WASHINGTON - Three days after the voting ended, the race for Democratic delegates in Super Tuesday's contests was still too close to call. With nearly 1,600 delegates from Tuesday contests awarded, Sen. Barack Obama led by two delegates Friday night, with 91 delegates still to be awarded. Obama won 796 delegates in Tuesday's contests, to 794 for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, according to an analysis of voting results by The Associated Press.
Hey everyone, I just heard that the states voting today need help phonebanking, if you can make the time: Obama Phonebanking page
Also, if you can make it, Obama's Maine offices need people:
For Augusta, Maine drive to 45 Memorial Circle in Augusta-- it's the Preti & Flaherty law office -- volunteers will be needed from 10 a.m. 7 p.m. --show up for as much as you can.... you take 95 north to Augusta....
If you want to go to Portland, Maine instead, the location is 1 City Center ....the 5th floor is where the Obama HQ is.. it's in an office building with a food court on first floor.
were you able to make it to Key Arena yesterday rationalist? I heard he packed the house. 19,000 in and another 5,000 they did not have room for. The guy is drawing massive crowds.
no, but one of my housemates got to go. I figured that it would be some sort of electoral sabatoge to go spread my bronchitis among known supporters of a certain candidate.
i'm not sure your argument is making sense - he was behind on total delegate count before the day started. he won all three states by a nearly 2 to 1 margin and picked up a correspondingly greater number of delegates. so, because he didn't win all of the delegates outright and take the overall lead, he's didn't really do that well? what is he supposed to do, win 100% of the vote?
(by the way, he is leading on the number of pledged delegates, you know, the ones we actually get to vote for. the numbers you're quoting, which cnn does as well, include the so called 'super delegates' who can vote for anyone and change their vote at any time. they have no real idea who all of those people will tend to break for, so they've just counted them up as cnn thinks they will vote. which brings me to my real point...)
if you were obama this morning, would you not accept hillary's offer to get free air time (i mean 'debate') once a week in exchange for her promising to abide by the following: whoever has the most pledged delegates - the ones that millions of voters decided - heading into the convention should win, that the handful of party bosses couldn't over-rule the voice of their constituents. you think she'd take that proposal? (the answer of course is: hell, no. she's banking on whipping the party bosses around to make sure this is 'her time'.) i'm pretty sure obama would....
patrick, how do you turn policy into poetry? i think he will turn to more wonky stuff when it matters, against mccain, the distinctions are easier to make against him.
1- His health care proposal is both realistic and far reaching. Health care is KEY for our survival as a power. Industry is not leaving because of high wages, they are leaving because of the high cost of health care. His plan includes market-based and government-based solutions, very pragmatic and smart.
2- He stands in contrast of what american power should be used for. Instead of war, STRONG diplomacy. Instead of Iraq, go fight Al Quaeda IN Afghanistan and Pakistan. (I just heard Newt Gingritch say the exact same thing)
3-Instead of a polar partisan presidency a bipartisan coalition (something very hard, if not impossible, under Hillary)
4- Education possibilities for ALL Americans, help to go to college.
5- He is not making crazy promises and screaming at the other side.
6- He will lead America as we HAVE to get rid of our oil dependence, funding innovation and smart policies. For our own future to be bright we need to lead the world in 'green' innovation.
7- I LOVE his national service requirement to get some extra cash. I have always thought that we are too spoiled as Americans. I understand if people do not want to go to war, but serving your community is KEY for a working society.
If you actually watch the last debates Obama and Clinton get into some pretty detailed ideas about what each one would do if they were president...from many of the comments here it seems more people get their info from thrid party sources who quiote snippets or just state something and then others take it as fact...as opposed to listening or spending a little time to find the information themselves.
A bureau chief says we should stay in Iraq...well I am glad you are willing to follow media into war.
Iraq has nothing to do with Al Qaeda...sorry. Outside of the opportunities we made for them but do to the Iraqi cultural landscape they have found it difficult to get deeply involved there...what we created was a civil war scenario in Iraq...brilliant...nothing to do with Islamo Fascism...whatever the hell that is supposed to mean...how about global corporate industrial fascism? nah, we need that.
So, your philosophy is we broke it we bought it? Please show me, by example, where occupation has ever worked, and post WW2 Germany does not count. You cannot force democracy on a country, they have to want it, fight for it, and die for it. Iraq has no incentive to any of those things, oh yes they are dying, but not for democracy.
Because I remember when that outcry was barely just a murmur prior to our sending troops
you must have been hanging out in different places than me, patrick. the outcry has been around. isn't that at least partly why you left us for such a long while? if you live in a city, you've possibly been hearing a predominantly anti-war message since some time in 2002. (i'll agree that when i'm in the outlying areas or in churches, i've understood that this anti-hawk talk has always been best kept quiet.)
I don't think you can cherry pick where and when and who you are going to pick fights with in Iraq.
so why didn't/don't we pick the fights somewhere else?
i agree with much of what you say, so i'm finding it difficult to weed through the good to root out the bad. is anyone but ron paul still saying we'll leave iraq 'precipitously'? all the candidates realize that there is a commitment of some length. the difference is still that:
a) those who believe (now or always) that we entered iraq based on false/misleading information would like to find an honorable way to extract ourselves from a situation we only seem to be exacerbating. refocus on the fight with al qaeda at its root instead of at the place it's opportunistically sprouted: iraq after we tore it apart.
b)those who think the iraq war was a good strategic move, a strike at the heart of religious fundamentalism, still think there is something to prove and something positive we can do by forcing our worldview onto a place in which it's not welcome. note that this crew often comes off as fundamentalists themselves, just of a different stripe.
and none of those ^^^ comments are meant to be anti-military. the military has a job to do in anyone's scenario. it's just a matter of whether we pick the right job for them to do.
only in the last year or so has this administration been making something close to reasonable choices, and only under pressure from US, the people of the u.s. that are part of the social contract you mention, not voluntarily.
Patrick, I appreciate your comments as I feel somewhat similarly. However, I was one of those that thought that a unilateral attack against a sovereign nation was going to be a mistake no matter what. Add issues of Guantanamo, torture, Abu Graib, and this conflict and president has made the worst foreign policy decisions in the history of the country.
He has made horrible precedents, we need to repudiate them strongly. Many republicans (Newt Gingritch has done it very loudly) are calling for what Obama is proposing; pull out of Iraq (slowly) and begin to focus in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and smarter ways to fight Al Qaeda.
I think that at this point, thanks to Bush, we have no other option than to talk to Iran. The only problem is that after a long time BEGGING us to talk they have given up and do not seem interested anymore. I support Obama on his call to talk to our enemies.
In the delegate chase, Obama has pulled ahead of Clinton, even when the support of uncommitted super delegates is figured in. According to CBS News estimates, Obama holds a razor-thin lead with 1,134 delegates overall to 1,131 for Clinton.
[rant]
Ok, people often complain that the media loves Obama, nothing can be further from the truth. Yesterday Obama takes another HUGE win, and all the news outlets have Hillary's picture all over the place.
hillary is such a blue dog and mccain is such a moderate that i see them as possible running mates, and more with all the cheating bill gets away with i wouldn't be surprised if hillary did so even more too
Patrick sounds like someone you can talk to. . .so I'll vent.
I don't really think any homebound American (like me) can have an objective worldview, any more than can an unenlightened native of any other place on Earth. And until we can see the larger picture, we cannot correctly perceive our place in it -- can we ? But it doesn't take too much thought to infer a few probable truths, based on a universal understanding of human nature:
Is there a difference between the attitudes and actions of a religious fundamentalist in a rich and powerful nation, and one living in a place of little international influence ? Perhaps one of the few similarities between a Christian fundamentalist here and a Muslim fundamentalist "there" is that both have been misled and miseducated ?
Why is America meddling in the Mideast ? Aside from our perceived "national security interests" and our proclaimed friendship with Israel, isn't it about oil ? What was the first showdown between Dick Cheney and Congress about ? The national energy policy meetings between the Vice President and his "energy advisors" -- the substance of which meetings Cheney successfully fought to keep from the public.
The history of the last six decades is one of American dominance and indifference on the world stage. Our "ambassadors" -- Presidents, Secretaries of State, etc, of both parties -- have repeatedly acted in ways that made plain our self-interest, when we could have afforded, in all senses, to have been both more impartial and more magnanimous. The current incumbent is merely the most blatant of them all.
The big guy on the block can throw his weight around for only so long before the accumulated insult is addressed -- legitimately or illegitimately -- by someone from the "other side." Just think what a portion of the trillions we will spend on the current escapade could have done, over the last couple of decades (let us say) to enhance our place in the world -- we, who spend a smaller portion of our GDP on foreign aid than any other developed nation -- and fail even to support as promised the one international body of diplomacy and aid that we have, the UN.
It's all been said before, I know -- and it can be taken as the worst kind of "treason" by the terminally egocentric and xenophobic "patriot." Only impartial education will make any dent in our collective inability to understand how we got to our current place in the world -- or even to see what that place is.
Obama (and others ?) have spoken of eliminating a permanent American presence in Iraq -- but no one mentions the 50+ (?) bases we are presently building there ! Does anyone think we intend to abandon those ?
FRC, Yknow Im confused. You seem to imply legal immigrants are just fine and just as anxious to round up and deport illegal immigrants as you would be, but youre all bent out of shape by "Si se puede"? Do you think only illegals' first language is spanish? How does a guy pander to a bunch of people who cant vote anyway?
VOTE OBAMA
WASHINGTON - Three days after the voting ended, the race for Democratic delegates in Super Tuesday's contests was still too close to call. With nearly 1,600 delegates from Tuesday contests awarded, Sen. Barack Obama led by two delegates Friday night, with 91 delegates still to be awarded. Obama won 796 delegates in Tuesday's contests, to 794 for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, according to an analysis of voting results by The Associated Press.
is it kind of a hip thing to do to say ur obama supporter?
I hope not -- that's sure death.
i'm hip? wow. i never knew.
I just got Obama spam! I'll bet it's really from some Clinton group trying to annoy people in his name ... it's an Obama Spam Astroturf conspiracy!
Hey everyone, I just heard that the states voting today need help phonebanking, if you can make the time:
Obama Phonebanking page
Also, if you can make it, Obama's Maine offices need people:
For Augusta, Maine drive to 45 Memorial Circle in Augusta-- it's the Preti & Flaherty law office -- volunteers will be needed from 10 a.m. 7 p.m. --show up for as much as you can.... you take 95 north to Augusta....
If you want to go to Portland, Maine instead, the location is 1 City Center ....the 5th floor is where the Obama HQ is.. it's in an office building with a food court on first floor.
"I'll bet it's really from some Clinton group trying to annoy people in his name.."
Theres actually a lot of that. More likely though its some third party 527 either misinforming or thinking they are helping and clearly not.
I went to our [WA] caucus today. Voted Obama and only less than a dozen Hillary stickers.
I was caucusing today too, e. Curious to see how it turns out, as I didn't stay for the whole sorting into groups and convincing people thing.
765, uh sorry, it was probably me....
were you able to make it to Key Arena yesterday rationalist? I heard he packed the house. 19,000 in and another 5,000 they did not have room for. The guy is drawing massive crowds.
no, but one of my housemates got to go. I figured that it would be some sort of electoral sabatoge to go spread my bronchitis among known supporters of a certain candidate.
, and appears to be on track to win Louisiana.
Thank you, Washington State caucus-goers!
but no thanks for nebraska?
Do we have any Nebraska archinectors regularly posting on this thread? If so, thanks to them as well.
This was predicted. We're not out of the woods yet -- but the momentum is very helpful, and feels good too !
Anybody read the recent piece on Hillary -- and Obama -- in a recent New Yorker ? Interesting stuff. . .
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/01/28/080128fa_fact_packer
It was predicted, but it still feels good.
Clinton 1,084
Obama 1,057
Getting closer and they're each only about halfway there.
sdr, it was only about obama peripherally, really about hillary's struggle to find her "voice."
j -
i'm not sure your argument is making sense - he was behind on total delegate count before the day started. he won all three states by a nearly 2 to 1 margin and picked up a correspondingly greater number of delegates. so, because he didn't win all of the delegates outright and take the overall lead, he's didn't really do that well? what is he supposed to do, win 100% of the vote?
(by the way, he is leading on the number of pledged delegates, you know, the ones we actually get to vote for. the numbers you're quoting, which cnn does as well, include the so called 'super delegates' who can vote for anyone and change their vote at any time. they have no real idea who all of those people will tend to break for, so they've just counted them up as cnn thinks they will vote. which brings me to my real point...)
if you were obama this morning, would you not accept hillary's offer to get free air time (i mean 'debate') once a week in exchange for her promising to abide by the following: whoever has the most pledged delegates - the ones that millions of voters decided - heading into the convention should win, that the handful of party bosses couldn't over-rule the voice of their constituents. you think she'd take that proposal? (the answer of course is: hell, no. she's banking on whipping the party bosses around to make sure this is 'her time'.) i'm pretty sure obama would....
whoops - i think j's argument was on page one and was after super tuesday. bad transposition of days/display pages. ignore the very first part....
patrick, how do you turn policy into poetry? i think he will turn to more wonky stuff when it matters, against mccain, the distinctions are easier to make against him.
"patrick, how do you turn policy into poetry?"
I think hes actually doing this better lately.
Here he lays out why he is the best candidate:
1- His health care proposal is both realistic and far reaching. Health care is KEY for our survival as a power. Industry is not leaving because of high wages, they are leaving because of the high cost of health care. His plan includes market-based and government-based solutions, very pragmatic and smart.
2- He stands in contrast of what american power should be used for. Instead of war, STRONG diplomacy. Instead of Iraq, go fight Al Quaeda IN Afghanistan and Pakistan. (I just heard Newt Gingritch say the exact same thing)
3-Instead of a polar partisan presidency a bipartisan coalition (something very hard, if not impossible, under Hillary)
4- Education possibilities for ALL Americans, help to go to college.
5- He is not making crazy promises and screaming at the other side.
6- He will lead America as we HAVE to get rid of our oil dependence, funding innovation and smart policies. For our own future to be bright we need to lead the world in 'green' innovation.
7- I LOVE his national service requirement to get some extra cash. I have always thought that we are too spoiled as Americans. I understand if people do not want to go to war, but serving your community is KEY for a working society.
If you actually watch the last debates Obama and Clinton get into some pretty detailed ideas about what each one would do if they were president...from many of the comments here it seems more people get their info from thrid party sources who quiote snippets or just state something and then others take it as fact...as opposed to listening or spending a little time to find the information themselves.
A bureau chief says we should stay in Iraq...well I am glad you are willing to follow media into war.
Iraq has nothing to do with Al Qaeda...sorry. Outside of the opportunities we made for them but do to the Iraqi cultural landscape they have found it difficult to get deeply involved there...what we created was a civil war scenario in Iraq...brilliant...nothing to do with Islamo Fascism...whatever the hell that is supposed to mean...how about global corporate industrial fascism? nah, we need that.
Patrick,
So, your philosophy is we broke it we bought it? Please show me, by example, where occupation has ever worked, and post WW2 Germany does not count. You cannot force democracy on a country, they have to want it, fight for it, and die for it. Iraq has no incentive to any of those things, oh yes they are dying, but not for democracy.
you must have been hanging out in different places than me, patrick. the outcry has been around. isn't that at least partly why you left us for such a long while? if you live in a city, you've possibly been hearing a predominantly anti-war message since some time in 2002. (i'll agree that when i'm in the outlying areas or in churches, i've understood that this anti-hawk talk has always been best kept quiet.)
I don't think you can cherry pick where and when and who you are going to pick fights with in Iraq.
so why didn't/don't we pick the fights somewhere else?
i agree with much of what you say, so i'm finding it difficult to weed through the good to root out the bad. is anyone but ron paul still saying we'll leave iraq 'precipitously'? all the candidates realize that there is a commitment of some length. the difference is still that:
a) those who believe (now or always) that we entered iraq based on false/misleading information would like to find an honorable way to extract ourselves from a situation we only seem to be exacerbating. refocus on the fight with al qaeda at its root instead of at the place it's opportunistically sprouted: iraq after we tore it apart.
b)those who think the iraq war was a good strategic move, a strike at the heart of religious fundamentalism, still think there is something to prove and something positive we can do by forcing our worldview onto a place in which it's not welcome. note that this crew often comes off as fundamentalists themselves, just of a different stripe.
and none of those ^^^ comments are meant to be anti-military. the military has a job to do in anyone's scenario. it's just a matter of whether we pick the right job for them to do.
only in the last year or so has this administration been making something close to reasonable choices, and only under pressure from US, the people of the u.s. that are part of the social contract you mention, not voluntarily.
Patrick, I appreciate your comments as I feel somewhat similarly. However, I was one of those that thought that a unilateral attack against a sovereign nation was going to be a mistake no matter what. Add issues of Guantanamo, torture, Abu Graib, and this conflict and president has made the worst foreign policy decisions in the history of the country.
He has made horrible precedents, we need to repudiate them strongly. Many republicans (Newt Gingritch has done it very loudly) are calling for what Obama is proposing; pull out of Iraq (slowly) and begin to focus in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and smarter ways to fight Al Qaeda.
I think that at this point, thanks to Bush, we have no other option than to talk to Iran. The only problem is that after a long time BEGGING us to talk they have given up and do not seem interested anymore. I support Obama on his call to talk to our enemies.
In the delegate chase, Obama has pulled ahead of Clinton, even when the support of uncommitted super delegates is figured in. According to CBS News estimates, Obama holds a razor-thin lead with 1,134 delegates overall to 1,131 for Clinton.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/10/politics/main3813759.shtml
[rant]
Ok, people often complain that the media loves Obama, nothing can be further from the truth. Yesterday Obama takes another HUGE win, and all the news outlets have Hillary's picture all over the place.
and then this little diddi:
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/02/09/the_obama_spin_on_a_sweep.html
Spin on such a sweep? There is no spin he won fair and square.
the media is turning to Hillary 100%, the washington post, NYT, and CNN are the worst.
[/rant]
CNN still has her listed as leading. Nice...perception is everything.
Consensus of PBS pundits, yesterday: if it's Clinton vs McCain, it looks good for McCain. If Obama vs McCain, the dems have a good chance -- at least.
hillary is such a blue dog and mccain is such a moderate that i see them as possible running mates, and more with all the cheating bill gets away with i wouldn't be surprised if hillary did so even more too
Patrick sounds like someone you can talk to. . .so I'll vent.
I don't really think any homebound American (like me) can have an objective worldview, any more than can an unenlightened native of any other place on Earth. And until we can see the larger picture, we cannot correctly perceive our place in it -- can we ? But it doesn't take too much thought to infer a few probable truths, based on a universal understanding of human nature:
Is there a difference between the attitudes and actions of a religious fundamentalist in a rich and powerful nation, and one living in a place of little international influence ? Perhaps one of the few similarities between a Christian fundamentalist here and a Muslim fundamentalist "there" is that both have been misled and miseducated ?
Why is America meddling in the Mideast ? Aside from our perceived "national security interests" and our proclaimed friendship with Israel, isn't it about oil ? What was the first showdown between Dick Cheney and Congress about ? The national energy policy meetings between the Vice President and his "energy advisors" -- the substance of which meetings Cheney successfully fought to keep from the public.
The history of the last six decades is one of American dominance and indifference on the world stage. Our "ambassadors" -- Presidents, Secretaries of State, etc, of both parties -- have repeatedly acted in ways that made plain our self-interest, when we could have afforded, in all senses, to have been both more impartial and more magnanimous. The current incumbent is merely the most blatant of them all.
The big guy on the block can throw his weight around for only so long before the accumulated insult is addressed -- legitimately or illegitimately -- by someone from the "other side." Just think what a portion of the trillions we will spend on the current escapade could have done, over the last couple of decades (let us say) to enhance our place in the world -- we, who spend a smaller portion of our GDP on foreign aid than any other developed nation -- and fail even to support as promised the one international body of diplomacy and aid that we have, the UN.
It's all been said before, I know -- and it can be taken as the worst kind of "treason" by the terminally egocentric and xenophobic "patriot." Only impartial education will make any dent in our collective inability to understand how we got to our current place in the world -- or even to see what that place is.
Obama (and others ?) have spoken of eliminating a permanent American presence in Iraq -- but no one mentions the 50+ (?) bases we are presently building there ! Does anyone think we intend to abandon those ?
damn!
tried to post a pic of this:
http://usatoday.feedroom.com/index.jsp?fr_story=ec2fd293b2336476ecfbd63555db07ba9e8e312e&rf=rss
Obama in the Oval Office!!
hey hillary's there too!
in her blue pantsuit
sharp!!
¡Sí,Se Puede!
¡¡Sí, Se Puede!!
¡Sí,Se Puede!
yes it does like some sort of weird 3-way presidency, but Obama is closer to the desk!
free, i think that under your sometimes obnoxious tactics you are falling for Obama.
he's darn cute
i think i'm crushin'
better take it to the man crushes there free.
Obama interview with Politico.com:
http://www.politico.com/candidateinterviews/obama/indexpart1.html
Weird -- I get two pages overlaid. . . Anybody else ?
FRC, Yknow Im confused. You seem to imply legal immigrants are just fine and just as anxious to round up and deport illegal immigrants as you would be, but youre all bent out of shape by "Si se puede"? Do you think only illegals' first language is spanish? How does a guy pander to a bunch of people who cant vote anyway?
Where are you going with this?
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.