To all the Strandardizers in the Great Accident:
The Department of Strandardization has been returned from the 2006 Pan Ishamic Standardizational Compliance Committee.
We the Pan Ishamic Standardizational Compliance Committee have by individual right of our fore standard bearers accepted the presence of the Great Accidental Strandard Department. We are pleased to acknowledge the rightful observance and respect of Ishamic standards by these showered Strandardizers from the Accident.
The PISCC 2006 held many joint committees to improve and expound Ishamic Standards to the world of the Great Un-Compliant. The Accidental Un-Compliant prove to be a strandardizable that can take the next step to a complete and total standardization as is known by this The Standard.
The Ishamic Standard has been given in depth to the Accidental Strandizers, submit hereto:
1. It is the standardized standard, by Ishamic Standardization alone.
2. It is the rightful choice, by Ishamic Standardization alone.
3. It is the Standard way, by Ishamic Standardization alone.
4. Self selected, dutiful compliance informs by the rightful Standard, by Ishamic Standardization alone.
5. Interpretation of the rightful Standard is and always will be by the self selected gift of the standard process, by Ishamic Standardization alone .
6. The Standard has standardized us to standardize by the ever present Ishamic vision of standard afterlife of delivering the Standard through eternity to the Standard Unknowns, by Ishamic Standardization alone .
May the Standard always be upright in it’s force!!!
May the Standard be always straight and narrow!!!
Praise the delivery of the Standard!!!!
-----------------------------------------------------
This open letter from the PISCC is the rightful acknowledgment of the Department of Standardization as the Standard of Standards in the world at large. We will continue to hold the Standard in hand as we present our self selected standard leadership to the non-compliant at will. With this we will shortly give our standard in hand to the 2006 Joint Committee of Jewlers. This indeed will surely be a propitious moment and will cap an archival year with many new developed standard forms.
In celebration of the department’s recent accomplishments, please present your Standard in hand to your nearest AIA president for his/her rightful use in full joint committee with standard form.
The Standard shall be revealed to all!!!!!
Appeal : 14 th of March Alliance - major political partys in Leb.
TO ALL HUMAN PEOPLE OUT THERE
Words are not enough to describe the situation the people of Lebanon find themselves in. As an Israeli soldier smokes his cigarette, an air of content spreading on his face, hundreds of innocent Lebanese civilians are being slaughtered, many more lie injured and helpless in hospital beds or on the roads, half a million have been displaced in just one week, and the world is just standing there, watching. Are the innocent children, women and men depicted in these pictures terrorists? Are they in any way responsible for the actions of Hezbollah? Is there any principle in the world that justifies for these people to be the victims of Israel’s barbaric attacks and disproportionate retaliation?
The people of Lebanon have been taken hostage, and they feel trapped between Hezbollah on one side and the inhumane war declared on them by Israel on the other. What happened to the international commitment to support the government of Lebanon in the phase of transition Lebanon was going through after thirty years of war and foreign occupation? Has the international community abandoned the first democratic government of Lebanon? A government which has clearly expressed that it had not been informed of Hezbollah’s action prior to it occurring; a government that has stated time and time again that it did not condone such an act?
Eight days after the beginning of the savage war declared on Lebanon by Israel, the civilian death toll is rising, the infrastructure is heavily damaged, the economic costs are huge, and the people of Lebanon have lost faith in the international community. Aid is being bombarded and remains stuck at the border, and the state is not able to get it to those in need. The humanitarian situation is catastrophic and getting worse by the minute. If we do not manage to obtain an immediate cease-fire, if we do not put an end to the violence, the situation will get much worse and the fragile democracy we are will start falling to pieces.
Lebanon is once again being drawn into a regional war that far exceeds its borders. It is your responsibility not to let that happen. The people of Lebanon deserve to live in dignity. They count on your support to help bring this tragedy to an end immediately.
CEASE-FIRE!!! CEASE-FIRE!!! CEASE-FIRE!!!
14th of March Alliance
cf, bored of your day-job at Eisenman's office?
and here's for your standardization, bitch!
i have to say, while it might not be the most architectural discussion, political debates are just fine, and are often the greatest tools to learning about how others see crucial issues.
however, when i see the political cartoons being posted on this site, my stomach turns. i feel that all of a sudden i have been thrown back to nazi germany where such anti-zionist and anit-semitic (and i know ppl draw distinctions...but a large majority of jews identify with israel on some level, even if they disagree with the current politics) were published on a regular basis. go check out the holocaust museum in DC, or the heritage museum in NYC. such cartoons were published then. i am horrified to see them being posted on a site such as this one, where i assume the enlightened architects/designers that discuss on these forums should be above such mud-slinging "art."
and, for the record, there are millions of jews in the US, europe, australia, and israel who would take real offense to "most jews prefer to live in the US"!!
ET..."Zionist bastards"...is it ?
I was thinking of posting something here which you wouldnt hear very often on CNN or BBC
"COWARDLY ISLAMIC VEIL COVERED JIHADI MOTHA FUCKER TERRORISTS KILL 25 HINDU WOMEN AND CHILDREN IN KASHMIR "
that would be striking,wouldnt it..or are the palestinians or lebanese the only chosen people suffering the most in creation ??
no offence to you ,but the other guy thinks you are a fucking goyim as much as you think he is a fucking kafir /infidel.
pipe down dude, your beginning to rant like a kid.
apologies on what's going around you. may we all pray that peace and sanity return as soon as possible since Noone is innocent.
nevermore maybe you should read the whole thread, the whole point is that the israelis (i would like to use an expletive for them, but i will abstain), the palestinians and the syrians are using lebanon as a battle ground for their conflicts. If you do a little bit research you will see how much more intense the israeli attack is than the hezbollah.
kashmir is a whole different issue, sir, your statement seems to indicate that all muslims all over the world are the same and carry the same rhetoric. such thoughts add nothing to the discussion.
atsama,
this photo essay is for you. don't resort to that anti semitic card just yet, you passive agressive.
innocent people fleeing nazi army
innocent people fleeing the israeli army
yenafar, that article is the first sensible one i read from the israeli side.
israel is not going to let hezbollah fire rockets into israel. period. hezbollah is going to be kneecapped by the idf. period.
many israelis who opposed the 1982 invasion and subsequent occupation, tend to support this because they see it as an issue of survival. period.
hezbollah has betrayed lebanon and acted in its own and iran's interest. period.
hezbollah miscalculated and the idf has reacted and many innocents seem to have been caught in the middle with tragic consequences. period.
iran can kiss its nuclear program goodbye.period.
nevermore, i get a feeling that you have a very strong anti-muslim sentiment. Sorry for the judgement, but your post very strongly alludes to it. Im sure you have done your research, but it seems a little biased.
Sure everyone is to blame at some point or other, but was it really necessary to israel to spread the carnage they are currently spreading for pre-emptive measures? All the children killed and family destroyed just so that the Hezbollah would not team up with iran and attack israel? If the mossad is really as skilled as they are said to be, could they not wipe out key hezbollah leaders without all this massive effort? I guess they could.
sameoldoc..neither of me or u have originated from the middle east.
We just have to rely on "news', internet images and opinions and inputs by ET .
lol.
Could the MOSSAD not eliminate the hezbollah leadership in lebanon or palestine ?
The hezbollah are in lebanon just as The Sri Lankan LTTE honchos are in Sri lanka (Norway )or The khalistanis in Amritsar,Taran-taaran(Canada.)
coming back to kashmir.why cant the RAW or the Indian Army enter POK and destroy the training camps and recapture the territory ?
they can do that in 2-3 days, trust me.( The Indian army is the 3rd strongest in the world BTW )
Its a beautiful and complicated world ! thats why they cant do that !
Im sorry for your judgement, Im not against Islam or against Israel for that matter
Im just trying to say thats Its easy to demonize the other side based on "objective" reality ..the fuck up is that nowadays ,objective reality is as subjective as it can get.
The point being, we , the 'politically informed' riff-raff WILL NEVER KNOW the root behind such actions by any state , culture ,religion or idealogy.
e.g-Who knows the real reason why Hitler tried to conquer the world..for aryan supremacy or for his ego ?
we can only get emotional hives as true human beings on pain !
Today we have violent reactions on images of dead or hurt palestinian kids, tomorrow it would be Israeli kids.
or kashmiri kids for that matter.
Dude ..seriously ! ..seriously ...tell me ..
Would these endless rants here serve anything for the pain of anyone in those places ...Two days hence, this concern and thread would die down and we would return to our BOQ's and our working drawings .
I'd like to compare this to Hare-Krishna volunteers soliciting clients like whores at stations and airports !
( see..im anti-hindu too ! )
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If a man is pierced by an arrow, try to reduce his pain before thou ask him which type of arrow was it or when it hit him or who shot it at him'
--Buddha
Goodnight Bro.
Glory to the Fatherland Bharata.
they do need help
U.S. Speeds Up Bomb Delivery for the Israelis
This is why i stopped posting on archinect, this forum's level of discourse has plummeted into the completely absurd and vulgar. Im not gonna waste my time by reading an hour's worth of hate speech wether anti-semetic or anti-arab, liberal or conservative. My heart goes out to Lebanon, but also to Israel and all the peoples of those great lands who have been embroidled in a useless, absurd war that has been going on since civilization first dawned between the Tigris and Euphrates. This war will never end, ever. There will ALWAYS be war in the middle east, until the end of man itself.
there is no justice... what we have is a tragic and viscious cycle of hatred.
i'm sad to say that we created this problem, and continue to propogate this tragedy. if a policeman gives a gun to a homeless man and declares that another man's home rightfully and legally belongs to the homeless man, what would you expect to happen? no one is in the right here, i'm not sure what the solution is, but i do think its our problem. we made the mistake, we have to fix it... you break it you fix it...
the problem is hatred, oppression, and terror. the medicine is communication, humility, love, forgiveness, and compassion... you can't cure hatred with hatred.
i know this is a sensitive subject, i don't want to preach, everyone is netitled to their own opinion, but that is my view: who hit who first or more times, or has bigger fists is irrelevant. what matters is that we see each othe not as faceless alien evils but as what we really are: human beings.
brain washing is simply about blindness, refusing to walk in each others shoes... demonizing is brainwashing, whatever side you come from...
israel is a racist, clanish, nazi-t ype, aggressive, murderous, klannish bunch of fucking racist nazi g enocide promotinmg scum of eartth human beings_
"the medicine is communication, humility, love, forgiveness, and compassion..."
indeed bRink. who is going to take the first step? as my mother always used to say to me regarding the difficulties with my father and i when i was a teenager, "who is going to be the man in the situation?" then, i told her he was the man and he needed to step up.i was only a young boy. now as a man, i realize he was incapable of doing it. i have since been that man that my mother spoke of, and now for the first time in my life, i have a wonderful relationship with my father. true conversations now happen. faults have been forgotten. true love and compassion is now present.
nevermore.. civilians r bombed by f16's in Beirut , and barely a couple of katiosha rockets on haifa !
Death toll : (280 civilians dead 3 hizbollah in Beirut = 277 civilians
30 civilians dead 17 of those r IDF) = 13 civilians
It;s not about numbers... I know - but hell were being barbecued here !
as for the islamic motha fucka./blabla (SPARE ME UR CRAP - i said bastard ZIONISTS not JEWS U RACIST "MOTHA FUCKER -TERRORIST"
and YES TERRORIST since ppl like U are the reason y we see so much shit in this world. !!! (p.s. a nicer way of me saying this would be go read abt zionism boy)
ans what abt kashmir - u just heard some of the news on Cnn ??? and now ur suddenly the expert and want to share with us ur experience... well join me in Beirut - maybe i'll make u share some good experience that would traumatise U !... then we'll c who'll become a "MOTHA FUCKER TERRORIST"
Don't confuse islam with Qaeda.. PLS !
nevermore... ur a pathetic person... negro muslim? among other shit u talked about... whats goin gon here? damn it...
What Islam has got to do with all this???... and ur saying that the huzballah and iran planned all this to attack israel u mus tb kidding hhehe ... well le tme tell u smthg dear.. the huzb.. was just got traped by israel if it was now or in 2-4months it would have been the same if they took the 2 soldiers.. or if it was only a squirmich on the borders israel would have declared the war in anycase.. Have any1 of you heard of Water war.. well guys .. thats the whole thing.. Israel wants our water.. no more no less of course it is trying to minimize the shiite faction which is by the way supported by a big part of lebanese populaton... and minimising it will be by showing its military strengths.. because if you noticed in the last 4-5 years the huzb.. was showing.. that he is a good miltary oppenent.. and well that inflamed the israelis because sinc eits creation israel wanted to show that it s the ultim. power in the region.. but first iraq started to hreat that osition so here now the war in there ravaged who do uthink .. is making the sunnist and shiites kil themselves like that .. duu MOSSAD.. and after iraq came iran with its nuclear power.. and there it is.. booomm what better than lebanon as a ground.. for their battles.. but in the end.. we are the one who are dying.. suffering ... the huzballah is not a terrorist organisation.. mayb it got this reputation after the kidnapping.. n the mi 80s..and the us embassy bombing.. and of course that was stupid strategy.. and stupid way to fight for ur own country..but after 89.. their strategy was smthg else... they just wanted to free our land.. mayb theyr religious.. which of course i dnt agree at all... but if u c the lebanese factions.. well they are like the xtian faction whcih called the lebanese forces... anyway.. at the end.. i just want to say and beg in this time after only 11 days .. we have more than 330 dead... and by this rate it is a very big massacre .. we dnt deserve this.. not after wha we have been go through...
CEASE FIRE CEASE FIRE.. CEASE FIRE
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