^ Agreed, its fucked up and not relevant. Ive always thought Lara was incredibly badass, its horrifying whats happened to her.


Another bit of lost news in all this is that sexual assault in egypt is an incredibly serious problem. I love arab culture, but this absolutely the sickest part of it. Its not unique them, as anyone whose been to india can attest, but its fucking appalling. And its hugely exacerbated by the police in a lot of these countries, half the time theyre the ones doing it.


I dont know. I was feeling so good about what they accomplished but this makes me sick.

Yeah, I'd question her going into that mess too. Attractive blond woman kinda sticks out. But she certainly is a trooper, what, was it just a day after being interrogated by the police all night (some would argue mild torture), flying back to the US, then back again.

Only takes a few bad apples to spoil the party.




Personally, admittedly selfishly, I would like to see some kind of stability sometime soon. The world's economies can't really take anything serious now. Higher gas prices are nothing, but a decade of no employment, higher dept (which means less social funding), etc., would make the first depression look like a bad dream, compared to a horror flick.

I don't think that will happen, but anything is possible.

errr... according to that chart Canada is one of the rapiest countries in the world. Bieber fever?


You gonna git Bieved.

^^ well, thats based on whats reported and recorded. I dont see DRC on that list. Still, its important to note, this shit is horrible everywhere.

Are you kidding Orhan? It is reported that 98% of the Egyptian women are harassed by Egyptian men and only %2.4 reported this to the police because they feared of hurting their reputation. A lot of women live in silence in lots of backward countries because they don't want to get interrogated by the police whereas women in civilized countries can take even a minor case to the courts hence the reported statistics.

Blonde women are a hot commodity in Egypt so what Lara did was very dumb but I hope she gets better soon both physically and psychologically.

Do you think it would be safer to wear your shorts and jog in the streets of Cairo or Vancouver? Get some logic and common sense please.

Orhan,


#2 South Africa has 1/6 our population. Clicking over to "per capita" is probably a much better indicator where we are #9. Nothing to be proud of, but definitely not #1 in the world.

there are nations where women can be executed for BEING raped. women are probably more likely to report rapes in western nations due to the liberal attitude toward women. i'm sure the US is not #1 in rapes, per capita, per person, or otherwise.

there are also different laws and different attitudes in different nations and cultures as to what constitutes rape.

and yes, i'm willing to accept the notion that the US is not perfect and may actually have the most rapes, but this just does not sound possible with all the lawlessness there is in the world.

i am sorry. numbers only apply to other nations. we are okay, you are okay.. please resume bashing arabs and africans for rape. it is more fun. isn't it? i am now going to go fuck myself... no that one is not rape.;.))

Yeah! Middle easterners should stop fucking themselves. That's America's job.

Say no to more outsourcing.

i don't bash arabs or africans for rape...

Which country is next waiting to fall? Will IRAN and jordan going to have trouble?

Saying America was number one in rape was the bashing. The numbers you posted don't even back up your argument unless you can find someone dumb enough not to understand why the per capita numbers are the ones that count.

I have no idea what the actual statistics are, and neither do any of us because of the huge disparity in reporting. I only brought up DRC because they have a well known institutional problem with rape a weapon of war, which goes way, way beyond anything you'll find almost anywhere else. Russia has a huge problem with it too. At any rate I dont think anyone can claim their culture is innocent of this shit.

Shifting the conversation a bit, theres one country's protests who seem to be conspicuously absent from US coverage..

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/02/2011216114058147154.html

Im telling you. 2 months. Then they break out the cyanide and Koolaid.

let's hope so for all our sakes

so the underlying theme is: "arabs (men) are horny animals, therefore they don't deserve democracy" ?
or is it: "arabs (men) can never be democratic, they're horny animals"?

well, can i say that if arab men were to be compared to animals in bed, anglo saxons are, by comparison, limpid white fish? well, if i based it on my own sexperience...

i'm never surprised to see that, when it come to this sort of matter, archinect comprises, politically, of a retarded group of troglodyte right wingers and, on par, a generically minded bunch of rhetoric-recycling liberalists whose sense of political corretness has paralyzed their critical faculties.

when it comes to the middle east, every yes is imbued with a kernel of no. if you can't understand paradox, you can't understand the middle east. its political spirituality is worse than a bazaar.

I have to say I agree with tammuz.

Tammuz, I had no idea you've had sex with so many 5th century Germans!

No Tammuz. Theyre separate issues, were talking about it because of Lara logan. Discarding the rape thing, because who knows statistically how it translates, from personal experience sexual harassment is a problem in much of the arab world, as it is in India, and a lot of other places. My girl feels the same way, you must understand how fucking unpleasant that treatment is for them. There are huge swaths of the globe where half the population just cant go without being oogled and harassed, no matter how they dress. This isnt my western anything, I just care about my friends, and I hate the way they are publicly treated in many of these places.

oe, the fact that you're discussing this sex thing within this post suffices. if they were seperate, you would not have subcuumbed to some subliminal resonance on another string.

since this is for you an interesting thing that is subliminally linked to our regional politics, you might find it interesting that, per an article i read, rallying egypto women stated that they werent molested in tahrir square, further stating that they were treated with utmost respect by their male counterparts. the article then went on to derive a theme from this...namely that the crisis of sexual harrasssment in egypt owed much to the frustrated psychosis of egyto daily life, its miseries and poverty...and that an empowered people, cleansed of this psychosis, are much less likely to subjucate others to its symptoms.

or is it a case of "excuses, excuses..."

tammuz:"i'm never surprised to see that, when it come to this sort of matter, archinect comprises, politically, of a retarded group of troglodyte right wingers and, on par, a generically minded bunch of rhetoric-recycling liberalists whose sense of political corretness has paralyzed their critical faculties. "

Well there you go. You, and your cynical, contrived, writing style (no capitals in any of the run-on sentences is a nice touch) are too good for this site. Bonus points for the elitist attitude of "noone understands (or could ever understand) this situation like I do". Bravo. You make birthers come across as reasonable to work with.

^ All you could counter is his writing style? At least s/he is got one and a voice to go with.
After reading what you've said upstairs, I think t a m m u z writes-thinks better than you and s/he has something to say.
His or her post is much less cynical and contrived than "a retarded group of troglodyte right wingers and a generically minded bunch of rhetoric-recycling liberalists" in Archinect.

led: the language of tammuz's posts really jumps out. Reminds me of a Village Voice article written by a 24 year old literature major from Columbia who fancies himself the next Hemingway. But with infusion of emo. 'Everyone and everything sucks forever'.

You may find statements like 'all Egyptians are drama queens' insightful. Good on you. I find such approach to be infinitely defeatist (and downright wrong), no matter how elegantly stated.

"...the article then went on to derive a theme from this...namely that the crisis of sexual harrasssment in egypt owed much to the frustrated psychosis of egyto daily life, its miseries and poverty...and that an empowered people, cleansed of this psychosis, are much less likely to subjucate others to its symptoms."

Listen, Im totally with you on this. I have no problem at all with the idea that that a huge amount of this is grossly enabled by decades, in some cases centuries of political hardship and trauma. This is an institutional problem in Egypt, as it is in Saudi Arabia and Russia. The US, under the most lavish economic and political circumstances, still bears the scars of slavery, racism, sexism, nepotism and corruption. Its hugely difficult for me to imagine growing up in a place and time without the successes that have made my life and life around me possible. Lara Logan was rescued by exactly the people who prove your point, that in even the fleeting moment of chaos that goes around a revolution like that people feel profound, empowered human empathy. I have no doubt whatsoever that what you say about women being treated with incredible admiration and respect is true, given what all those people were finally feeling after 30 years of that shit. You dont have to project any psycho-sexual social whatever onto me, people brought her incident up and I commented on it because even one event like this, whether it happens to some pretty blond vaguely famous reporter in a historic moment or some girl nobody knew at a lollapalooza concert, its still incredibly tragic and inexcusable.

that's a very interesting image

i am not a native english speaker, so i don't have much of a localized idiomatic english language. so...to be idiotmatic..."lay off" and stop commenting on my writing skills ("fancies himself the next Hemingway"), rustyhole. and fyi, Hemingway's use of the language is renown for its deliberate simplification. go read some hemingway rather than hemming in my way.
and you are far more of a cynic. i would not make fun, covertly or otherwise, of a 24 yo experimenting with writing skills in any case. furthermore, i don't use caps because i just don't...whats so special about that? i don't like caps, stop yapping around my ankle.

when i say "egyptians are melodramatic amongst the arabs" this in no way undermines their revolution or whatever you want to call it. its an interesting besides-the-point anecdotal knowledge that i'm furnishing; its neither racist nor is it belittling. the typical egyptian way of doing things is always overstated. i know, i work with too (yes too) many of them. watch their films and soap operas; anyone but the extreme fan would confuse them for intentional parodies.

so when i say, i know....and you don't..thats akin to an american telling me i don't know much about tennessee and they do. i am not offended. i can recognize an intimate knowledge of the middle east when i hear/read it. here, i see people, predominantly, falling into two camps of generic prepackaged opinion. so, i say shush.

lastly, i am not cynical apropos the egyptian rebellion. i just have serious doubts as to whether its more than catharsis. why? because i know how deeply we, regionally, are corrupt to the bone. our biggest problem is overcoming our own deeply entrenched system of corruption. will the egyptian individual change his or her own predisposition? this is more difficult to abdicate than mubarak.

allow me to sound even more snobbish. egpytians, en masse, unlike the tunisians, are not a very well educated nation. i believe, i might have mentioned this before, that this is perhaps, perhaps, due to the nature of british colonialism...contrary to the more culturally integrative franco-colonialism (tunis, maroc, lebanon...). to they realize what democracy really entails? or are they merely fed up with their despot? the latter question, if answered affirmatively, does not guarantee a change in their livelihood.

is this a laxative or is this a change in diet...therein the dilemma. only time will tell.

rusty,

You have this thing with the way people write - is there no leeway for those with english as a 2nd/3rd/4th language?

Have some patience man - not everyone has the time you seemingly have to craft faultless paragraphs.

Keep writing tammuz.

On another note, it appears that Benghazi has fallen. I get the distinct sense that this whole unfolding saga could be the biggest polticial/social upheaval I will ever witness.

diabase: If Libya is collapsing, any good for US architects?

Nothing! So why we spend so much time talking about this?

Because its more interesting than anything architects have done in 30 years?

I invest in oil and silver, so this basically is very good for me.

because it has ripple effects across the world. The prices go up, uncertainty goes up, that means economies will be nervous, which means less investments (and less construction).

So it does influence architects, in a negative way. Let's just hope this all quiets down soon, the state of the world can't really take much more.

Never mind the cost of things and the side issue of democracy, what about the sports?

We had the Olympics in China despite the totalitarian regime, lets not cancel the F1 Grand Prix because of the oppressed local population. My Sundays will be desolate. The immediate thing Bahrain needs is the F1 circus turning up to appease the Crown Prince.

The starting grid is already assembling

all nations enter a period of instability after a revolution. there are counter-revolutions, civil wars, and coups, not to mention unstable economies. none of these revolutions will be successful until the regimes, be they democratic or otherwise, are reinforced and given some margin of legitimacy either internationally, or by their own people. are there broader implications for an entire region consisting entirely of unstable regimes? obviously we aren't talking about the entire middle east, but definitely at least half of north africa, contiguously, is in revolt.

SO DO YOU PROPOSE TO HAVE YOUR COUNTRY'S ARMY INVADE...SORRY, I MEANT TO SAY...HELP THE PEOPLE THERE?
HAHA
NO MORE PROTESTANT ALTRUISM, PLEASE. GO PLAY WITH YOUR CHURCH SNAKES

i was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts on how high the stakes are for security in the middle east, and how that could potentially effect the economic recovery, particularly if the region doesn't stabilize itself.

protestant altruism? the last thing i want is wasting more money and human lives "helping"

what economic recovery? what economy? in those countries...there are two major economies. that of the elite associated to the rulers and that pertaining to the common people, piss poor most of them. the most extreme example: libya is a very rich country with a very very poor population.

in terms of security, as long as you guys i.e americans keep out of it, physically and politically...things can only get better or same or wose. after a v high body count in libya though i guess. this qadafi guy is a nero wannabe. ah, but the last thing these people want is an idiotic american backed by devious and greedy groupies. here's another fying shoe.


good, now tell your leaders not to waste more money trying to gain much more money by lying, stealing and killing.

the economic recovery in the US. i.e., we buy oil from libya and we design buildings all over the middle east, not to mention what we pay in taxes to support the pentagon. so yes, our economic recovery. last time i checked, obama and bush don't have my ear. i shook rahm emanuel's hand once, but i didn't even realize who he was until it was all over. the killing and bloodshed are extremely disturbing. my only hope is that the middle eastern world can finally gain some good from it by establishing free democratic states where they can determine their own leadership, take charge of their own resources, protect themselves from invaders, build their economies and hopefully chart the course of their own lives, for themselves, their children, and their children's children.

cmrhm:

diabase: If Libya is collapsing, any good for US architects?

Do you mean US as in 'collective' or US as in American? If the former I think oe has answered you, if the latter, then you are being rather narrow minded.

Oh you all...

Look it how cute it is that you all are being so Middle-East-centric! Acting like the Middle East is still relevant is what empowers it.

It's Rome circa 420 CE. A failed empire. The Ottomans done destroyed it!

Time to start kissing up to Venezuela, Nigeria, Sudan and Russia. Those countries still have significant resources. And our relationship with them is probably a lot more easily mended than the shithole that is the Middle East.

Middle East = Oil
Middle East =/= Water or food

Europe and Russia = Water and food
Water and Food = Oil

We can starve them out. Why do you think the EU dumps so much money into Turkey? Dam the Tigris and the Euphrates and all our problems go away.

glitter: "It's Rome circa 420 CE. A failed empire. The Ottomans done destroyed it!"

Whoa dude. That's a MASSIVE history fail. Off by a mere 1000 years.

Rest of the post is equally derptastic.

8/10

Thanks glitter centaur for your complete irrelevance

This is amazing

It's not a massive history fail.

It's a nod to the 'sack of Rome' that happened in 410 CE. The invasion of Rome by a foreign power last happened 800 years prior. Two decades prior to that, the Empire has already been split in two.

While Alaric I eventually ended up dying during his plundering of Rome, the Romanized Visigoths did end up relocating to the south of France in the centuries following the decline of the empire.

Shortly there after, the Empire split in a succession of smaller and smaller kingdoms, earldoms et cetera. Many of the post-Empire divisions have remained relatively unchanged while others disappeared completely.

The region known as the Middle East is similar. It enjoyed hundreds of years of seeming political and economic stability.

Whether it was under the Persians, Ottomans, caliphates et cetera, it was considerably a federation of numerous territories under a federalized monarchy. Despite the federalization, Arabia for instance has always maintained a number of independent kingdoms even during Ottoman rule.

Much like the Roman Empire and many European monarchies, monarchs in the Middle East usually ruled through a system of aristocrats that controlled various administrative districts. Obviously, when that federal system fails, these aristocrats seize the opportunity to secede and form their own states.

And similar to the Roman empire, administrative units (states) and empires themselves were heavily divided not just by religious identity but even on variations on similar religious identities (twelver vs, ismailism).

The Persian empire was already well into decline before the fall of the Ottoman empire. When the Ottomans fell, the federalization of the Middle East went with it.

Between 1900-1940, there's literally a dozen countries that have sprang up instantenously-- all claiming to have a significant independent history, all claiming to have a significant ethnic and nationalistic identity and all claiming to be infallible on these facts.

It took Europe nearly 11 centuries to sort out these problems-- albeit Europe didn't have Twitter, Facebook or 24 hour news coverage. Even after 11 centuries, Europe still want the Europe it use to be.

Do I expect the Middle East to instantly fix itself? No. Do I expect any of those people to act rationally? No. Is it still a seemingly functional place? Probably.

It frankly isn't that important. It happened. You can't change the past. You can only change the future. And this is an area very much still stuck in the past.

As for the "water for oil" part of my trolling...

People tend to think of the Middle East as a one way street... as in "Oil comes out, money goes in."

People frequently make the logical fallacy, that aside from oil, the Middle East is entirely independent from the rest of the world.

It's not. The Middle East frankly relies more on the rest of the world for basic life necessities and other trade commodities than the world depends on it.

As for the damming of the Tigris and the Euphrates rivers, it's already happening.

Middle East-- Wars are 80% water rights, 20% religious!

Now you're 2400 years off.

12/10 on failscale.