If you are just starting out consider some contract work for other architects to keep you afloat between projects of your own. In addition to helping your cash flow situation, it will give you some insight and contact with circles other than your own. Many small firms may be hesitant to use you because they see you as competition in the long run. Realistically, thier client pool is safe from you, even though they may not see it that way. So be careful no to step on toes. If you are tight with a couple of sole proprietor types that are more established than you, it can lead to referals for projects they don't want, or at the very least, some insight that you wouldn't normally get being an "employee". Its funny in that as soon as you are perceived to be "on your own" , even partially, there is more mutual respect and you'll learn more about the "business" of architecture. After a couple of years of this, you will will start building up a network of your own, and will start to lead to your own projects.
The important thing in the early years is to stay diversified, as others have said, take every project that is offered. You never know where things will lead. Many will not go anywhere and will be one shot deals, others, even ones you never dreamed would lead anywhere will have potential.
archie, or anyone else who cares to answer -- you mention starting from a residential remodel and that eventually leading to a cancer center, impressive!
that contrasts with a prior comment by someone that to start out doing what you want to do or you will not get to do it ---
how do you transition from project type to project type as you have done? did you already have medical experience? or did you hire employees or consultants to bring it along? or did you study/develop that expertise for yourself through research in preparation for the work?
i do have some very small work trickling in while a research assistant in grad school, some product design, furniture design and a little interior decorating --- more doing favors for researchers and associated staffers -- but the amount is starting to increase (4 going on at once right now)
i like it and am approaching it as practice for one day starting a firm or being a partner --- but would not want to do that yet b/c i feel i need more time in a larger firm b/c so far i have only managed small projects <$2000000 (higher ed/civic/industrial) in about five years of interning and practice --- and b/c i bounced around due to my wife's job, my experience with each of those project types is only cursory -- i know which i'd like to focus on though, and feel as though once i get out of school, i need about 3-10 years of experience in that area to really be crackerjack
or is there a way to build the knowledge without going back to a larger firm until i am managing large projects?
jmanganelli - possibly with a large trust fund that is possible--- start a firm taking only ideal projects. Maybe a spin-off from a well established firm with a few key clients in tow could work for a couple years. then what? sink or swim I guess.
The whole idea of doing only what you want to do from day one seems kind of boring really. Were is the growth, the discovery, the satisfaction of building something up? What is the reason for starting a firm in the first place, if not for these reasons? Just so you can take a 3 hour lunch and no one says boo?
Everybody starts out differently and there isn't one recipe for success. Some start with a bang, a couple of key projects that put them on the map, and then fight for the next 10 years to top those initial projects. Most start small, as you are doing, slowly developing a network, leading to more substantial projects over time.
In either case, any firm has winners and losers. Lurking in any partner's basement, or public storage facility are boxes upon boxes of dead files containing the projects that no one talks about. Don't be fooled by the PR machine.
You'll learn more about starting and maintaining a firm spending a weekend sifting through those dead files, than you will 5 years as an intern "manager" at the office.
Its common to hear interns, project architects, and sometimes even more senior people talk about "managing a project", "managing from it from start to finish", etc. etc.
I think most employees have a very narrow view of the work that goes into a project. From the moment it lands on their desk, SD through close out, only represents a portion of the effort. Many substantial projects, even residential ones, take months and sometimes years of courtship (phone calls, emails, meetings, marketing material, negotiating) before the project lands on anyones happy desk. Not to mention the billing and collections, taxes, cash flow management, etc. that happens behind closed doors while the project is "managed" by office staff. And then of course the months and years that follow of maintaining those relationships, marketing the project, and courting the next one.
The first thing I learned about working for myself was that the "work" is only about half of the "Work".
i suppose in a small way i'm getting a big picture now - of very small work
i would like a big picture of big work - so i suppose that means going back to a larger firm until i earn the right to get that bigger picture through them or i earn a chance through my performance with clients that they start offering me the opportunity, independent of the firm granting it
I have no exp. with this subject but ...if i were to start a business ...i would start small and look into places like 3rd WArd Brooklyn that offer a desk, wood shop, media lab etc. for 500$ a month
so s.selophane how's the business going? I'd really like/prefer that people who start these threads come back and let us know how things are progressing
You asked about how i did projects where i had no experience in the type: lots of research, before, during and after the project. My firm has an incredibly diverse practice: we do private residences, affordable housing, retail, restaurants, assisted living, medical, higher ed, public buildings, offices, municipal, and industrial. Each of my clients sees me as an expert in their particular field. You need to do LOTS of research when you start a new project type. I have been in the business over 30 years, so I have worked on lots of different projects. I read about 15 trade journals of all types a week.
That said, most of my work comes from clients who want my firm to do their project, and don't care if we have experience in the type. For example, that client that hired me to first renovate his house has since hired me for an industrial building, retail stores, strip centers, offices, medical offices, and a condo. He has referred me to others to do residential, educational, industrial, restaurants, and medical.
For my practice, it was more important to nurture individual clients than a project type. This has worked very well in the recession: I have 10 or 12 major clients who each give me an average of 10 to 50 projects every year. And my first handful of clients are still my clients years and years and years later.
I think you do need at least 8 years of practice in a firm before you can go out on your own. It would be highly unusual to do it in less time. In all my years, I have known only one person, a former employee, who did it in less. He got licensed exactly 5 years after leaving school, and started his own firm a few years later. We give him about half of his work. If the economy was better, he probably would be fine on his own. He is extremely bright and aggressive, well rounded, and had 5 years of incredible experience at our firm.
Since this thread has been bumped I figured I would post an update on what I ended up doing.
In the end, only 2 of us ended up starting a 2 partner LLC. The other colleague was unable to make the commitments necessary.
We ended up both contributing $400 each to cover the expense of filing the paperwork necessary to incorporate in VA and establishing a virtual office. We have had a few projects come our way though our business connections, one of which provided us with enough capital to establish professional services with an accountant and a lawyer.
I found the book Architect's Essentials of Starting, Assessing and Transitioning a Design Firm available from amazon.com as an invaluable resource.
Over the past year we have gone through an extensive process of developing a business identity, as well as goals and plans and are finally starting to market our services beyond the contacts we already have.
We are both realistic in our planning and have resigned ourselves to working two jobs, a full time position and running our own firm, for the next few years until we believe we can bring in enough fees to cover our own living expenses.
...and have resigned ourselves to working two jobs, a full time position and running our own firm...
Is your FT job at an Architecture firm? If so, is that a conflict of interest if you have your own firm on the side?
I'm curious about moonlighting as a way to build up cash and a reputation before starting a firm. Many corporate firms strictly prohibity moonlighting because of liability - so I'm told. Also, if you get a decent project that you want to moonlight on wouldn't it be a good idea to have personal liability insurance. On side jobs I sure wouldn't sign my name on any drawings. Seems to me you'd pretty much have to quit your day job to make the plunge.
So, in my case I bring clients into my employer. Someday I might consider starting my own firm, but for the time being I fully admit that I've still got a lot to learn.
My full time job is not with an Architecture firm; I work for a non profit Architecture Regulation Organization.
My business partner does work at an architecture firm within a different (non-competitive to us) market, but was hired with the full disclosure of our own practice and has been allowed to work half days on Thursday's to allow him to work on our firm. Of course, he is still working 60+ hours during the rest of the week.
We are in the process of arranging standard business liability insurance. As an LLC personal liability insurance is not needed. Since I am the only licensed architect, I stamp and sign all documents, and as such no specific insurance is needed for him as a moonlighter. We are not planning on getting E&O insurance until we need to.
Working full time on a start-up firm would be ideal, but neither of us come from wealthy families who can support us full time for any reasonable amount of time, nor do we have substantial savings, because it is near impossible to save a large enough balance to make a difference on an architect's salary. So we are making this work for now.
cadcroupier is right about the lack of visibility most employees get into the operation of a successful firm. The pressure of finding clients, courting them and getting hired will is enough to make me thank my stars for my paycheck.
I do appreciate the discussion on this thread - it appears starting a firm gradually (the day job = training wheels) has worked for many.
As a full-time lecturer at the U of MN, I'm allowed to 'consult' on the average, one day per seven-day week.... the maximum is 48 days. I can also pursue public projects that result in grants instead of fees.
So for now, I'm attempting to launch my practice following this route.
Starting a firm
If you are just starting out consider some contract work for other architects to keep you afloat between projects of your own. In addition to helping your cash flow situation, it will give you some insight and contact with circles other than your own. Many small firms may be hesitant to use you because they see you as competition in the long run. Realistically, thier client pool is safe from you, even though they may not see it that way. So be careful no to step on toes. If you are tight with a couple of sole proprietor types that are more established than you, it can lead to referals for projects they don't want, or at the very least, some insight that you wouldn't normally get being an "employee". Its funny in that as soon as you are perceived to be "on your own" , even partially, there is more mutual respect and you'll learn more about the "business" of architecture. After a couple of years of this, you will will start building up a network of your own, and will start to lead to your own projects.
The important thing in the early years is to stay diversified, as others have said, take every project that is offered. You never know where things will lead. Many will not go anywhere and will be one shot deals, others, even ones you never dreamed would lead anywhere will have potential.
oh yeah,,,, NO LOANS!
cc
archie, or anyone else who cares to answer -- you mention starting from a residential remodel and that eventually leading to a cancer center, impressive!
that contrasts with a prior comment by someone that to start out doing what you want to do or you will not get to do it ---
how do you transition from project type to project type as you have done? did you already have medical experience? or did you hire employees or consultants to bring it along? or did you study/develop that expertise for yourself through research in preparation for the work?
i do have some very small work trickling in while a research assistant in grad school, some product design, furniture design and a little interior decorating --- more doing favors for researchers and associated staffers -- but the amount is starting to increase (4 going on at once right now)
i like it and am approaching it as practice for one day starting a firm or being a partner --- but would not want to do that yet b/c i feel i need more time in a larger firm b/c so far i have only managed small projects <$2000000 (higher ed/civic/industrial) in about five years of interning and practice --- and b/c i bounced around due to my wife's job, my experience with each of those project types is only cursory -- i know which i'd like to focus on though, and feel as though once i get out of school, i need about 3-10 years of experience in that area to really be crackerjack
or is there a way to build the knowledge without going back to a larger firm until i am managing large projects?
thoughts greatly appreciated
jmanganelli - possibly with a large trust fund that is possible--- start a firm taking only ideal projects. Maybe a spin-off from a well established firm with a few key clients in tow could work for a couple years. then what? sink or swim I guess.
The whole idea of doing only what you want to do from day one seems kind of boring really. Were is the growth, the discovery, the satisfaction of building something up? What is the reason for starting a firm in the first place, if not for these reasons? Just so you can take a 3 hour lunch and no one says boo?
Everybody starts out differently and there isn't one recipe for success. Some start with a bang, a couple of key projects that put them on the map, and then fight for the next 10 years to top those initial projects. Most start small, as you are doing, slowly developing a network, leading to more substantial projects over time.
In either case, any firm has winners and losers. Lurking in any partner's basement, or public storage facility are boxes upon boxes of dead files containing the projects that no one talks about. Don't be fooled by the PR machine.
You'll learn more about starting and maintaining a firm spending a weekend sifting through those dead files, than you will 5 years as an intern "manager" at the office.
Its common to hear interns, project architects, and sometimes even more senior people talk about "managing a project", "managing from it from start to finish", etc. etc.
I think most employees have a very narrow view of the work that goes into a project. From the moment it lands on their desk, SD through close out, only represents a portion of the effort. Many substantial projects, even residential ones, take months and sometimes years of courtship (phone calls, emails, meetings, marketing material, negotiating) before the project lands on anyones happy desk. Not to mention the billing and collections, taxes, cash flow management, etc. that happens behind closed doors while the project is "managed" by office staff. And then of course the months and years that follow of maintaining those relationships, marketing the project, and courting the next one.
The first thing I learned about working for myself was that the "work" is only about half of the "Work".
thanks cadcroupier
i suppose in a small way i'm getting a big picture now - of very small work
i would like a big picture of big work - so i suppose that means going back to a larger firm until i earn the right to get that bigger picture through them or i earn a chance through my performance with clients that they start offering me the opportunity, independent of the firm granting it
I have no exp. with this subject but ...if i were to start a business ...i would start small and look into places like 3rd WArd Brooklyn that offer a desk, wood shop, media lab etc. for 500$ a month
so s.selophane how's the business going? I'd really like/prefer that people who start these threads come back and let us know how things are progressing
jmanganelli;
You asked about how i did projects where i had no experience in the type: lots of research, before, during and after the project. My firm has an incredibly diverse practice: we do private residences, affordable housing, retail, restaurants, assisted living, medical, higher ed, public buildings, offices, municipal, and industrial. Each of my clients sees me as an expert in their particular field. You need to do LOTS of research when you start a new project type. I have been in the business over 30 years, so I have worked on lots of different projects. I read about 15 trade journals of all types a week.
That said, most of my work comes from clients who want my firm to do their project, and don't care if we have experience in the type. For example, that client that hired me to first renovate his house has since hired me for an industrial building, retail stores, strip centers, offices, medical offices, and a condo. He has referred me to others to do residential, educational, industrial, restaurants, and medical.
For my practice, it was more important to nurture individual clients than a project type. This has worked very well in the recession: I have 10 or 12 major clients who each give me an average of 10 to 50 projects every year. And my first handful of clients are still my clients years and years and years later.
I think you do need at least 8 years of practice in a firm before you can go out on your own. It would be highly unusual to do it in less time. In all my years, I have known only one person, a former employee, who did it in less. He got licensed exactly 5 years after leaving school, and started his own firm a few years later. We give him about half of his work. If the economy was better, he probably would be fine on his own. He is extremely bright and aggressive, well rounded, and had 5 years of incredible experience at our firm.
thanks for the information & perspective, archie
Since this thread has been bumped I figured I would post an update on what I ended up doing.
In the end, only 2 of us ended up starting a 2 partner LLC. The other colleague was unable to make the commitments necessary.
We ended up both contributing $400 each to cover the expense of filing the paperwork necessary to incorporate in VA and establishing a virtual office. We have had a few projects come our way though our business connections, one of which provided us with enough capital to establish professional services with an accountant and a lawyer.
I found the book Architect's Essentials of Starting, Assessing and Transitioning a Design Firm available from amazon.com as an invaluable resource.
Over the past year we have gone through an extensive process of developing a business identity, as well as goals and plans and are finally starting to market our services beyond the contacts we already have.
We are both realistic in our planning and have resigned ourselves to working two jobs, a full time position and running our own firm, for the next few years until we believe we can bring in enough fees to cover our own living expenses.
thanks for the book rec.
Is your FT job at an Architecture firm? If so, is that a conflict of interest if you have your own firm on the side?
I'm curious about moonlighting as a way to build up cash and a reputation before starting a firm. Many corporate firms strictly prohibity moonlighting because of liability - so I'm told. Also, if you get a decent project that you want to moonlight on wouldn't it be a good idea to have personal liability insurance. On side jobs I sure wouldn't sign my name on any drawings. Seems to me you'd pretty much have to quit your day job to make the plunge.
So, in my case I bring clients into my employer. Someday I might consider starting my own firm, but for the time being I fully admit that I've still got a lot to learn.
My full time job is not with an Architecture firm; I work for a non profit Architecture Regulation Organization.
My business partner does work at an architecture firm within a different (non-competitive to us) market, but was hired with the full disclosure of our own practice and has been allowed to work half days on Thursday's to allow him to work on our firm. Of course, he is still working 60+ hours during the rest of the week.
We are in the process of arranging standard business liability insurance. As an LLC personal liability insurance is not needed. Since I am the only licensed architect, I stamp and sign all documents, and as such no specific insurance is needed for him as a moonlighter. We are not planning on getting E&O insurance until we need to.
Working full time on a start-up firm would be ideal, but neither of us come from wealthy families who can support us full time for any reasonable amount of time, nor do we have substantial savings, because it is near impossible to save a large enough balance to make a difference on an architect's salary. So we are making this work for now.
thanks for the update s.selophane!
cadcroupier is right about the lack of visibility most employees get into the operation of a successful firm. The pressure of finding clients, courting them and getting hired will is enough to make me thank my stars for my paycheck.
I do appreciate the discussion on this thread - it appears starting a firm gradually (the day job = training wheels) has worked for many.
As a full-time lecturer at the U of MN, I'm allowed to 'consult' on the average, one day per seven-day week.... the maximum is 48 days. I can also pursue public projects that result in grants instead of fees.
So for now, I'm attempting to launch my practice following this route.
good luck, barry! sounds like a nice way to get started, actually...
barry - you are full time faculty yes? Are there similar limitations for part time faculty? Good luck - sounds like an excellent launch pad.
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