Do we believe that? Rachel Maddow tonight was reporting that a number of stocks were briefly free, while sothebys was for a few seconds trading at 100,000 dollars a share, making the company roughly worth the combined economies of the United States and China. I'll totally concede that Im neither a financial guru nor an algorithmic trading expert, but doesn that seem,.. impossible?
oe did they actually trade at that price or were they just priced there (for a few seconds). 'cause the price don't matter if there ain't no buyers. and omg what else did rachel maddow say?!?
I read earlier today that a number of those trades actually went through at those prices, though whether those trades were eventually voided I dont know.
In either case though, how could it be possible for even rapidly trading computers to be able to find 0 buyers in the entire market willing to buy those stocks above 1 penny?
And doesnt anyone find the "fat-finger" defense beyond credulity? Like musnt there be individual typos like this all the time? without instantly erasing hundreds of billions of dollars and almost destroying the stock market?
I hate to be all conspiracy-theoryey, but a statement like "I could have just made 500gs" in less than 20 seconds raises a certain level of suspicion for me. I mean if some hedgefund placed bets on those stocks or on the market losing 1000 points today it stands to reason they could have made 10s of billions on this 20 minute aberration. Is this really just computers gone crazy, or is it actually possible to hack the market?
yeah oeo i buy your buyers of 1 penny sam adams brewskies but my point was regarding sothebys (stock symbol BID, as in bid .. get it?) and whether anyone snatched up that great deal of $100,000 per share. 'cause if no one bought it, it never was worth the 6 zillion dollars maddow meticulously mentioned.
Huh, quite scary. Dunno where I fall, but I hear oe's skepticism. With so many fast paced trades a day, it would be impossible for people not to make hundreds, thousands, of typos per day.
If this is all it took, people would be f'ing up the market everyday, there'd be scams going on, people planning things like this and taking advantage of it, etc.
It'll be interesting to see what actually did happen (as in who made/lost tons).
Scary. Guns, water, booze and food still seem like solid investments!
yeah oeo i buy your buyers of 1 penny sam adams brewskies but my point was regarding sothebys (stock symbol BID, as in bid .. get it?) and whether anyone snatched up that great deal of $100,000 per share. 'cause if no one bought it, it never was worth the 6 zillion dollars maddow meticulously mentioned.
Right. well I guess even if a handful of poor bastards erroneously did, obviously no-one was ever going to be able to levy the price of the entire company. The value was obviously illusory, but again, doesnt even the posting of a crazy number like that seem mathematically impossible? Like wouldnt computers have to be buying shares successively at 50$, 60$, .. $1000, $2000 all the way on up without interruption? Wouldnt it require like 1000 people buying the stock above $50,000? Maybe thats the point about the proliferation of high frequency trading, but doesnt it seem like there would be lockouts that would prevent crazy inflations like that?
Ponder this for a moment; Accenture apparently went from something like $41 a share to $1 a share in that time span. Another thing, given the remarkable stupidity of day traders, it's easy to consider that such a wild day, had a lot, a lot to do with inexperienced barnacles. I mean, really, 16 Billion shares of P&G? Does anyone even think there are 16 Billion shares of Proctor & Gamble? I mean maybe there are but, that in a second 16 Billion get traded?
All the crazy shares will be eliminated, so anyone that thinks they made/lost a fortune will be waking up.
It all seems odd that something like this could happen, and even if it was 'real', how could you just tell everyone "sorry, that trade wasn't valid".
Although I did hear they are honoring PB at 39, which means some people made a hell of a profit overnight with one of the safest stocks out there (and a ton lost fortunes as they sold as things went down).
And to oe's point, wouldn't there be millions that have it setup to buy below a set level?
But thats kind of it right? I know there are huge genuine worries about greece and potentially greater eurozone, but the only real-world event that could explain a 1000 point drop would be a nuclear bomb or something. All of this happened in just a few minutes on no actual news. There are riots in greece, but thats been going on for weeks. Today they posted almost 300,000 new jobs in the US and the market drops another 200 points? Like at what point is this stuff just disconnected entirely from the actual real world? I think its a pretty sincere philosophical question; I mean we can bitch about barnacles if we want, but are the sharks making anything like common sense decisions? What is the purpose of this kind of market? How does this contribute anything to the greater real world growth of the economy and real people making and trading actual physical products?
And a lot of this computerized trading growth is happening in asia, so even if the Feds had some miracle breakthrough and got the NYSE under control, doesnt the casino just move there? Is there any global body that could hope to expunge this shit?
Today they posted almost 300,000 new jobs in the US and the market drops another 200 points? Like at what point is this stuff just disconnected entirely from the actual real world?
well since the unemployment rate went from 9.7% to 9.9%, maybe this stuff is connected to the real world.
But they all know why that is, that people who had given up looking for work finally have some hope were pulling out of this thing and have re-entered the labor market. Thats still a good thing, right?
well since the unemployment rate went from 9.7% to 9.9%, maybe this stuff is connected to the real world.
actually the unemployment rate went up because a lot of people who gave up decided to start looking for work when they heard that people are getting jobs. I was out of work for one solid year, and now I work as a temp in various architecture offices around San Francisco doing details in Revit. I believe the reason the stock market went down is twofold 1. Greek debt situation and U.S. debt situation.
Dow loses 1000 points in 10 minutes
Hey sooo... what the hell was that??
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/programs-nyse-circuit-breakers-contribute-to-market-plunge-2010-05-06-20900
Rollercoaster of funds
Say what?
Rollercoaster, yeah (ooh ooh, ooh ooh)
The Dow is like a rollercoaster baby, baby I wanna ride, yeah
The Dow is like a rollercoaster baby, baby I wanna ride, yeah
Do we believe that? Rachel Maddow tonight was reporting that a number of stocks were briefly free, while sothebys was for a few seconds trading at 100,000 dollars a share, making the company roughly worth the combined economies of the United States and China. I'll totally concede that Im neither a financial guru nor an algorithmic trading expert, but doesn that seem,.. impossible?
It sure was fun though. Perhaps it was some rogue traders pissed at Federal reforms going through congress?
oe did they actually trade at that price or were they just priced there (for a few seconds). 'cause the price don't matter if there ain't no buyers. and omg what else did rachel maddow say?!?
dow jones hit bottom^^
I read earlier today that a number of those trades actually went through at those prices, though whether those trades were eventually voided I dont know.
In either case though, how could it be possible for even rapidly trading computers to be able to find 0 buyers in the entire market willing to buy those stocks above 1 penny?
And doesnt anyone find the "fat-finger" defense beyond credulity? Like musnt there be individual typos like this all the time? without instantly erasing hundreds of billions of dollars and almost destroying the stock market?
I hate to be all conspiracy-theoryey, but a statement like "I could have just made 500gs" in less than 20 seconds raises a certain level of suspicion for me. I mean if some hedgefund placed bets on those stocks or on the market losing 1000 points today it stands to reason they could have made 10s of billions on this 20 minute aberration. Is this really just computers gone crazy, or is it actually possible to hack the market?
omg what a MOMENT OF EEK!
yeah oeo i buy your buyers of 1 penny sam adams brewskies but my point was regarding sothebys (stock symbol BID, as in bid .. get it?) and whether anyone snatched up that great deal of $100,000 per share. 'cause if no one bought it, it never was worth the 6 zillion dollars maddow meticulously mentioned.
oe, the B key is only 2 spaces to the left of the n, damn, the M key, so yeah, I believe it could have been a fat finger and not some conspiracy.
Huh, quite scary. Dunno where I fall, but I hear oe's skepticism. With so many fast paced trades a day, it would be impossible for people not to make hundreds, thousands, of typos per day.
If this is all it took, people would be f'ing up the market everyday, there'd be scams going on, people planning things like this and taking advantage of it, etc.
It'll be interesting to see what actually did happen (as in who made/lost tons).
Scary. Guns, water, booze and food still seem like solid investments!
Right. well I guess even if a handful of poor bastards erroneously did, obviously no-one was ever going to be able to levy the price of the entire company. The value was obviously illusory, but again, doesnt even the posting of a crazy number like that seem mathematically impossible? Like wouldnt computers have to be buying shares successively at 50$, 60$, .. $1000, $2000 all the way on up without interruption? Wouldnt it require like 1000 people buying the stock above $50,000? Maybe thats the point about the proliferation of high frequency trading, but doesnt it seem like there would be lockouts that would prevent crazy inflations like that?
Ponder this for a moment; Accenture apparently went from something like $41 a share to $1 a share in that time span. Another thing, given the remarkable stupidity of day traders, it's easy to consider that such a wild day, had a lot, a lot to do with inexperienced barnacles. I mean, really, 16 Billion shares of P&G? Does anyone even think there are 16 Billion shares of Proctor & Gamble? I mean maybe there are but, that in a second 16 Billion get traded?
All the crazy shares will be eliminated, so anyone that thinks they made/lost a fortune will be waking up.
It all seems odd that something like this could happen, and even if it was 'real', how could you just tell everyone "sorry, that trade wasn't valid".
Although I did hear they are honoring PB at 39, which means some people made a hell of a profit overnight with one of the safest stocks out there (and a ton lost fortunes as they sold as things went down).
And to oe's point, wouldn't there be millions that have it setup to buy below a set level?
Something smells fishy here....
I'm glad they weren't talking Nillions of Dollars.....then we would all be bent over with our heads between our legs kissing our asshes....good bye!
But thats kind of it right? I know there are huge genuine worries about greece and potentially greater eurozone, but the only real-world event that could explain a 1000 point drop would be a nuclear bomb or something. All of this happened in just a few minutes on no actual news. There are riots in greece, but thats been going on for weeks. Today they posted almost 300,000 new jobs in the US and the market drops another 200 points? Like at what point is this stuff just disconnected entirely from the actual real world? I think its a pretty sincere philosophical question; I mean we can bitch about barnacles if we want, but are the sharks making anything like common sense decisions? What is the purpose of this kind of market? How does this contribute anything to the greater real world growth of the economy and real people making and trading actual physical products?
And a lot of this computerized trading growth is happening in asia, so even if the Feds had some miracle breakthrough and got the NYSE under control, doesnt the casino just move there? Is there any global body that could hope to expunge this shit?
well since the unemployment rate went from 9.7% to 9.9%, maybe this stuff is connected to the real world.
But they all know why that is, that people who had given up looking for work finally have some hope were pulling out of this thing and have re-entered the labor market. Thats still a good thing, right?
Frac
well since the unemployment rate went from 9.7% to 9.9%, maybe this stuff is connected to the real world.
actually the unemployment rate went up because a lot of people who gave up decided to start looking for work when they heard that people are getting jobs. I was out of work for one solid year, and now I work as a temp in various architecture offices around San Francisco doing details in Revit. I believe the reason the stock market went down is twofold 1. Greek debt situation and U.S. debt situation.
it was a set up, not human error... there were tons of short futures added minutes before the deep drop.
dow jones hit may 5th bottom @98xx on 25th may, i think the guy pressed the wrong date not price on may 5th^^
i truely think dj hit bottom on may 5th (as said it before)
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