I have been troubled by some of the people Ive employed coming from big firms, well known firms, who are deficient in their skills with people and detailing. It says to me that the firms they worked for took no role in mentoring these folks many of whom were very diligent but ignorant of the profession and how it operates. Mind you some of these people had experiance at places like OWPP and SOM Chicago. Though some may get their licenses I highly doubt they would be able to pull off a building from start to finish. I see this as a triple failure of first, the education and second, the development of new architects and third the individual's unwillingness to see the reality of the situation. I have always tried to engage, imbed and let some control to my employees on my projects. I give them some ownership of their work because keeps them interested. As the boss its my job to step in when they are heading for trouble, burning hours or drowning. But if you dont let go of the leash, they will never learn to run.
I can't help but notice that the fundamental structural problems with the profession, discussed with clarity, insight and sympathy in Robert Gutman's "Architectural Practice", haven't entered into this discussion.
To address only the most obviously applicable: this grappling across generations for SATISFYING jobs in Architecture is nothing new, and has causes deeper than whether boomers are selfish or insecure or x'ers are incapable of leadership. We have schools turning out too many architectural grads, and we build expectations about a artistic or social role that way too few people get to feel anything close to.
Which is not to say that these generational factors, as well as the state of the economy at a given moment, don't overlay these deeper problems and exert influence on opportunities for the young- they do. Others here have fleshed out quite a few of those concerns well.
Changing the fundamentals would take years of concentrated effort, an effort I judge so close to impossible that we must just muddle through, as James Fallows recently suggested we must do as a nation, in light of our broken form of government (see the last Atlantic). If so, let's at least see it for what it is and skip the spewing that started this thread.
the reason I complain so much is that your behavior isn't the norm. I mean, I can't even remember the last time I had a performance review.
Agreed. I would love to work at a firm that treats their staff like Blue Goose does. Performance reviews or just 1 on 1 time with the boss is often few and far between. I do admit though that I'm often much happier after I have an unscheduled meeting with the boss. I'd encourage everyone to take initiative with talking to your superiors. It probably won't change office procedure, but it's better than reading Archinect and getting angry.
It says to me that the firms they worked for took no role in mentoring these folks many of whom were very diligent but ignorant of the profession and how it operates.
I have first hand experience of this working with massive corporate accounts in a large firm. A lot of the work is more assembly line production work, which is terrible for teaching an intern the ropes, but quite stable in a bad economy (knock on wood).
My IDP internship was at a mid-sized firm that did more "traditional" architecture. Left after 4 years mostly for the $$$ and nothing else. Looking back I highly respect what that firm did for me. Odds are they earned very little to no profit on my work, but I did get to truly shadow my boss and was mentored very well. I fell back on much of that experience when taking the ARE's and in hindsight feel the low pay was well worth the experience.
Looking back to the late 90s when my best candidates for succession left, it was probably for the better. If they would have bought in, they would have bought in at the start of a 10 year downturn for my firm, and I cant say if they would have made a difference in sales. We had a slight blip in the mid 2000's but that was also at a lower fee rate and less experianced staff. All in all a young architect needs to look at the firm they are investing in - so the clients only want to talk to the name on the door or you are owner on paper only but not in perception? Think about that. Currently Im a one man shop and I dont see the need going forward for employees beyond part time or pairing up with other firms / sole proprietors, but if someone wanted to buy in I'd be glad to sell.
Seeing as how Architects have slipped to lower middle class for those under 40 living paycheck to paycheck with 2 income households its hard to make it to the status in society where you actually meet and befriend those in decision making capabilities. Is a $55,000 / year staff architect ever going to be able to run with rainmakers? Doubtful. And if they did score a good lead? They'd kill it and eat it themselves.
Makes a valid point. I'm not so sure young Architect's have ever been paid enough to have high class status, but odds are that someone will spend most of their time meeting people in the same socio-economic circle as themselves.
As Architects are put under great financial pressure with declining salaries and huge debt loads more and more of us will probably be out meeting people at the bowling alley bar, and not the country club.
toaster - with the highest respect - this is "victim" talk. if you can't - or won't - move to another, more supportive, firm, then I think you have to adopt personal strategies to overcome these obstacles.
it's your career -- if you don't move it forward, you can't expect someone else, or the firm, to move it forward for you.
don't worry - I'm moving myself forward. I'm just speaking from past experiences.
"punching-in" is a defensive strategy in order to survive the jobs that are less than stellar until you can move on to someplace else. some people are able to move on, but most people end up completely checking out - IMO - they aren't lost causes though...
I implore firms that have too many of these types of individuals to really take a deep look at how you manage your staff and what kinds of professional development incentives you offer. The answer cannot be just to hire more "go-getters" who remind you of yourself because even the most ambitious individuals can have their spirits crushed.
Do your work.
Do it right. (Learn how to put a functioning building together—that’s the whole point.)
Do it on time. (Deadlines are not just arbitrary obstacles that bosses create to annoy you.)
Take ownership in your work and pride in it. (This is a way of differentiating yourself.)
Have a great attitude.
Get registered. (It shows incentive and opens doors for you.)
Get LEED. (Stay up-to-date on everything.)
Learn the latest computer programs. (It’s a competitive reality.)
Learn to work in groups. (Cooperate, listen to others, share the work, the challenges and the responsibility.)
Have a great attitude.
Do the stuff no one else wants to do. (Sorry.)
Without complaint.
Have a great attitude.
Dress professional. (This old fashioned, old fogey concept is still important.)
Look professional. (I may not mind the snake tattooed around your neck, but my clients might.)
Act professional. (If you Mom didn’t teach you manners, find someone who will.)
Act like an adult. (Conquer shyness, don’t whine or interrupt, avoid horseplay.)
Get over your fantasy that you will ever just sit around dreaming up great design and wearing funky eyeglasses. (We had that fantasy, too.)
Think like a businessman. (You can’t run a firm without considering money.)
Have a great attitude.
Partners do project management, staffing, budgeting, marketing, negotiating, proposals, bill collecting, etc. too—be prepared for that. (Get over it.)
Learn how to spell and write. (It reflects on your intelligence, education, and attention to detail.)
Learn to communicate. (Listening, explaining, persuading, selling, and listening.)
Learn how to speak comfortably in front of clients and groups.
Always do whatever you can to make your firm look good.
Have a great attitude.
Be proactive. (Bosses will notice who steps up to the plate.)
Become a LEADER!
Re-read all of BlueGoose’s comments.
Have a good attitude.
Be patient. You time will come. Times are bad for all of us.
I just want to say that I am eternally grateful that principals and other senior people take the time to post - your perspective is greatly needed and appreciated. I understand that much of my hyperbole is due to inexperience, but I hope that this dialogue will at least allow you to hear what us "kids" are actually thinking. I've definitely learned something.
at my office, the entire staff is very talented, hard working, and most are natural leaders. the problem is, there are so many principles (boomer age) fighting for control that we have very little room to grow. it's not simply a matter of not 'looking professional'.
Develop all those skills and qualities and be prepared to jump on an opportunity. The ranks of people ahead of you will thin. You can't predict the future but you can try to be the best prepared.
Also, enjoy working with all those talented, hard working co-workers. You are fortunate to be in that situation. You should try to learn everything you can from every one of them.
It looks like those baby boomer principals (note the spelling) did something right if your staff is so great. Remember that when you become a principal.
Great discussion here... Appreciate the diverse insights and perspectives across generations here...
One thought I'd add (from the perspective of someone relatively new to the profession... Late gen x, early gen y): there is alot if discussion about the skillsets, diverse criteria required to be a leader, but my own gut inclination is that in reality, this is a team sport rather than one driven primarily by star players... Maybe this is sort of a naive or idealistic point of view but I don't much like the idea that it is a game where individuals compete for movement up a ladder of succession... I think an effective team, the best work and subsequently the greatest success for an organization comes from the shared and mutual ownership and efforts by an organization as a whole... If there is a culture of comradery and mentorship, I think this doesn't necessarily mean priming particular individuals for succession in a jack of all trades sense but rather the development of a common stake in the work, each individual bringing their talents to the table, being able to trust one another and having the humility also... Respect and trust of teammates so that one can recognize ones own strengths and weaknesses as well as look to teammates for their strengths... I'm not suggesting that people should be pigeonholed into specific skillsets or talents, quite the opposite: if a team is a tight unit that is invested in a common outcome, each member of the team learns from others, and each member will have the desire to support the growth of the team as a whole, share and develop talents broadly, so for example, one person may have remarkable talents in marketing for example but in mentoring others and sharing that knowledge, that marketing skill or knowledge is never his sole responsability or used as a personal wedge to support his or her place in succession, but instead forms a basis for actually making the firm better. The same would apply to all skillsets or knowledge... If common investment in the success of the firm is made, knowledge grows exponentially and successes are shared. Time punching becomes secondary, it's the end result that defines satisfaction generally...
Based on this, the ideal leader in my mind is not someone who is necessarily a one person jack of all trades, but more critically, is a great leader of people... Has integrity, an inspirational manager, genuinely cares about the well being and growth and comradery of the team under his/her leadership, must be fully invested and inspire common investment in the success of the firm, which entails an example of hard work and willingness to carry the firm on his/her back in order to earn the respect and trust and loyalty of the whole organization, as well as defining a standard of professionalism that will translate into a great reputation with clients, consultants, contractors etc... In other words, more than any single skillset, I think people skills and hard work are essential... Being able to bring out the best in people because your team shares in successes and trusts in your leadership because they trust in your work ethic and integrity and that in turn means that their own work ethic and integrity will be returned...
Maybe that's obvious, but in my mind work is ultimately a social endeavor... Without the ability to win people or to develop a team work ethic and social atmosphere in your organization, you may just prep talented people but what is to say they will follow and not take that knowledge and just leave? I think what keeps people on board is the team, because they love the people they work with, and are willing to take a bullet for the team, and can totally depend and trust in their teammates... Maybe that's a bit exaggerated, but I think individual talent is not enough...
Long story short, I think I would rather be a part of a great team that shares in successes and works as a tight unit... Maybe that means it's not so important seniority... Ideally, I think the structure of the organization should be more horizontal, not driven by hierarchy primarily... I think if the management can build that kind of organization, succession becomes secondary to shared growth... It actually relieves pressure? Becomes about the work over politics?
I don't know... Or maybe I'm just not fit for climbing corporate ladders... Maybe my outlook will change after 10 years of working in an office...
i think the point that i was making is that this a (great) discussion regarding all of the political, financial and cultural reasons that shape the current context of the architecture profession. your post seemed to assume that folks weren't 'trying hard enough'. this is gross simplification and assumption of the problems facing architects in all different stages of their careers. if only life was as simple as being cheerful and dressing appropriately.
One of the concepts lost on the younger set is that of timing. A lot of success is the above mentioned characteristics IN ADDITION to good timing. Being experienced in retail renovations at the exact time a broker your working with on a project is also involved in a major mall deal, or being attached to a property that gets sold to a major out of state developer who needs a local. This is really the secret of Luck - the intersection of preparedness and opportunity. Sadly, life isnt fair, and not everyone gets lucky and this is the hardest pill to swallow.
Maybe my outlook will change after 10 years of working in an office...
Mine did. I was more idealistic about the profession as a student/recent graduate intern. At the time I thought the sky was the limit and with hard work I could move up...quickly.
A few years in when the long hours and hard work weren't turning into significant pay raises or bonuses I started to feel a tinge of cynicism.
With a few job moves I found optimism again, but then late in 2008 when things started slowing down management became much more insular, at least from my perspective. Previous advancements seemed to evaporate right with the work load. Job hopping also was no longer an option. It wasn't hard to become very cynical about the profession. Still am in many respects.
All in all, it's upsetting that I'm not where I wanted to be at. 10+ years is a significant amount of time to invest in any profession. Friends and family in different careers have experience major promotions and big moves in the same time period.
But Architecture isn't like the corporate world. When a firm needs a new senior designer they don't put a posting on the company intranet and interview internal candidates that apply. Nor are new management positions often created to elevate someone that has earned senority, but little else.
No, we have to be hand picked from within, usually without knowing really what qualities senior staff are looking for. Or, we have to build a stellar portfolio and hope to get noticed by a competitor and hired away into a senior position (most common way I know of people moving up). Then again, much of that portfolio and external contacts you make are at the will of the managers handling staffing.
Back in the late 90's that bright eyed student intern didn't expect to be partner by 2010 but was expecting more. Sure, the current economy is partly to blame, but spending 10 years in this profession over several different firms I've yet to see anyone promoted minus a few senior outside hires.
So, yes, your outlook probably will change, just as you will change.
With a few job moves I found optimism again, but then late in 2008 when things started slowing down management became much more insular, at least from my perspective. Previous advancements seemed to evaporate right with the work load. Job hopping also was no longer an option. It wasn't hard to become very cynical about the profession. Still am in many respects.
I appreciate your point of view... It's been a sad year for our profession I think across the board... Has been a struggle for me too, not to grow cynical, as projects disappeared and friends and mentors, project teams experienced multiple rounds of layoffs over the course of the year... (I was laid off last year as well)...
I think one of the things that keeps me going though is the people I've worked with, and the experiences I'm acculmulating... We know this is a cyclical industry and it won't be a straight career run or a single job for life, that over the course of an architect's career, we will probably change offices more than a couple times... But something I think we can keep with us, that doesn't get lost is the relationships we develop, friendships we make along the way, the experiences and knowledge that accumulate over the course of our careers...
Also, unlike many other professions, there's another thing that we have as a continuous thread tying our different job experiences together: our portfolios... The portfolio accumulates even if we need to make a move to a new office, it sort of develops as a continuous document of progress... the work, skillsets and experiences we've accumulated, the portfolio is something tangible representing a body of work...
It's probably not such a bad thing to gain experiences in many different offices over the course of a career, since what we do, our project experiences never really go away, and in trying something new, we can gain some diversity in experience and meet new interesting people along the way...
At the end of the day, even if I might not be able to point at as many major promotions as my family or friends in finance or the corporate world or whatever, maybe I'll be able to point at a more interesting diverse body of work, interesting experiences, and things I've accomplished with others that made a difference... At a minimum, I'd like to enjoy my work, and the people I work with...
I've been thinking about this thread for a few days and, at one level, I find it somewhat troubling.
I know many people of my generation who entered architecture precisly because they found the work compelling and the idea of doing that sort of work for the rest of their lives was appealing.
I think the real question that we ought to be asking is not:
"should the boomers retire?"
but
"why would a firm keep anybody - no matter their age - if they're not making a contribution consistent with their compensation?"
IMO, the rewards of employment always should be tied directly to contribution. OK - I recognize that sometimes in a small firm, the founder may be past his prime but still disinclined to retire. Those cases are easy to identify and, if one wishes, avoid.
But, isn't this really a business mangement issue - not one rooted in the generation wars. To tell the truth, I've seen lots of 20-somethings and 30-somethings over the year who were worthless TOO,
hah! a bloggers at architect mag noticed this thread! the comments are really interesting in how they represent a different view point then the archinecteurs posting here.
I started this thread, not to challenge the folks in their prime running a successful practice (ie in their late 40s & 50s), but to talk about transition opportunities when and where retirements are anticipated.
Over in the ivory tower, there seems to be a greater ability to step off stage without worrying about the nitty-gritty of selling a practice. I have two colleagues starting a multi-year phased retirement into emeritus status. Versus in the practice that I left last summer has several principals that returned from retirement and who don't look like they will leave anytime soon.
No offense Barry, but academia and practice are not at all comparable. One has to produce from it's labor and cunning, the other is supported, in most cases, by the public's willingness to fund it hence the "greater ability to step off stage without worrying about the nitty-gritty of selling a practice". I suspect in many states, the looming deficits will be greatly reducing the ease of transition into "Emeritus" status, whatever that is.
bRink - totally agree... even though it doesn't seem it - I am also generally pretty positive about the profession, the people within it, and the things I've gotten to experience so far in my career.
I'm also starting to wonder if the 30-somethings are simply too busy with other stuff outside of work to really make as big an investment in their firms? I had far more time to invest in work and professional-related activities in my 20s than I do now. I think it's extra tough if you have young kids and both you and your spouse are working. probably why many of the high performers I know aren't married and have no lives outside of the office.
I know I'm definitely feeling like I'm being pulled in too many directions. perhaps this is also normal with getting older? figuring out what things are worth pursuing - instead of pursuing everything like I did when I first started? finding work/life balance is tough when the expectations are so high on both ends.
tosteroven,
you do have more time in your 20's. I purposely did not propose to my fiance until she passed the ARE. (for those who do not know we met at he last paper and pencil ARE in 1996)
Also, we designed our firm so we can have time with the kids. We are a major part of their lives. Sure there are many phone calls and site visit on weekends but you do what you have to.
bRink -- Your posts show amazing maturity and wisdom. (Applause)
My list of suggested skills and qualities to work on was directed to the poster who said people in their late 20's were tired of paying their dues. The bad news is that you never stop paying dues.
I find that some young people who excelled in school have a hard time transitioning into a world where the rules are different and often unstated. That has always been true. I was trying to state some things that matter, that you can focus on while opportunities are few and far between. I believe in 'preparation meeting opportunity.'
If you have all those skills and qualities, you are way ahead of the crowd. I have often seen otherwise talented, hard-working people passed over because of a deficiency in meeting social norms, or a lack of breadth in focus, or because no one likes them or that no one has ever noticed them. That is unfortunate and should be met with proper mentoring, but we all know that doesn't always happen.
The importance of a good attitude cannot be understated. It makes people want to work with you, it is a way of getting noticed without being seen as a self-promoter, it protects your mental health...
You do not need to be a jack of all trades to hold an important position in a firm, but understanding the implications of everyone's jobs and responsibilities makes things run more smoothly.
Try this--make a list of the top 25 skills and qualities you think a partner or principal should have. Now, make sure you have them all.
where the retirements are
I have been troubled by some of the people Ive employed coming from big firms, well known firms, who are deficient in their skills with people and detailing. It says to me that the firms they worked for took no role in mentoring these folks many of whom were very diligent but ignorant of the profession and how it operates. Mind you some of these people had experiance at places like OWPP and SOM Chicago. Though some may get their licenses I highly doubt they would be able to pull off a building from start to finish. I see this as a triple failure of first, the education and second, the development of new architects and third the individual's unwillingness to see the reality of the situation. I have always tried to engage, imbed and let some control to my employees on my projects. I give them some ownership of their work because keeps them interested. As the boss its my job to step in when they are heading for trouble, burning hours or drowning. But if you dont let go of the leash, they will never learn to run.
this thread just went mainstream...
http://www.architectmagazine.com/blogs/postdetails.aspx?BlogId=worklifeblog&PostId=92590
I can't help but notice that the fundamental structural problems with the profession, discussed with clarity, insight and sympathy in Robert Gutman's "Architectural Practice", haven't entered into this discussion.
To address only the most obviously applicable: this grappling across generations for SATISFYING jobs in Architecture is nothing new, and has causes deeper than whether boomers are selfish or insecure or x'ers are incapable of leadership. We have schools turning out too many architectural grads, and we build expectations about a artistic or social role that way too few people get to feel anything close to.
Which is not to say that these generational factors, as well as the state of the economy at a given moment, don't overlay these deeper problems and exert influence on opportunities for the young- they do. Others here have fleshed out quite a few of those concerns well.
Changing the fundamentals would take years of concentrated effort, an effort I judge so close to impossible that we must just muddle through, as James Fallows recently suggested we must do as a nation, in light of our broken form of government (see the last Atlantic). If so, let's at least see it for what it is and skip the spewing that started this thread.
Agreed. I would love to work at a firm that treats their staff like Blue Goose does. Performance reviews or just 1 on 1 time with the boss is often few and far between. I do admit though that I'm often much happier after I have an unscheduled meeting with the boss. I'd encourage everyone to take initiative with talking to your superiors. It probably won't change office procedure, but it's better than reading Archinect and getting angry.
It says to me that the firms they worked for took no role in mentoring these folks many of whom were very diligent but ignorant of the profession and how it operates.
I have first hand experience of this working with massive corporate accounts in a large firm. A lot of the work is more assembly line production work, which is terrible for teaching an intern the ropes, but quite stable in a bad economy (knock on wood).
My IDP internship was at a mid-sized firm that did more "traditional" architecture. Left after 4 years mostly for the $$$ and nothing else. Looking back I highly respect what that firm did for me. Odds are they earned very little to no profit on my work, but I did get to truly shadow my boss and was mentored very well. I fell back on much of that experience when taking the ARE's and in hindsight feel the low pay was well worth the experience.
Looking back to the late 90s when my best candidates for succession left, it was probably for the better. If they would have bought in, they would have bought in at the start of a 10 year downturn for my firm, and I cant say if they would have made a difference in sales. We had a slight blip in the mid 2000's but that was also at a lower fee rate and less experianced staff. All in all a young architect needs to look at the firm they are investing in - so the clients only want to talk to the name on the door or you are owner on paper only but not in perception? Think about that. Currently Im a one man shop and I dont see the need going forward for employees beyond part time or pairing up with other firms / sole proprietors, but if someone wanted to buy in I'd be glad to sell.
Comment from the Architect article linked above:
Seeing as how Architects have slipped to lower middle class for those under 40 living paycheck to paycheck with 2 income households its hard to make it to the status in society where you actually meet and befriend those in decision making capabilities. Is a $55,000 / year staff architect ever going to be able to run with rainmakers? Doubtful. And if they did score a good lead? They'd kill it and eat it themselves.
Makes a valid point. I'm not so sure young Architect's have ever been paid enough to have high class status, but odds are that someone will spend most of their time meeting people in the same socio-economic circle as themselves.
As Architects are put under great financial pressure with declining salaries and huge debt loads more and more of us will probably be out meeting people at the bowling alley bar, and not the country club.
it's your career -- if you don't move it forward, you can't expect someone else, or the firm, to move it forward for you.
don't worry - I'm moving myself forward. I'm just speaking from past experiences.
"punching-in" is a defensive strategy in order to survive the jobs that are less than stellar until you can move on to someplace else. some people are able to move on, but most people end up completely checking out - IMO - they aren't lost causes though...
I implore firms that have too many of these types of individuals to really take a deep look at how you manage your staff and what kinds of professional development incentives you offer. The answer cannot be just to hire more "go-getters" who remind you of yourself because even the most ambitious individuals can have their spirits crushed.
Here are some clues to get ahead.
Do your work.
Do it right. (Learn how to put a functioning building together—that’s the whole point.)
Do it on time. (Deadlines are not just arbitrary obstacles that bosses create to annoy you.)
Take ownership in your work and pride in it. (This is a way of differentiating yourself.)
Have a great attitude.
Get registered. (It shows incentive and opens doors for you.)
Get LEED. (Stay up-to-date on everything.)
Learn the latest computer programs. (It’s a competitive reality.)
Learn to work in groups. (Cooperate, listen to others, share the work, the challenges and the responsibility.)
Have a great attitude.
Do the stuff no one else wants to do. (Sorry.)
Without complaint.
Have a great attitude.
Dress professional. (This old fashioned, old fogey concept is still important.)
Look professional. (I may not mind the snake tattooed around your neck, but my clients might.)
Act professional. (If you Mom didn’t teach you manners, find someone who will.)
Act like an adult. (Conquer shyness, don’t whine or interrupt, avoid horseplay.)
Get over your fantasy that you will ever just sit around dreaming up great design and wearing funky eyeglasses. (We had that fantasy, too.)
Think like a businessman. (You can’t run a firm without considering money.)
Have a great attitude.
Partners do project management, staffing, budgeting, marketing, negotiating, proposals, bill collecting, etc. too—be prepared for that. (Get over it.)
Learn how to spell and write. (It reflects on your intelligence, education, and attention to detail.)
Learn to communicate. (Listening, explaining, persuading, selling, and listening.)
Learn how to speak comfortably in front of clients and groups.
Always do whatever you can to make your firm look good.
Have a great attitude.
Be proactive. (Bosses will notice who steps up to the plate.)
Become a LEADER!
Re-read all of BlueGoose’s comments.
Have a good attitude.
Be patient. You time will come. Times are bad for all of us.
Good luck!
Uhh, ironically you should add this.
Learn to type.
Sorry, no excuses!
I just want to say that I am eternally grateful that principals and other senior people take the time to post - your perspective is greatly needed and appreciated. I understand that much of my hyperbole is due to inexperience, but I hope that this dialogue will at least allow you to hear what us "kids" are actually thinking. I've definitely learned something.
at my office, the entire staff is very talented, hard working, and most are natural leaders. the problem is, there are so many principles (boomer age) fighting for control that we have very little room to grow. it's not simply a matter of not 'looking professional'.
wrecking:
Develop all those skills and qualities and be prepared to jump on an opportunity. The ranks of people ahead of you will thin. You can't predict the future but you can try to be the best prepared.
Also, enjoy working with all those talented, hard working co-workers. You are fortunate to be in that situation. You should try to learn everything you can from every one of them.
It looks like those baby boomer principals (note the spelling) did something right if your staff is so great. Remember that when you become a principal.
Best of luck.
Great discussion here... Appreciate the diverse insights and perspectives across generations here...
One thought I'd add (from the perspective of someone relatively new to the profession... Late gen x, early gen y): there is alot if discussion about the skillsets, diverse criteria required to be a leader, but my own gut inclination is that in reality, this is a team sport rather than one driven primarily by star players... Maybe this is sort of a naive or idealistic point of view but I don't much like the idea that it is a game where individuals compete for movement up a ladder of succession... I think an effective team, the best work and subsequently the greatest success for an organization comes from the shared and mutual ownership and efforts by an organization as a whole... If there is a culture of comradery and mentorship, I think this doesn't necessarily mean priming particular individuals for succession in a jack of all trades sense but rather the development of a common stake in the work, each individual bringing their talents to the table, being able to trust one another and having the humility also... Respect and trust of teammates so that one can recognize ones own strengths and weaknesses as well as look to teammates for their strengths... I'm not suggesting that people should be pigeonholed into specific skillsets or talents, quite the opposite: if a team is a tight unit that is invested in a common outcome, each member of the team learns from others, and each member will have the desire to support the growth of the team as a whole, share and develop talents broadly, so for example, one person may have remarkable talents in marketing for example but in mentoring others and sharing that knowledge, that marketing skill or knowledge is never his sole responsability or used as a personal wedge to support his or her place in succession, but instead forms a basis for actually making the firm better. The same would apply to all skillsets or knowledge... If common investment in the success of the firm is made, knowledge grows exponentially and successes are shared. Time punching becomes secondary, it's the end result that defines satisfaction generally...
Based on this, the ideal leader in my mind is not someone who is necessarily a one person jack of all trades, but more critically, is a great leader of people... Has integrity, an inspirational manager, genuinely cares about the well being and growth and comradery of the team under his/her leadership, must be fully invested and inspire common investment in the success of the firm, which entails an example of hard work and willingness to carry the firm on his/her back in order to earn the respect and trust and loyalty of the whole organization, as well as defining a standard of professionalism that will translate into a great reputation with clients, consultants, contractors etc... In other words, more than any single skillset, I think people skills and hard work are essential... Being able to bring out the best in people because your team shares in successes and trusts in your leadership because they trust in your work ethic and integrity and that in turn means that their own work ethic and integrity will be returned...
Maybe that's obvious, but in my mind work is ultimately a social endeavor... Without the ability to win people or to develop a team work ethic and social atmosphere in your organization, you may just prep talented people but what is to say they will follow and not take that knowledge and just leave? I think what keeps people on board is the team, because they love the people they work with, and are willing to take a bullet for the team, and can totally depend and trust in their teammates... Maybe that's a bit exaggerated, but I think individual talent is not enough...
Long story short, I think I would rather be a part of a great team that shares in successes and works as a tight unit... Maybe that means it's not so important seniority... Ideally, I think the structure of the organization should be more horizontal, not driven by hierarchy primarily... I think if the management can build that kind of organization, succession becomes secondary to shared growth... It actually relieves pressure? Becomes about the work over politics?
I don't know... Or maybe I'm just not fit for climbing corporate ladders... Maybe my outlook will change after 10 years of working in an office...
cm,
i think the point that i was making is that this a (great) discussion regarding all of the political, financial and cultural reasons that shape the current context of the architecture profession. your post seemed to assume that folks weren't 'trying hard enough'. this is gross simplification and assumption of the problems facing architects in all different stages of their careers. if only life was as simple as being cheerful and dressing appropriately.
One of the concepts lost on the younger set is that of timing. A lot of success is the above mentioned characteristics IN ADDITION to good timing. Being experienced in retail renovations at the exact time a broker your working with on a project is also involved in a major mall deal, or being attached to a property that gets sold to a major out of state developer who needs a local. This is really the secret of Luck - the intersection of preparedness and opportunity. Sadly, life isnt fair, and not everyone gets lucky and this is the hardest pill to swallow.
: ah, the old 'chance favors the prepared mind' concept.
Good reminder!
Mine did. I was more idealistic about the profession as a student/recent graduate intern. At the time I thought the sky was the limit and with hard work I could move up...quickly.
A few years in when the long hours and hard work weren't turning into significant pay raises or bonuses I started to feel a tinge of cynicism.
With a few job moves I found optimism again, but then late in 2008 when things started slowing down management became much more insular, at least from my perspective. Previous advancements seemed to evaporate right with the work load. Job hopping also was no longer an option. It wasn't hard to become very cynical about the profession. Still am in many respects.
All in all, it's upsetting that I'm not where I wanted to be at. 10+ years is a significant amount of time to invest in any profession. Friends and family in different careers have experience major promotions and big moves in the same time period.
But Architecture isn't like the corporate world. When a firm needs a new senior designer they don't put a posting on the company intranet and interview internal candidates that apply. Nor are new management positions often created to elevate someone that has earned senority, but little else.
No, we have to be hand picked from within, usually without knowing really what qualities senior staff are looking for. Or, we have to build a stellar portfolio and hope to get noticed by a competitor and hired away into a senior position (most common way I know of people moving up). Then again, much of that portfolio and external contacts you make are at the will of the managers handling staffing.
Back in the late 90's that bright eyed student intern didn't expect to be partner by 2010 but was expecting more. Sure, the current economy is partly to blame, but spending 10 years in this profession over several different firms I've yet to see anyone promoted minus a few senior outside hires.
So, yes, your outlook probably will change, just as you will change.
aquapura:
With a few job moves I found optimism again, but then late in 2008 when things started slowing down management became much more insular, at least from my perspective. Previous advancements seemed to evaporate right with the work load. Job hopping also was no longer an option. It wasn't hard to become very cynical about the profession. Still am in many respects.
I appreciate your point of view... It's been a sad year for our profession I think across the board... Has been a struggle for me too, not to grow cynical, as projects disappeared and friends and mentors, project teams experienced multiple rounds of layoffs over the course of the year... (I was laid off last year as well)...
I think one of the things that keeps me going though is the people I've worked with, and the experiences I'm acculmulating... We know this is a cyclical industry and it won't be a straight career run or a single job for life, that over the course of an architect's career, we will probably change offices more than a couple times... But something I think we can keep with us, that doesn't get lost is the relationships we develop, friendships we make along the way, the experiences and knowledge that accumulate over the course of our careers...
Also, unlike many other professions, there's another thing that we have as a continuous thread tying our different job experiences together: our portfolios... The portfolio accumulates even if we need to make a move to a new office, it sort of develops as a continuous document of progress... the work, skillsets and experiences we've accumulated, the portfolio is something tangible representing a body of work...
It's probably not such a bad thing to gain experiences in many different offices over the course of a career, since what we do, our project experiences never really go away, and in trying something new, we can gain some diversity in experience and meet new interesting people along the way...
At the end of the day, even if I might not be able to point at as many major promotions as my family or friends in finance or the corporate world or whatever, maybe I'll be able to point at a more interesting diverse body of work, interesting experiences, and things I've accomplished with others that made a difference... At a minimum, I'd like to enjoy my work, and the people I work with...
I've been thinking about this thread for a few days and, at one level, I find it somewhat troubling.
I know many people of my generation who entered architecture precisly because they found the work compelling and the idea of doing that sort of work for the rest of their lives was appealing.
I think the real question that we ought to be asking is not:
"should the boomers retire?"
but
"why would a firm keep anybody - no matter their age - if they're not making a contribution consistent with their compensation?"
IMO, the rewards of employment always should be tied directly to contribution. OK - I recognize that sometimes in a small firm, the founder may be past his prime but still disinclined to retire. Those cases are easy to identify and, if one wishes, avoid.
But, isn't this really a business mangement issue - not one rooted in the generation wars. To tell the truth, I've seen lots of 20-somethings and 30-somethings over the year who were worthless TOO,
hah! a bloggers at architect mag noticed this thread! the comments are really interesting in how they represent a different view point then the archinecteurs posting here.
I started this thread, not to challenge the folks in their prime running a successful practice (ie in their late 40s & 50s), but to talk about transition opportunities when and where retirements are anticipated.
Over in the ivory tower, there seems to be a greater ability to step off stage without worrying about the nitty-gritty of selling a practice. I have two colleagues starting a multi-year phased retirement into emeritus status. Versus in the practice that I left last summer has several principals that returned from retirement and who don't look like they will leave anytime soon.
No offense Barry, but academia and practice are not at all comparable. One has to produce from it's labor and cunning, the other is supported, in most cases, by the public's willingness to fund it hence the "greater ability to step off stage without worrying about the nitty-gritty of selling a practice". I suspect in many states, the looming deficits will be greatly reducing the ease of transition into "Emeritus" status, whatever that is.
bRink - totally agree... even though it doesn't seem it - I am also generally pretty positive about the profession, the people within it, and the things I've gotten to experience so far in my career.
I'm also starting to wonder if the 30-somethings are simply too busy with other stuff outside of work to really make as big an investment in their firms? I had far more time to invest in work and professional-related activities in my 20s than I do now. I think it's extra tough if you have young kids and both you and your spouse are working. probably why many of the high performers I know aren't married and have no lives outside of the office.
I know I'm definitely feeling like I'm being pulled in too many directions. perhaps this is also normal with getting older? figuring out what things are worth pursuing - instead of pursuing everything like I did when I first started? finding work/life balance is tough when the expectations are so high on both ends.
tosteroven,
you do have more time in your 20's. I purposely did not propose to my fiance until she passed the ARE. (for those who do not know we met at he last paper and pencil ARE in 1996)
Also, we designed our firm so we can have time with the kids. We are a major part of their lives. Sure there are many phone calls and site visit on weekends but you do what you have to.
It never gets easier.
bRink -- Your posts show amazing maturity and wisdom. (Applause)
My list of suggested skills and qualities to work on was directed to the poster who said people in their late 20's were tired of paying their dues. The bad news is that you never stop paying dues.
I find that some young people who excelled in school have a hard time transitioning into a world where the rules are different and often unstated. That has always been true. I was trying to state some things that matter, that you can focus on while opportunities are few and far between. I believe in 'preparation meeting opportunity.'
If you have all those skills and qualities, you are way ahead of the crowd. I have often seen otherwise talented, hard-working people passed over because of a deficiency in meeting social norms, or a lack of breadth in focus, or because no one likes them or that no one has ever noticed them. That is unfortunate and should be met with proper mentoring, but we all know that doesn't always happen.
The importance of a good attitude cannot be understated. It makes people want to work with you, it is a way of getting noticed without being seen as a self-promoter, it protects your mental health...
You do not need to be a jack of all trades to hold an important position in a firm, but understanding the implications of everyone's jobs and responsibilities makes things run more smoothly.
Try this--make a list of the top 25 skills and qualities you think a partner or principal should have. Now, make sure you have them all.
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