Do you know or have you seen professionals who advocate sustainable design solutions in the built environments they create but not in the way they consume food?
what was your inspiration to get LEED AP? was it a passion for sustainability? Mandate?
I am thinking a holistic health conscious approach being followed by a team helps in leading to it's success. Even Olympians know how important it is to treat their bodies and what they put in them when training.
How can you justify making a building that performs but neglect your own vessel or any other excesses? I doubt taste is it, because that is acquired from exposure.
How can people justify it? We're only just becoming aware of a lot of these issues. I support anyone who does what they can, when they can. We're only programmed to make so many changes to our lives at a time: dieters have found for years that when they make really radical changes they can't stick to them, and I firmly believe our whole lives are like that. So if somebody is focused on changing their workplace habits right now, I support that, and know that they are more likely than someone who doesn't build green to change their personal habits later.
Most of the people around here who eat vegetarian/"healthy" are also the ones who are out sick the most (by a fairly significant margin since I've thought to keep track of it - nearly 2:1)
While injecting all sorts of nastiness into our food (both animal & vegetable flesh) is bad, if meat was not there to be eaten it'd be poisonous to us.
In short - nasty chemicals & GM food = poison.
Cow au naturale = tasty.
I buy an organically-raised pig, slaughtered and frozen, from a local farmer every year. This year I also bought several chickens from the same farmer.
When I started eating local, hand-raised meat, I discovered that supermarket/feedlot/agribusiness meat was kinda gross. (Same goes for produce, of course, but it's really only locally available in summer and fall.) It's the antibiotics and growth hormones that scare me most, and I despise animal cruelty. No, I don't think killing an animal to eat it is cruel, as long as it's done with minimal pain and fear to the animal. Typical mass feedlot/slaughterhouse treatment is cruelty, IMO.
But I do still eat a burger at a bar on occasion and enjoy the hell out of it.
Well, I could say the same about 'green' designers who drive every day, or don't compost. But really, why pick such a specific topic, insist that everyone should already be doing perfectly at it, and then simply declare that it's "not fine" if you "don't care" about the topic, just because we don't all lift you on our shoulders and take up the battle cry immediately? Isn't there at least room for people to discuss this intelligently, perhaps sharing tips on what specific items constitute the worst offenses, or are easiest to change your habits regarding? I guess I just don't see how the comment quoted above furthers the discussion in any way.
We could just eat other people
Then we'd have our meat, and deplete.
Think about it.
One big cannibalistic family of self-righteous architects, with no clients.
Becoming LEED AP and then feeling the frustration over what a sham most of the green building movement is actually prompted me to make a lot of changes to my personal habits that I hadn't considered previously. Although I've cut down my meat consumption by about half from where I was a couple years ago, going completely meatless hasn't worked well for me (or more specifically, my tummy).
Frankly I'm tired of those of us who are aware of the issues and are making lifestyle changes to reduce our environmental footprint constantly being browbeaten by people like Anti as if we're not "true believers" just because we haven't made the one lifestyle change they hold sacred (even when we've made five others that balance it out).
My thinking is something like LB, only I don't buy a whole pig every year. Maybe if I had a big enough fridge and had a family who could eat that much meat... instead I don't eat meat very often and rarely cook it at home (due to the hatred of cooking meat and fish in a tiny 1-room apartment that will smell like cooked food FOREVER). But I'm not going to nitpick if I'm at a restaurant/bar/bbq. I also attribute all of this to personal preference, and do not confer my culinary choices with moral superiority over those who "don't think about it." I used to, but that was a pretty wretched way to live.
And crowbert - you have a faulty assumption of cause/effect. Perhaps people who are naturally inclined to be ill frequently also pay closer attention to their diets and are more inclined to make an effort to consume only what our medical establishment has deemed "Nutritious" foods. Maybe they'd be ill as frequently if they ate like you did, maybe they'd be ill even more. Maybe some of them really are just obsessives with a borderline eating disorder. There's no way to know.
I don't recall saying that it was THE cause. But I would say that it shows evidence against eating veggie/"healthy" automatically makes you healthier - as some would want you to believe.
But I am more in line with SurfaceS and 4arch. Enough with the hating vegans! More with the farm-raised (i.e. on an actual farm) tasty critters!
I've been a vegetarian since the day I was born. Meat just looks disgusting to me, without the obvious moral and health issues.
Being a veggie doesn't make you healthier immediately, but you do choose healthier things by default.
We also tend to be a ton more conscious of choices, which helps.
As a side bonus, I spend about half what my carnivorous friends do on food, especially when I eat at a nice restaurant. I also buy all organic and mostly shop at places like Whole Foods.
FYI - I don't get sick but once every few years. Never had any immunity shots/vaccines either. ;-)
its quite a sad thing that god put us on a planet to eat each other
and its some people's fantasies to be eaten. i think that was the sickest sweetest thing i've come across and i understand it because i sometimes want to disappear into a little virtual comma on the pillows of lovers. to disappear, being personally sacrificed to intimacy and not to an idea or a cause or a mass...is there a difference between a starving mother who lets her child eat the last piece of bread and another who gives her body to her child as a meal? i don't like pain, but the idea of disappearing that way...thats cool.
something drastic has change in this anti character... i remember him/her being around a long while, but i dont remember such a barage of self righteous and vitriolic rhetoric... anyway... carry on
marmkid yes i do try i bike 1/2 the time i drive only Veggie Waste Oil
i minimize my elec. use and offset with solar
i compost everything
grow as much of my own organic produce as possible
trace™ me too i have never had a bite of meat in my life and i think it proves allot, scientifically. I am amongst to my vigorous and healthy of my peers and coworkers.
While i do understand very well that many Veg people don't know enough about balanced nutrition and diet. more than 3/4 of vegan food is dead(cooked over 120C) empty carbs, aka junk food.
wow, you are amazing
i take it back, you have every right to put down everyone here for not being as amazing as you
i havent been sick in over a year
can i join your awesome club?
i take the train every day to work, but unfortunately i dont use veggie oil in my car for the 5 miles i drive it a week
i guess that means i'm out
Anti, you have yet to respond to the critique that you were being antagonistic with your previous posts ("not fine", etc.). Those posts don't fit with the ones where you say that you are just trying to be an example... because it seems a lot more like you are trying to badger and put down and shame people until they do things your way. That is probably why serious discussion has not resulted from this thread.
So I'll ask a question to try and get things onto a better track: if I, as someone who eats considerably less meat than average, grow a few things in my garden that my brown thumbs are capable of (herbs, lettuce, etc.), and buys local when the opportunity is moderately convenient, were to do one single, simple thing to reduce my food impact, what should it be? No more burgers? No more bananas? Add tomatoes to my garden? No more high fructose corn? What?
I have heard that if you do one thing to improve the food you eat, its to cut out High Fructose Corn Syrup. But its rough - its in a lot of easily available shit. I slip up sometimes.
marm, I meant environmental impact-wise. But I'm willing to accept the premise that the corn economy is harmful to the environment, so still feel that high-fructose corn syrup is a contender...
doomed: green professional w/o green diet?
Do you know or have you seen professionals who advocate sustainable design solutions in the built environments they create but not in the way they consume food?
I have and it is disastrous.
i am a leed ap who loves...........
murder, environmental racism, intestinal inflammation, simple proteins overdose, prostate/colon cancer, factory farming, cholesterol, bovine growth hormones? what and why?
yes, but damn, does it taste goooooood.
what was your inspiration to get LEED AP? was it a passion for sustainability? Mandate?
I am thinking a holistic health conscious approach being followed by a team helps in leading to it's success. Even Olympians know how important it is to treat their bodies and what they put in them when training.
How can you justify making a building that performs but neglect your own vessel or any other excesses? I doubt taste is it, because that is acquired from exposure.
doomed: self righteous puritanism with no sense of irony or humor?
;D
How can people justify it? We're only just becoming aware of a lot of these issues. I support anyone who does what they can, when they can. We're only programmed to make so many changes to our lives at a time: dieters have found for years that when they make really radical changes they can't stick to them, and I firmly believe our whole lives are like that. So if somebody is focused on changing their workplace habits right now, I support that, and know that they are more likely than someone who doesn't build green to change their personal habits later.
thank you 765!
i thought Olympians ate McDonalds
Carl Lewis , Vegan
Bo Jackson - Burger King and KFC
i guess some people don't care, it's not fine.
gosh jalfider, that looks like shit
Most of the people around here who eat vegetarian/"healthy" are also the ones who are out sick the most (by a fairly significant margin since I've thought to keep track of it - nearly 2:1)
While injecting all sorts of nastiness into our food (both animal & vegetable flesh) is bad, if meat was not there to be eaten it'd be poisonous to us.
In short - nasty chemicals & GM food = poison.
Cow au naturale = tasty.
sameold, perhaps this one is more to your liking...
I buy an organically-raised pig, slaughtered and frozen, from a local farmer every year. This year I also bought several chickens from the same farmer.
When I started eating local, hand-raised meat, I discovered that supermarket/feedlot/agribusiness meat was kinda gross. (Same goes for produce, of course, but it's really only locally available in summer and fall.) It's the antibiotics and growth hormones that scare me most, and I despise animal cruelty. No, I don't think killing an animal to eat it is cruel, as long as it's done with minimal pain and fear to the animal. Typical mass feedlot/slaughterhouse treatment is cruelty, IMO.
But I do still eat a burger at a bar on occasion and enjoy the hell out of it.
Total Entries: 33
Total Comments: 1434
07/28/08 16:52
i guess some people don't care, it's not fine.
Well, I could say the same about 'green' designers who drive every day, or don't compost. But really, why pick such a specific topic, insist that everyone should already be doing perfectly at it, and then simply declare that it's "not fine" if you "don't care" about the topic, just because we don't all lift you on our shoulders and take up the battle cry immediately? Isn't there at least room for people to discuss this intelligently, perhaps sharing tips on what specific items constitute the worst offenses, or are easiest to change your habits regarding? I guess I just don't see how the comment quoted above furthers the discussion in any way.
We could just eat other people
Then we'd have our meat, and deplete.
Think about it.
One big cannibalistic family of self-righteous architects, with no clients.
Becoming LEED AP and then feeling the frustration over what a sham most of the green building movement is actually prompted me to make a lot of changes to my personal habits that I hadn't considered previously. Although I've cut down my meat consumption by about half from where I was a couple years ago, going completely meatless hasn't worked well for me (or more specifically, my tummy).
Frankly I'm tired of those of us who are aware of the issues and are making lifestyle changes to reduce our environmental footprint constantly being browbeaten by people like Anti as if we're not "true believers" just because we haven't made the one lifestyle change they hold sacred (even when we've made five others that balance it out).
My thinking is something like LB, only I don't buy a whole pig every year. Maybe if I had a big enough fridge and had a family who could eat that much meat... instead I don't eat meat very often and rarely cook it at home (due to the hatred of cooking meat and fish in a tiny 1-room apartment that will smell like cooked food FOREVER). But I'm not going to nitpick if I'm at a restaurant/bar/bbq. I also attribute all of this to personal preference, and do not confer my culinary choices with moral superiority over those who "don't think about it." I used to, but that was a pretty wretched way to live.
And crowbert - you have a faulty assumption of cause/effect. Perhaps people who are naturally inclined to be ill frequently also pay closer attention to their diets and are more inclined to make an effort to consume only what our medical establishment has deemed "Nutritious" foods. Maybe they'd be ill as frequently if they ate like you did, maybe they'd be ill even more. Maybe some of them really are just obsessives with a borderline eating disorder. There's no way to know.
I don't recall saying that it was THE cause. But I would say that it shows evidence against eating veggie/"healthy" automatically makes you healthier - as some would want you to believe.
But I am more in line with SurfaceS and 4arch. Enough with the hating vegans! More with the farm-raised (i.e. on an actual farm) tasty critters!
Lb, can't wait for the pig roast!
anti
so are you saying that everything you do in your life is 100% green and sustainable?
I've been a vegetarian since the day I was born. Meat just looks disgusting to me, without the obvious moral and health issues.
Being a veggie doesn't make you healthier immediately, but you do choose healthier things by default.
We also tend to be a ton more conscious of choices, which helps.
As a side bonus, I spend about half what my carnivorous friends do on food, especially when I eat at a nice restaurant. I also buy all organic and mostly shop at places like Whole Foods.
FYI - I don't get sick but once every few years. Never had any immunity shots/vaccines either. ;-)
its quite a sad thing that god put us on a planet to eat each other
and its some people's fantasies to be eaten. i think that was the sickest sweetest thing i've come across and i understand it because i sometimes want to disappear into a little virtual comma on the pillows of lovers. to disappear, being personally sacrificed to intimacy and not to an idea or a cause or a mass...is there a difference between a starving mother who lets her child eat the last piece of bread and another who gives her body to her child as a meal? i don't like pain, but the idea of disappearing that way...thats cool.
a kiss, a nibble, a bite, a chew, a swallow
i eat healthy while occasionally having a burger or a steak
doesnt make me a bad person by any means
you dont need to be a vegan or a vegetarian to be a good person or a healthy person
or a green person
something drastic has change in this anti character... i remember him/her being around a long while, but i dont remember such a barage of self righteous and vitriolic rhetoric... anyway... carry on
i wonder if he walks by McDonalds and yells at anyone who orders a burger
!
i think im gonna get some taco bell for lunch... good god that sh_t is delicious
4arch i suggest fermented foods and pro-biotics to you.
tell us how your life is 100% sustainable Anti
and post a picture of yourself so we can all be amazed at how healthy and perfect you are
marmkid yes i do try i bike 1/2 the time i drive only Veggie Waste Oil
i minimize my elec. use and offset with solar
i compost everything
grow as much of my own organic produce as possible
trace™ me too i have never had a bite of meat in my life and i think it proves allot, scientifically. I am amongst to my vigorous and healthy of my peers and coworkers.
While i do understand very well that many Veg people don't know enough about balanced nutrition and diet. more than 3/4 of vegan food is dead(cooked over 120C) empty carbs, aka junk food.
same here with the only sick about once every 2 years and also i have never had shots.
wow, you are amazing
i take it back, you have every right to put down everyone here for not being as amazing as you
i havent been sick in over a year
can i join your awesome club?
i take the train every day to work, but unfortunately i dont use veggie oil in my car for the 5 miles i drive it a week
i guess that means i'm out
much like Buckminster Fuller said you can be an example of the change you would like to see but you can never force anybody to do anything different.
This is a personal ethical choice and it effects everybody in the world, the choices that we each make.
it is in no way a put down, if anything it raises the bar on what it means to be sustainable in the face of many challenges.
can you tell us how that computer you are posting on is 100% sustainable too?
and yes, you put down a lot of people here (though i dont think anyone took the insults seriously, considering the way they were presented)
"i guess some people don't care, it's not fine."
actually, the way i eat and live my life is my own choice
and the fact that i am not a vegetarian is 100% fine, no matter what you have to say
rather than being offended, defensive and critical you and i could work together to see the problems and come up with solutions
what do you envision as a more ecological PC?
i would consider that, if you werent offending and being critical of everyone besides yourself
contrary to what you think and are portraying yourself as, you are no better than everyone else here
there is a way to a solution that doesnt involve you blaming the world for not being perfect
and i dont believe there is a more ecological PC, at least not one readily available right now
one way is to use your PC less, maybe spend less time on archinect?
unfortunately, that one is like the burgers to me
i like it more than saving the earth right now
interesting point, marmkid. i do believe the computer will kill us much faster than animal proteins.
happy surfing...
my point is that in this day and age, there are too many problems out there for any one person to be perfectly 100% sustainable
therefore, no one is in a position to put down anyone else because they dont meet their level
to claim to be better than other people because you are a vegetarian is ridiculous
Anti, you have yet to respond to the critique that you were being antagonistic with your previous posts ("not fine", etc.). Those posts don't fit with the ones where you say that you are just trying to be an example... because it seems a lot more like you are trying to badger and put down and shame people until they do things your way. That is probably why serious discussion has not resulted from this thread.
So I'll ask a question to try and get things onto a better track: if I, as someone who eats considerably less meat than average, grow a few things in my garden that my brown thumbs are capable of (herbs, lettuce, etc.), and buys local when the opportunity is moderately convenient, were to do one single, simple thing to reduce my food impact, what should it be? No more burgers? No more bananas? Add tomatoes to my garden? No more high fructose corn? What?
imagine if everyone did that one thing, the impact it would have
my attempt at growing tomatoes and basil in my garden is starting to show progress
we have had 2 tomatoes this week that my wife has been able to eat
not bad
i feel pretty good about that
I have heard that if you do one thing to improve the food you eat, its to cut out High Fructose Corn Syrup. But its rough - its in a lot of easily available shit. I slip up sometimes.
Its beef.
do you mean to improve the food you eat, healthwise? or sustainable/ environmental impact-wise?
Snapple? High fructose corn syrup? The white man's poison? Read about it... it'll kill you.
marm, I meant environmental impact-wise. But I'm willing to accept the premise that the corn economy is harmful to the environment, so still feel that high-fructose corn syrup is a contender...
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