Not sure if it has already been said LiG, but your idea to get them the subscription is a step in the right direction. Remember, most "americans" don't really understand design and think (in your words) that a target down the road is good cause it's construction and thus they assume it's good for architects too!
I say EDUCATE them, before they fork over the cash for that catalog house!
Great thread, I am going through almost the exact same thing as you...
The positive is that I am designing the house...
The negatives are:
- All they know and want is the McMansion...
- a common quote from them, "That's too contemporary, we don't like that contemporary stuff."
- what was said in a previous post is true, my mom NEVER stops looking through those crap ass magazines to piece mill 80 ideas into one room and is constantly having a new idea.
- they have "made friends" with and chosen the cookie cutter builder and mr. builder's wife who loves to do some interior decorating on the side...
- the "your always my little boy and we know what's best" syndrome is true as well, it drives me up the wall when I give them advice based on sound reasoning and all I get is a "No, I don't think so, your going to have to learn...(insert comment)
At this point what I am trying to do is give them a sound structural plan with intelligent space layout based on site and living conditions but I pretty much have no hope of winning the battle on materials and finishes...all the builder knows and does is (and I love this title so much it make me yack) "Custom Home" finishes and that is probably what my mom wants...such is life.
Needless to say this house probably won't be going in the portfolio.
My parents did the same thing, theirs is actually under construction now. I let them have the exterior they wanted. I pimped the floor plan and am doing the interiors. This has actually been a much easier process as they have their contractor who is going to build everything and do all the structural / MEP, etc... I redesigned the floor plan within the existing shell and left everything basically where it was, but improved upon their accepted design.
This gives them ownership and allows me to interject some design sensibilities at the same time. Now, of course "mama knows best" and ignored some of my changes and despite me repeatedly telling them not to make changes, went in and started moving walls without regard to the finish or lighting plans so some things got screwed up. They changed "some" of the fixtures behind my back which is resulting in a mish mash of styles but whatcha gonna do.
Psychologically, I ended up playing referee between my parents arguments whereas they wanted to use me to make points to the other, but the problem is neither one of them would listen to my advice. All you can do, like a project with any other client is glorify the battles you won and downplay the ones you lost, but I wouldn't recommend against taking on the "parent's house". Look at it as a good opportunity to practice client relations and learn from the mistakes you made and why / how you didn't get your way.
Hmm... My folks keep toying with the idea of me doing they're retirement home once I'm out of school. Frankly it takes my mother 3 hours to decide on where to go out to eat on friday night, I'm not looking forward to dealing with her insanity when it comes to something as serious as a home. Not to mention the fact that everything I would think she likes she really doesn't and vice versa. My dad has almost the exact same taste as me and he likes modern design, especially designs that are highly sensitive to natural contexts. My mother on the other hand seems to want this "country french" crap, why do they all seem to want that? I thought it was just my mother who is crazy.
myriam....I was going to ask you if you wanted to join our Studio....but don't think you would be happy cause we work on
to many Connecticut Ramblers....you know those old New England
Houses which have bad additions added about every twenty years...and they want to to come in and make everything symmetrical.
ha ha, that could be a fun challenge, though! My old firm did an awesome addition to your typical cape cod saltbox, I was always sad that I just missed working on that project.
I did an addition for my parents. Gave them a couple plans to look at and they came up with a better one. I sucked it up and drew it up. They have a great house now - no thanks to me, their failure as an architect child! I suck - but at least my parents are smart.
Come to think of it, all of my best projects have had great clients who made the thing better than I could on my own. I just hope against hope that I added something of value . . . at all!
Yeah don't do work with family. Designed an extension to my cousins house for a digital camera and a new hard-drive...we haven't spoken since. Now designing a 3 bedroom for my sister...care to guess the likely outcome?
Steven you did hit that one right on the button! Cheap....cheap.....cheap. My projects are usually
salvage operations. We have a nice cherry kitchen
counter which came out of a store renovation. It took
me about a year to get it into place but it does look
Grand. Been working on a bathroom for some time,
everyday I say have to get this project finished before the end of the year. Well end of year is right around the corner, so now I guess I have to push the completion date to Easter......Damn Slow worker!
Update: During my recent trip to Cincinnati, I was finally allowed the chance to take a gander on the floor plan and rendering of my parents' French Countryside Dream Cottage™. I did my best to remain politely supportive, without showing any hint of how I really felt about it.
The only saving grace (if you can call it that) is that my father seemed to think he could build this 1500 sf house with garage and full basement for about $100,000 including the cost of the land. He also thought he could use DryVit to get that stucco look shown in the rendering.
My boss told me earlier that basic no-frills residential construction in that area typically goes for $100-125/sf not including garage, basement, or land. I relayed those figures to my father, which damped his spirits a bit. I also made a point to show him the exterior of the DAAP building to illustrate to him what DryVit looks like after 10 years in Cincinnati's climate. That dampened his spirits even further.
We'll see what happens now... If it were up to me, I'd prefer to see them buy a pre-war house in Bellevue or Southgate and do some thoughful renovations as needed, but who knows.
I visited the "plan I pimped" for my parents... and there were some obvious decisions I wouldn't have made that they did, but overall, I was pretty happy. Most of these suburban projects come down to fixtures and finishes. if you choose nice finishes, contemporary lights, nice handles, modern paint colors, the house can look and feel very contemporary inside despite the exterior being very similar to the neighbors yet in another color...
"During my recent trip to Cincinnati, I was finally allowed the chance to take a gander on the floor plan and rendering of my parents' French Countryside Dream Cottage™. I did my best to remain politely supportive, without showing any hint of how I really felt about it."
No point in unleashing it here, since I'd be preaching to the choir. The trick is to figure out how to express it to my parents without coming across like an elitist snob who is trying to get them to provide a palette upon which to act out his own architectural wet dreams.
actually LiG is totally going about this the right way. it's not about forcing your opinion, but you can and should offer information that will help them not make bad decisions. a lot of stuff looks good on paper, or seems like a good idea...but when it comes down the ability to execute it (money on materials, the right contractor, etc.) some people's ideas about what they want are not possible or will be very costly...this is part of our job. to make sure that what happens takes all of this into consideration, in fact it's probably the most difficult part of the profession. good going LiG. you're travelling the right path. it's not about forcing, but just help them to make good decisions. have you looked into custom modular companies in the area? they can allow a great deal of freedom, a more stable workforce, and factory controlled conditions... just a thought.
is there something that can be given up to get a nicer exterior material? will stucco weather well in cincinnati (i doubt it)....so these are good things to bring up. maybe they want to try and find a way to do brick, or cedar.
can you get them to consider something other than vinyl windows? you can actually find companies out there that make thermally broken aluminum windows (check to see if they will work in your area) or fiberglass faced windows (trust me there's a real visual difference) or would they rather get a nice all wood window. these are important things to think about and budget for.......
Bumping an old thread - I just got my first commission (unpaid) to build something small for my parents.
They intially got a contractor (without talking to me) who wrote up the contract already. They kind of mentioned it to me as a side note one weekend I was up there and they were about to sign the contract. I said "what?! Let me see the contract!" It was a lump sum without it broken down in detail. Yes, its a small building, but its not that small of a project. And it turns out that didn't include the required signed and sealed drawings which my parents didn't have anyway.
I'm not a registered architect yet so I'll be working with a structural engineer who will work with me to design this thing (and ultimately sign and seal but I didn't get him just to sign and seal). It'll either be fun or a nightmare. Either way, I'm hoping to learn a lot from the experience. Wish me luck!
This is a topic about parents and their children, not about architecture.
LIG's original post could apply to me, almost verbatim, except that my folks aren't really interested in undertaking to build a house. But any helpful comment I offer on any of my dad's little household-remodel projects (use greenboard, not regular gyp board; center the window in the wall, etc) is met with the look of a dad seeing his 10-year-old boy. "I know what I'm doing, son." No, you don't, Dad.
Three degrees, a professional license, and twenty years in the profession... and nothing. I'm still ten in their eyes.
Reasons that after a lot of consideration, I decided to do it myself for free.
1. I AM a gambler. Blackjack anyone?
2. Working for family or friends usually doesn't work because of the whole $$ thing. I'm doing this for free and probably will even pay the engineer out of my own pocket, considering they paid for college my first two years whatever my scholarship, grants and loans didn't cover. They also fed me, clothed me, and put a roof over my head for 18 years. I won't have to worry about the amount of hours I put in or profit at the end of the day. I just have to worry about keeping in budget (which won't be an easy feat either). If it goes overbudget, I'll dig into savings that I've been waiting to give my parents anyway.
3. They didn't ask me to do this, but I insisted because this is the place they'll be spending most of their time (their home business). The building that the contractor was going to build was going to be based off of drawings for a car garage from a book that they were going to alter slightly and get an architect to sign and seal. Two words: Vinyl Everywhere.
My folks bought the 2br, 1 bath vinyl sided vacation/retirement / waterfront home. My mother went into a deep depression about leaving behind the old home, being in too small of a home for her grandkids to visit (it's true, I won't very likely be visiting with my kid, because the house is too small) and being so far away from her friends.
My dad bought a sailboat to park out front, but since the 'waterfront property' is on the river, he can't get the sailboat to the house, because the water level in the river is too low, due to global warming.
My mother's depression deepened when she realized that they'd sold their old home for too little money.
They asked me to design them a new retirement home that would be large enough to have the grandkids over, but dropped the idea when I started to discuss budget - and realized that it was true, they'd thrown away the old house for a song.
Apparently, the vinyl waterfront vacation retirement home has risen well in value however, and so Mom is now "wishing I'd bought a couple more!" I suppose the depression has lifted.
I'm sure that would have gone just as well as the condo they'd "flipped" which sat empty on the market for 2 years before selling at a loss.
Update - I send schematic drawings to the engineer and parents to look at.
I tell my parents "These are some drawings at 1/8"=1'-0"
My parents: "You mean the drawing is a certain percentage of real life?"
Me: "Yeah, you need that to get it built!"
I love my parents, but I don't understand how they trusted the contractor and was willing to sign away without knowing. But then again, how can you blame them? How would they know? Do people other than architects really know what we do?
here's the email that i just received a few days ago from my father-in-law regarding the upcoming design of their mountain house...
Architphil,
Thanks for the questions. We have not been very forthcoming with our needs. (NO SHIT!)
I think for your part, we are looking for inspiration and ideas. With those, we can get someone to fill in the details necessary for construction in NC. (We want you to draw floorplans and elevations for free. Then we'll give it to a builder to muck it all up!)
We will probably be your worst nightmare for clients with our experience and budget. (Really? I think that this is going to be lots of fun!)
You are really close with your assumptions on size. (Imagine that! I actually know what I'm doing!)
For the main house, we want a master suite, a large combined kitchen, dining, living area with a half bath, one maybe two small bedrooms with a bath perhaps in a loft area and a garage/playarea downstairs with a bathroom and shower. Design elements to include, real fireplace with ash dump, gas starter and maybe an outdoor grill built in on an outdoor deck. So that translates to three bedroom, 2 1/2 bath up and a bath down. (We don't want you to do a detailed design, but we need you to figure all of this out.)
For the guest house, max 1k sq ft with a small kitchen, living area and 2 bedroom, 1 bath.
We like the idea of an "original mountain" house but neither of us want the "country" kitsch that goes along with that concept. Its kinda like the beach house. We wanted something kinda beachy but not florida style and of course your mother-in-law needs a screened in porch somewhere, there you go, a screened in porch with a bbq grill. hee hee
As far as budget, of course, I want to build it for $60/sq ft. (You're kidding right??? It's going to cost at least twice that.
I know that we won't be able to do that but at the same time, I think we are sold on the Hardee Board exterior and frame construction.
I like the idea of a sealed attic with Icynene Insulation. We like green ideas and new techniques. (Just as long as it is something that is not too new or too green and that we've heard of it before.)
One of the concepts to bear in mind is absentee ownership. We will be away from the property extended lengths of time and security is of concern ie. secure room in basement to lock valuables in and anything else you can think of that would give us a better sense of control when we are away. (I could take care of this if I was actually designing it, but you've already got it all figured out and just want some cheap sketches to give your builder so that you can say that you asked for my input.)
Hopefully, this gives you an idea of where we are with out thought processes.
So with this, we can expect to see floor plans and elevations by Thanksgiving, right? (Sure. Let me get right on that. I'll finish it up in the next month during my free time between working, doing PhD applications, and speaking at a seminar)
Your mother-in-law does have an idea of her fireplace wall,,,,,,,,,,,,,see attached (seriously).
Love,
Father-in-law
They don't want anything kitsch, but they want this. And they don't want a really log wall with chinking, they want to do it fake. :)
They haven't asked me about my designer discounts yet (I don't think they know about it), but they've certainly asked me for things like measuring the SF of their kitchen countertop and hardwood flooring so they can price out the replacement. I mean I'd be glad to help but is that what they think I picked as a career?
I don't know the stats, but I'm pretty sure people like my parents have been more exposed to contractors than architects.
architphil: In all seriousness, I think on this one you're better off letting the builder draw up some planes, then you tweak them. Based on that email, it sounds frankly like a nightmare to work for your in-laws.
Sixty/sf? No f'ing way. Get the builder to price it before your tweaks and after, so they can see that it costs little to do minor changes that make big improvements.
The "absentee ownership" thing means that if you design this, the day someone breaks in whiel they are gone they will blame you.
And their schedule is offensive.
Run away from this one, that's my unsolicited advice.
the schedule was actually a joke... they know that i won't even think about starting to work on it until after the 1st of the year...
i need to actually sit down with them to figure out what the hell they want... everything that my mother-in-law says seems to lead toward what you suggested... tweaking a builder's plans (or plan book) and doing a few sketches... everything that my father-in-law says leads more towards an actual design... everytime someone asks him about the house he says "ask phillip, he's the architect"...
i'm pretty sure that he realizes that $60/SF is ridiculous... i will certainly make sure he knows it once we actually sit down to talk...
i actually have a pretty cool idea about how to deal with the absentee ownership issue... but it is probably too "modern" for them to deal with... it will probably have to sit in my sketch book until/if i build our mountain house...
once we sit and talk i'll make the decision about whether it is worth my time and frustration or if i should just let them pick a plan out of a book... we'll see... it is such a great site... i hate to see it end up with some schlocky plan book chalet crap...
I think LB's statement "so they can see that it costs little to do minor changes that make big improvements" is an important one that applies to a lot of projects. This is what I usually mean when I say good design. Not necessarily fancy expensive materials and crazy form but on a practical real-life level.
My parents (again love them to death) are exhibit A for my belief that some people just don't care about their environment. They could be spending 60+ hours a week for the rest of their lives (no retirement plans) in this space but they were initially fine with a modified garage that would basically be a 8'-0" ceiling box with a couple windows and a door. It takes time designing, but with a couple hours of my time I can add some richness, better lighting, better ventilation, and a better flow customized to their work. Now if I don't fail miserably, they would be able to see that too...
A married couple of architects sadly note that her sister hired an unfamiliar architect who happened to share space with a close friend's architectural practice, for her big new house. Sister knew their friend was very suitable for project; couple was unaware of project until friend noted commission to them. Very awkward all round. Siblings and their parents live in same neighborhood, and their parents were very involved with project. Married couple were politely silent during project despite bad design and material choices, sloppy construction, negative gossip from office grapevine, poor contractor-client relations, dad's overactive involvement, etc. They were sad that their input was so unvalued by entire family. Sister never engaged them in any discussion during project as either information source or sounding board. Net result: one McMansion and a permanently damaged family relationship.
might be sad, but doing work with friends and family can be a nightmare. sometimes it's best to just let them eat their big mac, and serve fillet mignon to the customers you don't know as well that will appreciate it more.
"We've been looking at some floor plans..."
Not sure if it has already been said LiG, but your idea to get them the subscription is a step in the right direction. Remember, most "americans" don't really understand design and think (in your words) that a target down the road is good cause it's construction and thus they assume it's good for architects too!
I say EDUCATE them, before they fork over the cash for that catalog house!
Great thread, I am going through almost the exact same thing as you...
The positive is that I am designing the house...
The negatives are:
- All they know and want is the McMansion...
- a common quote from them, "That's too contemporary, we don't like that contemporary stuff."
- what was said in a previous post is true, my mom NEVER stops looking through those crap ass magazines to piece mill 80 ideas into one room and is constantly having a new idea.
- they have "made friends" with and chosen the cookie cutter builder and mr. builder's wife who loves to do some interior decorating on the side...
- the "your always my little boy and we know what's best" syndrome is true as well, it drives me up the wall when I give them advice based on sound reasoning and all I get is a "No, I don't think so, your going to have to learn...(insert comment)
At this point what I am trying to do is give them a sound structural plan with intelligent space layout based on site and living conditions but I pretty much have no hope of winning the battle on materials and finishes...all the builder knows and does is (and I love this title so much it make me yack) "Custom Home" finishes and that is probably what my mom wants...such is life.
Needless to say this house probably won't be going in the portfolio.
My parents did the same thing, theirs is actually under construction now. I let them have the exterior they wanted. I pimped the floor plan and am doing the interiors. This has actually been a much easier process as they have their contractor who is going to build everything and do all the structural / MEP, etc... I redesigned the floor plan within the existing shell and left everything basically where it was, but improved upon their accepted design.
This gives them ownership and allows me to interject some design sensibilities at the same time. Now, of course "mama knows best" and ignored some of my changes and despite me repeatedly telling them not to make changes, went in and started moving walls without regard to the finish or lighting plans so some things got screwed up. They changed "some" of the fixtures behind my back which is resulting in a mish mash of styles but whatcha gonna do.
Psychologically, I ended up playing referee between my parents arguments whereas they wanted to use me to make points to the other, but the problem is neither one of them would listen to my advice. All you can do, like a project with any other client is glorify the battles you won and downplay the ones you lost, but I wouldn't recommend against taking on the "parent's house". Look at it as a good opportunity to practice client relations and learn from the mistakes you made and why / how you didn't get your way.
no trustfund, but they don't need to win the lotto. they've done pretty well for themselves for career military/education
Hmm... My folks keep toying with the idea of me doing they're retirement home once I'm out of school. Frankly it takes my mother 3 hours to decide on where to go out to eat on friday night, I'm not looking forward to dealing with her insanity when it comes to something as serious as a home. Not to mention the fact that everything I would think she likes she really doesn't and vice versa. My dad has almost the exact same taste as me and he likes modern design, especially designs that are highly sensitive to natural contexts. My mother on the other hand seems to want this "country french" crap, why do they all seem to want that? I thought it was just my mother who is crazy.
Wow, thank *god* my parents are modernism devotees! PHEW!
...too bad they have no money.
myriam....I was going to ask you if you wanted to join our Studio....but don't think you would be happy cause we work on
to many Connecticut Ramblers....you know those old New England
Houses which have bad additions added about every twenty years...and they want to to come in and make everything symmetrical.
ha ha, that could be a fun challenge, though! My old firm did an awesome addition to your typical cape cod saltbox, I was always sad that I just missed working on that project.
Oh...we do awesome additions....that we do!
I did an addition for my parents. Gave them a couple plans to look at and they came up with a better one. I sucked it up and drew it up. They have a great house now - no thanks to me, their failure as an architect child! I suck - but at least my parents are smart.
Come to think of it, all of my best projects have had great clients who made the thing better than I could on my own. I just hope against hope that I added something of value . . . at all!
Yeah don't do work with family. Designed an extension to my cousins house for a digital camera and a new hard-drive...we haven't spoken since. Now designing a 3 bedroom for my sister...care to guess the likely outcome?
Only in a few rare instances have I found architecture and parents mixing well. Not in my case. And obviously not in yours either LiG.
Oh well...
If you can beat them, join them. French Countryside Woooooo!!!
designing for yourself may be just as bad (or worse) than working for family. cheap bastard won't shell out for anything good.
Steven you did hit that one right on the button! Cheap....cheap.....cheap. My projects are usually
salvage operations. We have a nice cherry kitchen
counter which came out of a store renovation. It took
me about a year to get it into place but it does look
Grand. Been working on a bathroom for some time,
everyday I say have to get this project finished before the end of the year. Well end of year is right around the corner, so now I guess I have to push the completion date to Easter......Damn Slow worker!
my aunt came to me and asked me about the water damage to her new flooring. i had no idea what to say.
If it is hardwood and it is warping.....there is no solution other than tear it out and start all over. The wider the boards the worse the problem.
Update: During my recent trip to Cincinnati, I was finally allowed the chance to take a gander on the floor plan and rendering of my parents' French Countryside Dream Cottage™. I did my best to remain politely supportive, without showing any hint of how I really felt about it.
The only saving grace (if you can call it that) is that my father seemed to think he could build this 1500 sf house with garage and full basement for about $100,000 including the cost of the land. He also thought he could use DryVit to get that stucco look shown in the rendering.
My boss told me earlier that basic no-frills residential construction in that area typically goes for $100-125/sf not including garage, basement, or land. I relayed those figures to my father, which damped his spirits a bit. I also made a point to show him the exterior of the DAAP building to illustrate to him what DryVit looks like after 10 years in Cincinnati's climate. That dampened his spirits even further.
We'll see what happens now... If it were up to me, I'd prefer to see them buy a pre-war house in Bellevue or Southgate and do some thoughful renovations as needed, but who knows.
''But it'll look so nice when it's finished!!''
I visited the "plan I pimped" for my parents... and there were some obvious decisions I wouldn't have made that they did, but overall, I was pretty happy. Most of these suburban projects come down to fixtures and finishes. if you choose nice finishes, contemporary lights, nice handles, modern paint colors, the house can look and feel very contemporary inside despite the exterior being very similar to the neighbors yet in another color...
I'll try to post some pics soon.
unleash it LiG...
No point in unleashing it here, since I'd be preaching to the choir. The trick is to figure out how to express it to my parents without coming across like an elitist snob who is trying to get them to provide a palette upon which to act out his own architectural wet dreams.
Give it up man.
The reason they chose the house is the same reason you want to be a certain kind of architect. Let them go. You will get many chances in life.
b.
actually LiG is totally going about this the right way. it's not about forcing your opinion, but you can and should offer information that will help them not make bad decisions. a lot of stuff looks good on paper, or seems like a good idea...but when it comes down the ability to execute it (money on materials, the right contractor, etc.) some people's ideas about what they want are not possible or will be very costly...this is part of our job. to make sure that what happens takes all of this into consideration, in fact it's probably the most difficult part of the profession. good going LiG. you're travelling the right path. it's not about forcing, but just help them to make good decisions. have you looked into custom modular companies in the area? they can allow a great deal of freedom, a more stable workforce, and factory controlled conditions... just a thought.
is there something that can be given up to get a nicer exterior material? will stucco weather well in cincinnati (i doubt it)....so these are good things to bring up. maybe they want to try and find a way to do brick, or cedar.
can you get them to consider something other than vinyl windows? you can actually find companies out there that make thermally broken aluminum windows (check to see if they will work in your area) or fiberglass faced windows (trust me there's a real visual difference) or would they rather get a nice all wood window. these are important things to think about and budget for.......
Bumping an old thread - I just got my first commission (unpaid) to build something small for my parents.
They intially got a contractor (without talking to me) who wrote up the contract already. They kind of mentioned it to me as a side note one weekend I was up there and they were about to sign the contract. I said "what?! Let me see the contract!" It was a lump sum without it broken down in detail. Yes, its a small building, but its not that small of a project. And it turns out that didn't include the required signed and sealed drawings which my parents didn't have anyway.
I'm not a registered architect yet so I'll be working with a structural engineer who will work with me to design this thing (and ultimately sign and seal but I didn't get him just to sign and seal). It'll either be fun or a nightmare. Either way, I'm hoping to learn a lot from the experience. Wish me luck!
This is a topic about parents and their children, not about architecture.
LIG's original post could apply to me, almost verbatim, except that my folks aren't really interested in undertaking to build a house. But any helpful comment I offer on any of my dad's little household-remodel projects (use greenboard, not regular gyp board; center the window in the wall, etc) is met with the look of a dad seeing his 10-year-old boy. "I know what I'm doing, son." No, you don't, Dad.
Three degrees, a professional license, and twenty years in the profession... and nothing. I'm still ten in their eyes.
Sigh....
Oh, and best of luck, Philarch. You will learn plenty!
I will never ever design anything for my mother.
She would be the worst client ever. Ever. Can't make up her mind for more than a minute.
Never ever work for family or friends, unless your really a gambler. It almost always turns disasterous -
Reasons that after a lot of consideration, I decided to do it myself for free.
1. I AM a gambler. Blackjack anyone?
2. Working for family or friends usually doesn't work because of the whole $$ thing. I'm doing this for free and probably will even pay the engineer out of my own pocket, considering they paid for college my first two years whatever my scholarship, grants and loans didn't cover. They also fed me, clothed me, and put a roof over my head for 18 years. I won't have to worry about the amount of hours I put in or profit at the end of the day. I just have to worry about keeping in budget (which won't be an easy feat either). If it goes overbudget, I'll dig into savings that I've been waiting to give my parents anyway.
3. They didn't ask me to do this, but I insisted because this is the place they'll be spending most of their time (their home business). The building that the contractor was going to build was going to be based off of drawings for a car garage from a book that they were going to alter slightly and get an architect to sign and seal. Two words: Vinyl Everywhere.
On #2, Philarch... you're a good son.
and we'd like you to sell your integrity and design us something so we can belittle your professional name to your colleagues and potential clients
way to go philarch, good luck. i hope your parents are happy with the end result!
and gambling wise, your stakes are limited: at least your parents won't sue you.
UPDATE:
My folks bought the 2br, 1 bath vinyl sided vacation/retirement / waterfront home. My mother went into a deep depression about leaving behind the old home, being in too small of a home for her grandkids to visit (it's true, I won't very likely be visiting with my kid, because the house is too small) and being so far away from her friends.
My dad bought a sailboat to park out front, but since the 'waterfront property' is on the river, he can't get the sailboat to the house, because the water level in the river is too low, due to global warming.
My mother's depression deepened when she realized that they'd sold their old home for too little money.
They asked me to design them a new retirement home that would be large enough to have the grandkids over, but dropped the idea when I started to discuss budget - and realized that it was true, they'd thrown away the old house for a song.
Apparently, the vinyl waterfront vacation retirement home has risen well in value however, and so Mom is now "wishing I'd bought a couple more!" I suppose the depression has lifted.
I'm sure that would have gone just as well as the condo they'd "flipped" which sat empty on the market for 2 years before selling at a loss.
WORD TO YR MOMS!
Update - I send schematic drawings to the engineer and parents to look at.
I tell my parents "These are some drawings at 1/8"=1'-0"
My parents: "You mean the drawing is a certain percentage of real life?"
Me: "Yeah, you need that to get it built!"
I love my parents, but I don't understand how they trusted the contractor and was willing to sign away without knowing. But then again, how can you blame them? How would they know? Do people other than architects really know what we do?
NO - especially parents!
my mother finally came to me for help - because i'm an architect - and i let her down.
she wanted to know if i had a designer acct w/flor so she could use my discount.
i don't.
would she like to boorow my restoration hardware discount card?
here's the email that i just received a few days ago from my father-in-law regarding the upcoming design of their mountain house...
Architphil,
Thanks for the questions. We have not been very forthcoming with our needs. (NO SHIT!)
I think for your part, we are looking for inspiration and ideas. With those, we can get someone to fill in the details necessary for construction in NC. (We want you to draw floorplans and elevations for free. Then we'll give it to a builder to muck it all up!)
We will probably be your worst nightmare for clients with our experience and budget. (Really? I think that this is going to be lots of fun!)
You are really close with your assumptions on size. (Imagine that! I actually know what I'm doing!)
For the main house, we want a master suite, a large combined kitchen, dining, living area with a half bath, one maybe two small bedrooms with a bath perhaps in a loft area and a garage/playarea downstairs with a bathroom and shower. Design elements to include, real fireplace with ash dump, gas starter and maybe an outdoor grill built in on an outdoor deck. So that translates to three bedroom, 2 1/2 bath up and a bath down. (We don't want you to do a detailed design, but we need you to figure all of this out.)
For the guest house, max 1k sq ft with a small kitchen, living area and 2 bedroom, 1 bath.
We like the idea of an "original mountain" house but neither of us want the "country" kitsch that goes along with that concept. Its kinda like the beach house. We wanted something kinda beachy but not florida style and of course your mother-in-law needs a screened in porch somewhere, there you go, a screened in porch with a bbq grill. hee hee
As far as budget, of course, I want to build it for $60/sq ft. (You're kidding right??? It's going to cost at least twice that.
I know that we won't be able to do that but at the same time, I think we are sold on the Hardee Board exterior and frame construction.
I like the idea of a sealed attic with Icynene Insulation. We like green ideas and new techniques. (Just as long as it is something that is not too new or too green and that we've heard of it before.)
One of the concepts to bear in mind is absentee ownership. We will be away from the property extended lengths of time and security is of concern ie. secure room in basement to lock valuables in and anything else you can think of that would give us a better sense of control when we are away. (I could take care of this if I was actually designing it, but you've already got it all figured out and just want some cheap sketches to give your builder so that you can say that you asked for my input.)
Hopefully, this gives you an idea of where we are with out thought processes.
So with this, we can expect to see floor plans and elevations by Thanksgiving, right? (Sure. Let me get right on that. I'll finish it up in the next month during my free time between working, doing PhD applications, and speaking at a seminar)
Your mother-in-law does have an idea of her fireplace wall,,,,,,,,,,,,,see attached (seriously).
Love,
Father-in-law
They don't want anything kitsch, but they want this. And they don't want a really log wall with chinking, they want to do it fake. :)
They haven't asked me about my designer discounts yet (I don't think they know about it), but they've certainly asked me for things like measuring the SF of their kitchen countertop and hardwood flooring so they can price out the replacement. I mean I'd be glad to help but is that what they think I picked as a career?
I don't know the stats, but I'm pretty sure people like my parents have been more exposed to contractors than architects.
architphil: In all seriousness, I think on this one you're better off letting the builder draw up some planes, then you tweak them. Based on that email, it sounds frankly like a nightmare to work for your in-laws.
Sixty/sf? No f'ing way. Get the builder to price it before your tweaks and after, so they can see that it costs little to do minor changes that make big improvements.
The "absentee ownership" thing means that if you design this, the day someone breaks in whiel they are gone they will blame you.
And their schedule is offensive.
Run away from this one, that's my unsolicited advice.
thanks LB...
the schedule was actually a joke... they know that i won't even think about starting to work on it until after the 1st of the year...
i need to actually sit down with them to figure out what the hell they want... everything that my mother-in-law says seems to lead toward what you suggested... tweaking a builder's plans (or plan book) and doing a few sketches... everything that my father-in-law says leads more towards an actual design... everytime someone asks him about the house he says "ask phillip, he's the architect"...
i'm pretty sure that he realizes that $60/SF is ridiculous... i will certainly make sure he knows it once we actually sit down to talk...
i actually have a pretty cool idea about how to deal with the absentee ownership issue... but it is probably too "modern" for them to deal with... it will probably have to sit in my sketch book until/if i build our mountain house...
once we sit and talk i'll make the decision about whether it is worth my time and frustration or if i should just let them pick a plan out of a book... we'll see... it is such a great site... i hate to see it end up with some schlocky plan book chalet crap...
absentee occupancy = shipping container house
I think LB's statement "so they can see that it costs little to do minor changes that make big improvements" is an important one that applies to a lot of projects. This is what I usually mean when I say good design. Not necessarily fancy expensive materials and crazy form but on a practical real-life level.
My parents (again love them to death) are exhibit A for my belief that some people just don't care about their environment. They could be spending 60+ hours a week for the rest of their lives (no retirement plans) in this space but they were initially fine with a modified garage that would basically be a 8'-0" ceiling box with a couple windows and a door. It takes time designing, but with a couple hours of my time I can add some richness, better lighting, better ventilation, and a better flow customized to their work. Now if I don't fail miserably, they would be able to see that too...
A married couple of architects sadly note that her sister hired an unfamiliar architect who happened to share space with a close friend's architectural practice, for her big new house. Sister knew their friend was very suitable for project; couple was unaware of project until friend noted commission to them. Very awkward all round. Siblings and their parents live in same neighborhood, and their parents were very involved with project. Married couple were politely silent during project despite bad design and material choices, sloppy construction, negative gossip from office grapevine, poor contractor-client relations, dad's overactive involvement, etc. They were sad that their input was so unvalued by entire family. Sister never engaged them in any discussion during project as either information source or sounding board. Net result: one McMansion and a permanently damaged family relationship.
Despite it being a sad story, I'm glad you're joining in on other discussions here, chicagowoman! Welcome to Archinect.
might be sad, but doing work with friends and family can be a nightmare. sometimes it's best to just let them eat their big mac, and serve fillet mignon to the customers you don't know as well that will appreciate it more.
Why does it have to be one or the other? Can it be Sirloin or a very well done burger? I do have a habit of taking metaphors too far.
my brother-in-law is also an architect.
he and my sister live about 15 miles from my parents, versus my wife and i (both architects) living about 1,000 miles away.
guess who gets to field the questions about choosing drapes or which vinyl window is best, "in your professional opinion"?
those miles is priceless.....
it can be a sirloin, if it has A-1 on it.
as for the burger, only if it has gorgonzola and guacamole and is either from red hawk or casey's tavern in ann arbor, michigan
wait, i thought we were discussing burgers here...
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