HOLY CRAP! That was a helluva a game and a helluva a series. I hope that y'all were watching on ESPN. The game was pretty ugly for us until that beautiful 7th inning.
another interesting stat... so far the rays have had the toughest schedule in baseball... the average winning percentage of the teams that we've played is .532...
It is not "the proof is in the pudding"; which means nothing. It is "the proof of the pudding is in the eating" which means that if you want to know if pudding is good, you can look at it and talk about it all you want, but the only thing that really matters is the taste.
Even though my team, the Twins, are an AL team, I recocgnize that the NL doesn't have the DH, making it a fundimentally a better league.
o.....ok.....sure LD....thanks clearing that one up....or not. It isn't my fault that everyone uses a bastardized version of an old idiom. Now you know the real expression, so use it, and stop sounding like a fool! fool!
My arguement for why the NL is better is simple and short. the NL plays by the original rules of the game in which every player hits. This is a more natural way to play the game, when you were growing up playing Babe Ruth or Little league, did you have DHs? no, because it is silly, everyone should bat and everyone should play the field. I don't blame the guys currently playing as DHs, they didn't establish the rules of the AL, but if I had my way, I would switch it back.
the nl is horrible because they have antiquated rules. the entire league is practically still in the 19th century and is seriously screwing up baseball with their backwards attitudes. it's bad enough that their insistence on pitchers running bases cost the yankees one of their best pitchers. it's also unfortunate that a great baseball player like barry bonds is ostracized for using steroids. in the american league this would be considered an acceptable modern practice, but because he plays in the national league he's held to ridiculous, naive, old-fashioned standards. he really should come to the yankees and help the american league continue its dominion over the national league.
Anybody stop to look at the All star game rosters? I'm annoyed by how guys who are passed their prime or having a down season still get to be starters based on their previous accomplishments (I can only assume that is why people vote for them). Overall the picks aren't too bad. Decide for yourself, but I don't think Ichiro, Soriano or David Ortiz should be starting this season.
the "@" symbol denotes manager picks, who mostly got it right. Sherrill from Baltimore seams like a stretch, though I suppose he was he was just put on there to represent his team.
AMERICAN LEAGUE:
STARTERS
POS PLAYER TEAM
C Joe Mauer Minnesota
1B Kevin Youkilis Boston
2B Dustin Pedroia Boston
3B Alex Rodriguez New York
SS Derek Jeter New York
OF Josh Hamilton Texas
OF Manny Ramirez Boston
OF Ichiro Suzuki Seattle
DH # David Ortiz Boston
PITCHERS
POS PLAYER TEAM
RHP @Justin Duchscherer Oakland
RHP Roy Halladay Toronto
LHP Scott Kazmir Tampa Bay
LHP Cliff Lee Cleveland
RHP @Joe Nathan Minnesota
RHP Jonathan Papelbon Boston
RHP Mariano Rivera New York
RHP Francisco Rodriguez Los Angeles
RHP Ervin Santana Los Angeles
LHP Joe Saunders Los Angeles
LHP @George Sherrill Baltimore
RHP @Joakim Soria Kansas City
RESERVES
POS PLAYER TEAM
C @Dioner Navarro Tampa Bay
C Jason Varitek Boston
1B Justin Morneau Minnesota
2B Ian Kinsler Texas
SS Michael Young Texas
3B Joe Crede Chicago
3B @Carlos Guillen Detroit
OF J.D. Drew Boston
OF Carlos Quentin Chicago
OF Grady Sizemore Cleveland
DH Milton Bradley Texas
# -- won't play due to injury (Note: Bradley replacing Ortiz as starting DH)
* -- named as injury replacement
NATIONAL LEAGUE
STARTERS
POS PLAYER TEAM
C Geovany Soto Chicago
1B Lance Berkman Houston
2B Chase Utley Philadelphia
3B Chipper Jones Atlanta
SS Hanley Ramirez Florida
OF Ryan Braun Milwaukee
OF Alfonso Soriano Chicago
OF Kosuke Fukudome Chicago
PITCHERS
POS PLAYER TEAM
RHP @Aaron Cook Colorado
RHP Ryan Dempster Chicago
RHP @Dan Haren Arizona
RHP Brad Lidge Philadelphia
RHP Tim Lincecum San Francisco
RHP Ben Sheets Milwaukee
RHP Edinson Volquez Cincinnati
LHP @Billy Wagner New York
RHP Brandon Webb Arizona
RHP Brian Wilson San Francisco
RHP Kerry Wood Chicago
RHP @Carlos Zambrano CHC
RESERVES
POS PLAYER TEAM
C Russell Martin Los Angeles
C @Brian McCann Atlanta
1B Adrian Gonzalez San Diego
1B @Albert Pujols St. Louis
2B Dan Uggla Florida
3B Aramis Ramirez Chicago
SS @Cristian Guzman Washington
SS Miguel Tejada Houston
OF Matt Holliday Colorado
OF Ryan Ludwick St. Louis
OF Nate McLouth Pittsburgh
# -- won't play due to injury
* -- named as injury replacement
as usual there are a few things wrong with this list, but to be honest, i have less qualms than normal with the selections.
For the AL...
clearly the most ridiculous pick is Jason Varitek who is having an absolutely disastrous year, and is actually COSTING the red sox games just by playing... Joe Mauer is 100% Right, but CLEARLY AJ Pierzynski is more deserving of the backup role than Navaro. AJ is a better catcher statistically in virtually every category but batting average, and even then, the difference is thin, and AJ has played almost a dozen more games.
That being said, the Rays have the best team in baseball right now, so they deserve to have more than just Kazmir on this list. I would have liked to see AJ on there, and perhaps JP Howell instead of Navaro.
I also find it odd that NOT A SINGLE pitcher from the best pitching staff (statistically) in baseball is on this team. Both John Danks ( 6-4 2.52 era - 3rd best era in the AL) and Gavin Floyd (10-4 3.22 era .207 BAA) are deserving of a spot, as well as Scott Linebrink (40 appearances already w/1.95 era)
But im happy to see Carlos Quentin and Joe Crede get the nod. Crede (offensively) is clearly deserving of the reserve spot...
I also agree that neither Manny nor Ortiz truly deserve a spot (though im glad to see Milton Bradley take over Ortiz spot).
Thats really my only issue with the AL.
NL Side i have NO IDEA AT ALL how ryan dempster and brian wilson get spots and cole hammels doesnt? thats just crazy...
I could go either way on Dempster, he is having a great season for a great, popular team, so I can see why he picked up so many votes. His pick isn't a travisty as his statistics are comparable to Cole Hamels, Brian Wilson is the real poor selection.
As for the white sox pitching staff, you have to think in terms of who recieved the spots in place of them. It's hard to compare starters vs. relievers so looking at just the other starters, Halladay, Kazmir, Duscherer and Lee are all having great seasons too; at the same time Ervin Santana and Joe Saunders are a little more down to earth with their numbers. I think Danks could take either of their spots. Gavin Floyd is a toss up, so I'd go with the other Angel's player since they would otherwise only have 1 remaining all star.
Linebrink could have George Sherrill's spot, but again he is obviously there to represent his team. The only other possiblity is maybe Pappelbon? who is having an arguably worse season.
lletdownl, way to view the all star balloting through white sox colored glasses. pierzinski may have the stats to nip varitek, but no one outside of chicago likes the guy. he's an a-hole hence should be left off the team. popularity should count for something. that being said most of the red sox starters should be replaced by the reserve. morneau is a better player than youkillis (and has better stats). kinsler is having a way better season than pedroia. and manram is there based on past experience alone.
sadly, no one on my tigers is having an all-star worthy season. i'm a bit surprised pudge was not the back up catcher, but i'm glad carlos guillen got the nod as the token tiger.
that's why it's called voting - it's based on popularity. stats don't really count for anything other than how it affects a player's popularity.
you can say a.j.'s in the top three in all these statistical categories, but he's still a guy hitting .296 with 7 homers and 33 rbis. big freakin' deal. at least, a guy like pudge is a catcher who could throw out a base runner at anytime given time. there's excitement there. the only excitement with a.j. is what shortstop he's going to try to spike or what umpire he's going to try to show up.
Just to reitterate Jafidlers point on AJ, how about the fact that he's an awful fielder? Is there a more noodle armed catcher in baseball? I highly doubt it. The guy has allowed 61 SB already this season, that is ridiculous, how many runs does that add up to? This isn't just a single season trend either, he has never been able to stop even the most tepid and slow base runners from stealing bases.
I agree on the stats being a good metric for selecting players, and do think AJ is having a much better year than Varitek, just like everyone else, but overall I'd go with Pudge.
Yes, AJ does have a bad arm, but he is absolutely NOT a horrible fielder...thats just way off. He consitantly has one of the highest fielding percentages for his positions, and has had serveral errorless streaks, including a 150 game errorless streak that ended in 06. For a catcher not to allow a past ball in 150 starts? thats incredible.
also, you have to look at the fact that AJ has had to deal with notoriously slow deliveries in jon garland, jose contreras, gavin floyd and javier vazquez for much of his career. And anyone who understands baseball will admit stolen bases allowed are as much a pitching issue as they are catching.
if you look at his defensive stats this year beyond stolen bases, they are actually pretty impressive. He has the 3rd highest range factor for catchers who have caught 50 or more games (an everyday catcher in other words)
so... guys, look up the numbers... AJ is in the top 5 AL catchers in virtually every single category... offensively and defensively. Higher than pudge in every single category except stolen bases.
now, pudge is clearly one of the best catchers of all time, but this year, AJ and Joe Mauer are the 2 best catchers in the AL, they should be on the all star team. end of story.
not so fast, my friend. "best catcher" - if by that you mean at the plate. yeah, i agree. pudge got off to a terrible start this year. he was being platooned with brandon inge for several weeks while he got his swing back. (i believe he was also nursing some sort of injury.) he's been on a tear the last few weeks to get his average up to a respectable .280. but "best [insert position here]" to me is a game changer - someone who has skills that "normal" players just don't have. jose reyes immediately comes to mind for his speed, pudge for his throwing arm. these are the guys who i want to see in the all-star game. a.j. pierzynski is a serviceable catcher with offensive numbers that are good for his position, but nothing to write home about compared to a true hitter like joe mauer. even in his best years pierzynski is not exactly what i would call an all star.
can we all get together an agree that Kevin Youkillis has the ugliest swing in baseball? I hate that weird loose upper hand thing he does. Any other candidates?
well, i think you can make a case for either. its been a bummer of a year for ivan, if he and his team weren't off to a terrible start he could probably have made a more convincing candidate. no doubt he has the ability. and aj's move to second is a drawback when you look at voting for something like an all-star. still nobody says you have to be a complete player to make the team, (manny, i'm looking in your direction) i think aj has certainly helped the white sox more this year. He's calling for one of the best team pitching staffs in baseball this year which I think matters. meh...
look at it this way, both our catchers get to stay home and ice those knees. but varitek, what a joke. (this year)
who are your guys' final votes for? dye or longoria?
it seems like longoria is in ESPN's top ten every night, old man dye needs to start diving into the stands every night... get some more publicity, though buster olney did call him the AL Roster's biggest snub.
you must be smoking crack... the kid is tearing up the league...
and on the subject of youkilis... he always looks like he's doing the pee pee dance while batting... fucking sit still you bald-headed fuck... and enough with the damn temper tantrums EVERY time that you don't get a hit...
and just for the record... the idea that pierzynski deserves it more than navarro is just plain insane...
Jeez, do we have another homer whose judgement is clouded by the worshiping of his own team's players?
Tearing up the league?
I agree the kid is playing very well for a ROOIKE, but what makes you think he deserves a spot on the all star team?
a .281 Batting average? 16HR & 52RBI? good numbers, but not exceptional for 3rd basemen in the AL this year... A-rod has a .323 BA, 18HR and 50RBI, and Lowell has a .297BA, 13HR and 54RBI. Lowell didn't even make the team, but if another 3rd basemen were to go, the spot should go to him.
Longoria's numbers aren't as good as Jermain Dyes either if you want to bother to do that comparison.
i'm with synergy. i can't even watch pukilis bat anymore. it's not the loose upper hand thing either, it's all that damn gyrating around likes he's sitting on the sybian. god it drives me fucking batty.
and yeah, that goatee is about the nastiest thing around. i heard he can store enough chowder in there to keep up with big papi's appetite after a week on the road...
craig counsell: the chimney sweep that missed a spot.
to say that lowell's defense isn't as good as langoria's is just ignorant...
we can agree that langoria is good defensively, but lowell has been great
defensively for years...
you're watching alot of the rays, but not alot of any other team apparently
mighty...
can you just stop with the stupid bs about the red sox.
noone is defaming the yankees and making stupid nicknames for jeter or arod
if you're trying to prove a point that you're some kind of die hard yankee
fan you've made it..but you've also proven you're what i see as a typical
yankee fan, which i didn't think was the case...
this thread has seemed to be pretty good baseball discussion...why add the
stupid little barbs?
"it's all that damn gyrating around likes he's sitting on the sybian"
that's the funniest thing that i've read here in quite a while...
bagwell always looked like he was taking a dump...
i remember doing the julio franco as a kid too...
and one last thing...
Jeez, do we have another homer whose judgement is clouded by the worshiping of his own team's players?
says the guy from chicago who's shilling for dye...
anyways, i think that the all-star game is about everyone getting to see the most exciting players in the league... and in my opinion, day in and day out, longo is a much more exciting guy to watch than lowell or dye or any of those other guys...
i mean c'mon, don freakin' zimmer, who is like 400 years old, says longo is the best 3rd baseman that he's seen play...
I'm not a sox (white or red) fan, I just happen to live in Chicago. I'm a diehard twins fan. For evidence, see the above discussion I had with Letdown in which I challenged his ideas of Gavin Floyd, AJ Pierzynski and Scott Linebrink being potential all stars.
You only think Longoria is so exciting because he's your player, same with Zimmer, whose judgement is suspect at best, and now happens to work for the Rays, big deal. Coaches, GM's and Owners routinelly praise players in their own organizations as the best player since.....blah blah... lets see it on the field and batting. If we're going to go with "excitement" as a major criteria, I say we get Postal's pick, Jose Conseco, along with AJ pierzynski, Roger Clemens, Pedor Martinez, Carlos Zambrano, and every other angry hard ass out there and let them have a massive steroid fueled brawl.
By the way, Jermain Dye is hitting .308, has 19 HRs, 52 RBIS, has made only 1 error all season, and has a cannon arm and has never gotten any attention his entire career. Like I said before, Longoria can wait his turn. In case you were wondering, Carlos Quentin started out really hot, but at this point you could even make an arguement that Dye actually deserves his spot, he is hitting 35 points higher with the same number of home runs.
architphil
i think that longoria (apologies for previous misspellings) is going to be a great player for years...just feel like you're discounting lowell's play.
i'm not sure how we measure excitement..but lowell has been a consistent player for a few years now...he has a much better range factor than longoria and better fielding percentage...he may, in other words, make longoria's 'spectacular' plays look routine...but i see lowell play every day...and i don't see longo..but i feel like we had this same conversation last year about delmon young and pedroia...the stats just don't back the argument is all i'm sayin.
synergy
the youkilis comment is pretty funny, but it's not the only comment i was talking about...'blowsox', overrated chowderheads, youkilis having enough chowder in his beard...blah blah blah. every single post had some little typically boring unclever nickname...yankees fans like to claim that they don't care about the red sox and 'talk to me in october' and whatever...when all i ever see is that their fans are just as obsessed about our team as we are about theirs...although not as much recently since the sox have been better.
i'm being oversensitive...but if he wants a reason for why people hate yankee's fans...that's it. the sox aren't overrated...they may have a few undeserving players in the all star game (i would like to see a few more rays since they have the best record in the AL), but they've had their starting roster in place for 12 of 90 games, have played more road games than any other team in baseball and have had one of the toughest schedules...and they still have the second best record in the AL...i think that's respectable...but that's just me. all that with the 4th highest payroll in baseball...70 million less than the yanks.
Longoria for sure will be a great player, hes having a terrifically impressive rookie year, but im in agreement with those above who say his numbers are not the best out there.
Personally, im a massive white sox fan, but i can respect a good young player when they come around. Right now though, Jermaine Dye has been absolutely huge this year, and he has the numbers to prove it. Not to mention the fact that he has been consistantly one of the best right fielders in the AL for years now. He's an all around player, a leader for his team and an all around good dude. I hope he gets in, though i think it will be Longoria in the end unfortunately...
So, who here agrees with me that the Milwaukee Brewers just put themselves in position to be the WC team that makes the world series?
what is WC team? I think it's a huge move, though I'm not sure if it will be enough, my money is still on the cubs winning the division, though I'm not sure about how deep in the playoffs they will go.
and i don't think it's unfair to say that the rays deserve to get rewarded for their first half by having another member on the all star team...
i know from the past how frustrating it is to have a team in first place with one or two players in the all star game...a team's performance should be somewhat important.
ahh oops, well then my response doesn't make too much sense, i do think they have put themselves in a very good spot to win the WC, and they will be tough for anyone that faces them in the playoffs.
The Rays performance arguement doesn't work, the white sox are also on top of their division, so Jermaine Dye is still viable.
o ok.....i must have forgotten......the east division is always the greatest......please forgive my plebian brain for thinking otherwise...... go my yankee overlords go!
no synergy...i am a red sox fan...but it's true at the moment.
with an unbalanced schedule the white sox get to play more games against their division.
just by record they would be the third team in the AL east...i wasn't being condescending, it's just a fact. and i think we can both agree the tigers are having an off year...the royals aren't that good and cleveland is awful...why is it bad for a fan of the white sox or the AL central to admit that they're not as good a division right now?
rays > white sox
red sox > minnesota
new york > detroit
BASEBALL IS BACK!!
SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HOLY CRAP! That was a helluva a game and a helluva a series. I hope that y'all were watching on ESPN. The game was pretty ugly for us until that beautiful 7th inning.
3.5 up in the east and 20 games over .500.
WOW.
another interesting stat... so far the rays have had the toughest schedule in baseball... the average winning percentage of the teams that we've played is .532...
that is an interesting stat arhitphil...where did you find it?
oh i found it...
most difficult schedules thus far go to...
1.Tampa
2.Boston
3.Baltimore
4.White Sox
5.Toronto
easiest schedule thus far goes, ironically, to one of the worst teams in baseball...
the padres opponents combined winning percentage is .475
man...they must really, really suck...
an interesting note as well...
the most difficult schedule played by any NL team has been played by the Pirates, whos SOS is .506. Yet that only ranks 10th in the majors.
the proof is in the pudding in every conceivable way...the NL is terrible...
yes...
terrible...
I hate that expression.
It is not "the proof is in the pudding"; which means nothing. It is "the proof of the pudding is in the eating" which means that if you want to know if pudding is good, you can look at it and talk about it all you want, but the only thing that really matters is the taste.
Even though my team, the Twins, are an AL team, I recocgnize that the NL doesn't have the DH, making it a fundimentally a better league.
i hate the word synergy...
synergy, are you a corporate accountant? or are you just friends with too many human resources people?
"the proof is in the pudding" means, the proof is right there... easy to access, tasty, and delicious.
id like to hear your argument on how the NL is a "fundamentally" better league than the AL
o.....ok.....sure LD....thanks clearing that one up....or not. It isn't my fault that everyone uses a bastardized version of an old idiom. Now you know the real expression, so use it, and stop sounding like a fool! fool!
My arguement for why the NL is better is simple and short. the NL plays by the original rules of the game in which every player hits. This is a more natural way to play the game, when you were growing up playing Babe Ruth or Little league, did you have DHs? no, because it is silly, everyone should bat and everyone should play the field. I don't blame the guys currently playing as DHs, they didn't establish the rules of the AL, but if I had my way, I would switch it back.
the nl is horrible because they have antiquated rules. the entire league is practically still in the 19th century and is seriously screwing up baseball with their backwards attitudes. it's bad enough that their insistence on pitchers running bases cost the yankees one of their best pitchers. it's also unfortunate that a great baseball player like barry bonds is ostracized for using steroids. in the american league this would be considered an acceptable modern practice, but because he plays in the national league he's held to ridiculous, naive, old-fashioned standards. he really should come to the yankees and help the american league continue its dominion over the national league.
puddles you are clearly insane....
puddles/cashman '08!
bring bonds home to new york!*
* - not.
Anybody stop to look at the All star game rosters? I'm annoyed by how guys who are passed their prime or having a down season still get to be starters based on their previous accomplishments (I can only assume that is why people vote for them). Overall the picks aren't too bad. Decide for yourself, but I don't think Ichiro, Soriano or David Ortiz should be starting this season.
the "@" symbol denotes manager picks, who mostly got it right. Sherrill from Baltimore seams like a stretch, though I suppose he was he was just put on there to represent his team.
AMERICAN LEAGUE:
STARTERS
POS PLAYER TEAM
C Joe Mauer Minnesota
1B Kevin Youkilis Boston
2B Dustin Pedroia Boston
3B Alex Rodriguez New York
SS Derek Jeter New York
OF Josh Hamilton Texas
OF Manny Ramirez Boston
OF Ichiro Suzuki Seattle
DH # David Ortiz Boston
PITCHERS
POS PLAYER TEAM
RHP @Justin Duchscherer Oakland
RHP Roy Halladay Toronto
LHP Scott Kazmir Tampa Bay
LHP Cliff Lee Cleveland
RHP @Joe Nathan Minnesota
RHP Jonathan Papelbon Boston
RHP Mariano Rivera New York
RHP Francisco Rodriguez Los Angeles
RHP Ervin Santana Los Angeles
LHP Joe Saunders Los Angeles
LHP @George Sherrill Baltimore
RHP @Joakim Soria Kansas City
RESERVES
POS PLAYER TEAM
C @Dioner Navarro Tampa Bay
C Jason Varitek Boston
1B Justin Morneau Minnesota
2B Ian Kinsler Texas
SS Michael Young Texas
3B Joe Crede Chicago
3B @Carlos Guillen Detroit
OF J.D. Drew Boston
OF Carlos Quentin Chicago
OF Grady Sizemore Cleveland
DH Milton Bradley Texas
# -- won't play due to injury (Note: Bradley replacing Ortiz as starting DH)
* -- named as injury replacement
NATIONAL LEAGUE
STARTERS
POS PLAYER TEAM
C Geovany Soto Chicago
1B Lance Berkman Houston
2B Chase Utley Philadelphia
3B Chipper Jones Atlanta
SS Hanley Ramirez Florida
OF Ryan Braun Milwaukee
OF Alfonso Soriano Chicago
OF Kosuke Fukudome Chicago
PITCHERS
POS PLAYER TEAM
RHP @Aaron Cook Colorado
RHP Ryan Dempster Chicago
RHP @Dan Haren Arizona
RHP Brad Lidge Philadelphia
RHP Tim Lincecum San Francisco
RHP Ben Sheets Milwaukee
RHP Edinson Volquez Cincinnati
LHP @Billy Wagner New York
RHP Brandon Webb Arizona
RHP Brian Wilson San Francisco
RHP Kerry Wood Chicago
RHP @Carlos Zambrano CHC
RESERVES
POS PLAYER TEAM
C Russell Martin Los Angeles
C @Brian McCann Atlanta
1B Adrian Gonzalez San Diego
1B @Albert Pujols St. Louis
2B Dan Uggla Florida
3B Aramis Ramirez Chicago
SS @Cristian Guzman Washington
SS Miguel Tejada Houston
OF Matt Holliday Colorado
OF Ryan Ludwick St. Louis
OF Nate McLouth Pittsburgh
# -- won't play due to injury
* -- named as injury replacement
as usual there are a few things wrong with this list, but to be honest, i have less qualms than normal with the selections.
For the AL...
clearly the most ridiculous pick is Jason Varitek who is having an absolutely disastrous year, and is actually COSTING the red sox games just by playing... Joe Mauer is 100% Right, but CLEARLY AJ Pierzynski is more deserving of the backup role than Navaro. AJ is a better catcher statistically in virtually every category but batting average, and even then, the difference is thin, and AJ has played almost a dozen more games.
That being said, the Rays have the best team in baseball right now, so they deserve to have more than just Kazmir on this list. I would have liked to see AJ on there, and perhaps JP Howell instead of Navaro.
I also find it odd that NOT A SINGLE pitcher from the best pitching staff (statistically) in baseball is on this team. Both John Danks ( 6-4 2.52 era - 3rd best era in the AL) and Gavin Floyd (10-4 3.22 era .207 BAA) are deserving of a spot, as well as Scott Linebrink (40 appearances already w/1.95 era)
But im happy to see Carlos Quentin and Joe Crede get the nod. Crede (offensively) is clearly deserving of the reserve spot...
I also agree that neither Manny nor Ortiz truly deserve a spot (though im glad to see Milton Bradley take over Ortiz spot).
Thats really my only issue with the AL.
NL Side i have NO IDEA AT ALL how ryan dempster and brian wilson get spots and cole hammels doesnt? thats just crazy...
Good call on Varitek, I forgot to mention him.
I could go either way on Dempster, he is having a great season for a great, popular team, so I can see why he picked up so many votes. His pick isn't a travisty as his statistics are comparable to Cole Hamels, Brian Wilson is the real poor selection.
As for the white sox pitching staff, you have to think in terms of who recieved the spots in place of them. It's hard to compare starters vs. relievers so looking at just the other starters, Halladay, Kazmir, Duscherer and Lee are all having great seasons too; at the same time Ervin Santana and Joe Saunders are a little more down to earth with their numbers. I think Danks could take either of their spots. Gavin Floyd is a toss up, so I'd go with the other Angel's player since they would otherwise only have 1 remaining all star.
Linebrink could have George Sherrill's spot, but again he is obviously there to represent his team. The only other possiblity is maybe Pappelbon? who is having an arguably worse season.
ha! joe saunders, blast from the past. he's bulked up significantly since HS, but he seems to really be holding his own.
Fukudome - i swear i thought this was a fake name...
lletdownl, way to view the all star balloting through white sox colored glasses. pierzinski may have the stats to nip varitek, but no one outside of chicago likes the guy. he's an a-hole hence should be left off the team. popularity should count for something. that being said most of the red sox starters should be replaced by the reserve. morneau is a better player than youkillis (and has better stats). kinsler is having a way better season than pedroia. and manram is there based on past experience alone.
sadly, no one on my tigers is having an all-star worthy season. i'm a bit surprised pudge was not the back up catcher, but i'm glad carlos guillen got the nod as the token tiger.
why should popularity matter? look up the numbers...
AJ Pierzynski
-3rd most games caught
-2nd runs scored
-2nd total hits
-2nd doubles
-T for 3rd in HR
-T for 2nd in RBI
-1st Total bases
-4th SLG
-4th BA
thats an all star first half...
that's why it's called voting - it's based on popularity. stats don't really count for anything other than how it affects a player's popularity.
you can say a.j.'s in the top three in all these statistical categories, but he's still a guy hitting .296 with 7 homers and 33 rbis. big freakin' deal. at least, a guy like pudge is a catcher who could throw out a base runner at anytime given time. there's excitement there. the only excitement with a.j. is what shortstop he's going to try to spike or what umpire he's going to try to show up.
HA! you only say that cause secretly, every team wishes they had an AJ on their team. You dont have to admit it... I know...
Just to reitterate Jafidlers point on AJ, how about the fact that he's an awful fielder? Is there a more noodle armed catcher in baseball? I highly doubt it. The guy has allowed 61 SB already this season, that is ridiculous, how many runs does that add up to? This isn't just a single season trend either, he has never been able to stop even the most tepid and slow base runners from stealing bases.
I agree on the stats being a good metric for selecting players, and do think AJ is having a much better year than Varitek, just like everyone else, but overall I'd go with Pudge.
Yes, AJ does have a bad arm, but he is absolutely NOT a horrible fielder...thats just way off. He consitantly has one of the highest fielding percentages for his positions, and has had serveral errorless streaks, including a 150 game errorless streak that ended in 06. For a catcher not to allow a past ball in 150 starts? thats incredible.
also, you have to look at the fact that AJ has had to deal with notoriously slow deliveries in jon garland, jose contreras, gavin floyd and javier vazquez for much of his career. And anyone who understands baseball will admit stolen bases allowed are as much a pitching issue as they are catching.
if you look at his defensive stats this year beyond stolen bases, they are actually pretty impressive. He has the 3rd highest range factor for catchers who have caught 50 or more games (an everyday catcher in other words)
so... guys, look up the numbers... AJ is in the top 5 AL catchers in virtually every single category... offensively and defensively. Higher than pudge in every single category except stolen bases.
now, pudge is clearly one of the best catchers of all time, but this year, AJ and Joe Mauer are the 2 best catchers in the AL, they should be on the all star team. end of story.
not so fast, my friend. "best catcher" - if by that you mean at the plate. yeah, i agree. pudge got off to a terrible start this year. he was being platooned with brandon inge for several weeks while he got his swing back. (i believe he was also nursing some sort of injury.) he's been on a tear the last few weeks to get his average up to a respectable .280. but "best [insert position here]" to me is a game changer - someone who has skills that "normal" players just don't have. jose reyes immediately comes to mind for his speed, pudge for his throwing arm. these are the guys who i want to see in the all-star game. a.j. pierzynski is a serviceable catcher with offensive numbers that are good for his position, but nothing to write home about compared to a true hitter like joe mauer. even in his best years pierzynski is not exactly what i would call an all star.
can we all get together an agree that Kevin Youkillis has the ugliest swing in baseball? I hate that weird loose upper hand thing he does. Any other candidates?
"hey, ivan, remember the good ol' days?"
"ever heard of originality?"
well, i think you can make a case for either. its been a bummer of a year for ivan, if he and his team weren't off to a terrible start he could probably have made a more convincing candidate. no doubt he has the ability. and aj's move to second is a drawback when you look at voting for something like an all-star. still nobody says you have to be a complete player to make the team, (manny, i'm looking in your direction) i think aj has certainly helped the white sox more this year. He's calling for one of the best team pitching staffs in baseball this year which I think matters. meh...
look at it this way, both our catchers get to stay home and ice those knees. but varitek, what a joke. (this year)
who are your guys' final votes for? dye or longoria?
it seems like longoria is in ESPN's top ten every night, old man dye needs to start diving into the stands every night... get some more publicity, though buster olney did call him the AL Roster's biggest snub.
my vote for ugliest swing is craig counsell!
I'd go JD, he's put up big numbers for quite awhile, especially this year, combined with dominant defense. Longoria needs to wait his turn.
i don't think anyone here realizes that varitek was voted in by the players....
not the fans, not the manager, but by his fellow players.
so maybe they know something we don't...
although even as a sox fans i agree his stats are ugly..especially batting right now..
Anybody ever see Tony Bautista's swing? He was on the twins for a few weeks a season or two ago, hideous swing.
"Longoria needs to wait his turn."
you must be smoking crack... the kid is tearing up the league...
and on the subject of youkilis... he always looks like he's doing the pee pee dance while batting... fucking sit still you bald-headed fuck... and enough with the damn temper tantrums EVERY time that you don't get a hit...
and just for the record... the idea that pierzynski deserves it more than navarro is just plain insane...
Jeez, do we have another homer whose judgement is clouded by the worshiping of his own team's players?
Tearing up the league?
I agree the kid is playing very well for a ROOIKE, but what makes you think he deserves a spot on the all star team?
a .281 Batting average? 16HR & 52RBI? good numbers, but not exceptional for 3rd basemen in the AL this year... A-rod has a .323 BA, 18HR and 50RBI, and Lowell has a .297BA, 13HR and 54RBI. Lowell didn't even make the team, but if another 3rd basemen were to go, the spot should go to him.
Longoria's numbers aren't as good as Jermain Dyes either if you want to bother to do that comparison.
and neither arod or lowell can hold a candle to longo's defense...
lowell's numbers are nearly identical to longo's and evan didn't play the first month of the season...
taking bp as a kid when we wanted to put the funny swing on, we'd hit like this guy.
i'm with synergy. i can't even watch pukilis bat anymore. it's not the loose upper hand thing either, it's all that damn gyrating around likes he's sitting on the sybian. god it drives me fucking batty.
and yeah, that goatee is about the nastiest thing around. i heard he can store enough chowder in there to keep up with big papi's appetite after a week on the road...
craig counsell: the chimney sweep that missed a spot.
architphil
to say that lowell's defense isn't as good as langoria's is just ignorant...
we can agree that langoria is good defensively, but lowell has been great
defensively for years...
you're watching alot of the rays, but not alot of any other team apparently
or i should say 'can't hold a candle to langoria's d'...is ignorant
or just overstatement to make some kind of point.
mighty...
can you just stop with the stupid bs about the red sox.
noone is defaming the yankees and making stupid nicknames for jeter or arod
if you're trying to prove a point that you're some kind of die hard yankee
fan you've made it..but you've also proven you're what i see as a typical
yankee fan, which i didn't think was the case...
this thread has seemed to be pretty good baseball discussion...why add the
stupid little barbs?
larslarson, don't take it personal, he was just playing on the fact that Youkilis has a funny looking swing, which I brought up.
Remember Bagwell's dumbass swing/stance?
that's the funniest thing that i've read here in quite a while...
bagwell always looked like he was taking a dump...
i remember doing the julio franco as a kid too...
and one last thing...
Jeez, do we have another homer whose judgement is clouded by the worshiping of his own team's players?
says the guy from chicago who's shilling for dye...
anyways, i think that the all-star game is about everyone getting to see the most exciting players in the league... and in my opinion, day in and day out, longo is a much more exciting guy to watch than lowell or dye or any of those other guys...
i mean c'mon, don freakin' zimmer, who is like 400 years old, says longo is the best 3rd baseman that he's seen play...
I'm not a sox (white or red) fan, I just happen to live in Chicago. I'm a diehard twins fan. For evidence, see the above discussion I had with Letdown in which I challenged his ideas of Gavin Floyd, AJ Pierzynski and Scott Linebrink being potential all stars.
You only think Longoria is so exciting because he's your player, same with Zimmer, whose judgement is suspect at best, and now happens to work for the Rays, big deal. Coaches, GM's and Owners routinelly praise players in their own organizations as the best player since.....blah blah... lets see it on the field and batting. If we're going to go with "excitement" as a major criteria, I say we get Postal's pick, Jose Conseco, along with AJ pierzynski, Roger Clemens, Pedor Martinez, Carlos Zambrano, and every other angry hard ass out there and let them have a massive steroid fueled brawl.
By the way, Jermain Dye is hitting .308, has 19 HRs, 52 RBIS, has made only 1 error all season, and has a cannon arm and has never gotten any attention his entire career. Like I said before, Longoria can wait his turn. In case you were wondering, Carlos Quentin started out really hot, but at this point you could even make an arguement that Dye actually deserves his spot, he is hitting 35 points higher with the same number of home runs.
architphil
i think that longoria (apologies for previous misspellings) is going to be a great player for years...just feel like you're discounting lowell's play.
i'm not sure how we measure excitement..but lowell has been a consistent player for a few years now...he has a much better range factor than longoria and better fielding percentage...he may, in other words, make longoria's 'spectacular' plays look routine...but i see lowell play every day...and i don't see longo..but i feel like we had this same conversation last year about delmon young and pedroia...the stats just don't back the argument is all i'm sayin.
synergy
the youkilis comment is pretty funny, but it's not the only comment i was talking about...'blowsox', overrated chowderheads, youkilis having enough chowder in his beard...blah blah blah. every single post had some little typically boring unclever nickname...yankees fans like to claim that they don't care about the red sox and 'talk to me in october' and whatever...when all i ever see is that their fans are just as obsessed about our team as we are about theirs...although not as much recently since the sox have been better.
i'm being oversensitive...but if he wants a reason for why people hate yankee's fans...that's it. the sox aren't overrated...they may have a few undeserving players in the all star game (i would like to see a few more rays since they have the best record in the AL), but they've had their starting roster in place for 12 of 90 games, have played more road games than any other team in baseball and have had one of the toughest schedules...and they still have the second best record in the AL...i think that's respectable...but that's just me. all that with the 4th highest payroll in baseball...70 million less than the yanks.
Longoria for sure will be a great player, hes having a terrifically impressive rookie year, but im in agreement with those above who say his numbers are not the best out there.
Personally, im a massive white sox fan, but i can respect a good young player when they come around. Right now though, Jermaine Dye has been absolutely huge this year, and he has the numbers to prove it. Not to mention the fact that he has been consistantly one of the best right fielders in the AL for years now. He's an all around player, a leader for his team and an all around good dude. I hope he gets in, though i think it will be Longoria in the end unfortunately...
So, who here agrees with me that the Milwaukee Brewers just put themselves in position to be the WC team that makes the world series?
any all-star team that doesn't include barry bonds is a disappointment...guess i'll just have to wait for next year
what is WC team? I think it's a huge move, though I'm not sure if it will be enough, my money is still on the cubs winning the division, though I'm not sure about how deep in the playoffs they will go.
wc= wild card
and i don't think it's unfair to say that the rays deserve to get rewarded for their first half by having another member on the all star team...
i know from the past how frustrating it is to have a team in first place with one or two players in the all star game...a team's performance should be somewhat important.
ahh oops, well then my response doesn't make too much sense, i do think they have put themselves in a very good spot to win the WC, and they will be tough for anyone that faces them in the playoffs.
The Rays performance arguement doesn't work, the white sox are also on top of their division, so Jermaine Dye is still viable.
but the rays have the best record in baseball..in a tougher division...
(chicago would be third in the AL east)
o ok.....i must have forgotten......the east division is always the greatest......please forgive my plebian brain for thinking otherwise...... go my yankee overlords go!
no synergy...i am a red sox fan...but it's true at the moment.
with an unbalanced schedule the white sox get to play more games against their division.
just by record they would be the third team in the AL east...i wasn't being condescending, it's just a fact. and i think we can both agree the tigers are having an off year...the royals aren't that good and cleveland is awful...why is it bad for a fan of the white sox or the AL central to admit that they're not as good a division right now?
rays > white sox
red sox > minnesota
new york > detroit
and i'm not someone who would say that every year just because i'm a fan of a team in the AL east.
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