Is being under-employed a fate worse then being un-employed?
You're tied to an office with low moral, you don't get paid enough to make ends meet (or afford to look for another job), and they expect you to produce just as much in 32 hours as you previously did in 40 with twice as many folks.
Anybody else in this same boat?
Should I just be grateful that I have a job?
My office recently put all staff at 32 hours a week & 80% pay following a few rounds of layoffs. Now it's wait and see if any of the big projects lurking on the horizon are more then a mirage.
the stress is almost as much as when you're a free agent in anticipation of the other shoe dropping. you're also unable to take control of the situation and pro-actively seek a better pasture...
i wasn't trying to make light of your situation tk, whether you're employed or not it has to be hard. i may not have any money, but i am glad i don't have to go into work everyday wondering if today is the day. but this will all pass and there will be greener pastures for us both
Holz and TK, I am in a similar situation. Maybe it is because I don't have a family to support, but I don't feel that anyone should be grateful just to have a job, even in this market. Although I have much sympathy for those without work right now... All of you will find the career path whatever it may be, because you deserve it, not because you are lucky!
At the same time, I don't think there is anything negative about having to take a paycut and a decrease in time since that is probably what is preventing more layoffs for now. BUT (and a big but here), the expectations should match the situation.
I've found though, expectations should be openly discussed with supervisors since they are not always intentionally pushing too hard. Or I've had certain situations where the expectations were based on my perception, not actual feedback.
Just because of my youth and foolishness (and I don't support a family), I would rather be unemployed if they are using the economy as leverage to manipulate you unfairly. If I had a family though, I would stick it out even then and use them as support - not my ideals and career goals. Its times like these you can see how calculating and bottom-line oriented people can be... What happened to trust, honesty, loyalty, hope, teamwork, and dignity in the workplace?
Whew, I have to go back to the Optimism thread. Think positive... think positive...
we are lucky to not have staff to keep paying right now, but if we did it would be very hard to figure out how to keep things going for everyone. i think it is just as hard on the owners as it is on the staff, especially since they KNOW the happiness of everyone rests on their ability to bring in more work.
slarti talks about how it would be different if he had family. i think for principals of most offices the staff are like family...can't imagine the pressure of being responsible for more than the 4 people i am supporting now in today's economy.
as far as the under employed thing goes, i don't know what to say... i have never been in an office where i wasn't expected to do the work of 2 or 3 people, but doing that without being well paid sounds horrible. with things the way they are perhaps there is little you can do.
hopefully your employers are not just playing on your fears...it certainly sounds like that is not so... in which case i guess it is worth hanging in there...while at the same time start looking for a position elsewhere.
my uncle tells me he always says it is best to hope for the best and plan for the worst. it is cliche but true enough. it may make things easier if things get crappy-er.
whats the 'statis' to being fulltime and being able to collect un-employment if you do get layed off?......is 32 hours full or are you still salary?... if they told you to work 32 hours...then work 32 hours...i could see if it was slow and they wanted to keep you around.... but if there's work to be done then you should still be able to collect 40
my office was told this morning that there no bonuses for this year. but that's not what has everyone down. if clients don't pay after christmas, people will start getting laid off. now we'll all be waiting for things to get even worse. i'm thankful to have a job for right now, but i'm totally depressed...for our entire industry.
i worked in a place that reduced staff hours...it was mostly a way of saying "we don't want to have to do layoffs." despite salary cuts and increased pressure they don't want to reduce their staffing levels.
also, I'll agree with M.Arch n unemployed. 80% is better than the 0% I get, too.
I was reading yesterday that during the Great Depression, unemployment peaked at around 25%, while wages dropped +40% for those who remained employed. Wage deflation occurred because many employers reduced working-hours, and therefore earnings. Working even as little as one day per week constituted "employed", but not necessarily construed at a living wage.
Today's "real" unemployment rate is believed to be at least 15%, counting people who are not presently collecting unemployment checks. Self-employed, under-employed, and longer unemployed are not counted in the rate calculation, which creates a too optimistic assessment.
In this terrible economy, working at reduced hours with reduced wages is still better than no job whatsoever. What's more, several states have noted already inadequate cash reserves in their "Unemployment Insurance Payment" programs, which raises question of how reliable unemployment insurance programs will be next year.
32 hours/week, so that's either 4 days/week, 5 days at 6.4 hours or some other permutation.
my biggest issue with the 80% is it feels like I'm a lobster in a pot that's slowly coming to a boil. We've lost our financial cushion just like being unemployed, yet are still obligated to go through the motions.
Every day you work buys you one more day until the next boom. Every day you work pushes your unemployment benefits eligibility one day further into the future in case this thing gets really bad. If you have a regularly scheduled extra day off you could easily turn that into a temporary side job, too.
I imagine it is hard for those of us not in the situation to realize how it feels. From the outside looking in, working 80% of the hours for 80% of the pay is better than being unemployed. I empathize with the stress you are feeling and hope things will turn around for you soon.
As far as the company is concerned, I think this is an admirable way to go, rather than having a big layoff and really putting you and some of your coworkers really into the cooker.
part of the burn out is that we did a few rounds of layoffs first, so we were already short staffed. then there are issues with some of who they let go and the cultural biases (or was it just economics) that were exposed by the selection.
but yes, plans for the extra 8 hours include both professional and family advancement. Maybe I'll even have a parachute ready when it's time to jump.
Dec 15, 08 10:40 pm ·
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Under-employment
Is being under-employed a fate worse then being un-employed?
You're tied to an office with low moral, you don't get paid enough to make ends meet (or afford to look for another job), and they expect you to produce just as much in 32 hours as you previously did in 40 with twice as many folks.
Anybody else in this same boat?
Should I just be grateful that I have a job?
My office recently put all staff at 32 hours a week & 80% pay following a few rounds of layoffs. Now it's wait and see if any of the big projects lurking on the horizon are more then a mirage.
80% pay is better than the 0% i receive
the stress is almost as much as when you're a free agent in anticipation of the other shoe dropping. you're also unable to take control of the situation and pro-actively seek a better pasture...
i wasn't trying to make light of your situation tk, whether you're employed or not it has to be hard. i may not have any money, but i am glad i don't have to go into work everyday wondering if today is the day. but this will all pass and there will be greener pastures for us both
folks will learn to get out and be creative to get some funds going. might be time to search into other areas of creativeness.
and for being under -employed...... try being self-employed... the money comes in waves and when it's low, it's really low....
tk, i feel your pain.
under utilized
under appreciated
under worked
and i keep getting thrown piles o' crap they said i wouldn't be working on. it fuckin rawks
Holz and TK, I am in a similar situation. Maybe it is because I don't have a family to support, but I don't feel that anyone should be grateful just to have a job, even in this market. Although I have much sympathy for those without work right now... All of you will find the career path whatever it may be, because you deserve it, not because you are lucky!
At the same time, I don't think there is anything negative about having to take a paycut and a decrease in time since that is probably what is preventing more layoffs for now. BUT (and a big but here), the expectations should match the situation.
I've found though, expectations should be openly discussed with supervisors since they are not always intentionally pushing too hard. Or I've had certain situations where the expectations were based on my perception, not actual feedback.
Just because of my youth and foolishness (and I don't support a family), I would rather be unemployed if they are using the economy as leverage to manipulate you unfairly. If I had a family though, I would stick it out even then and use them as support - not my ideals and career goals. Its times like these you can see how calculating and bottom-line oriented people can be... What happened to trust, honesty, loyalty, hope, teamwork, and dignity in the workplace?
Whew, I have to go back to the Optimism thread. Think positive... think positive...
that's a pity TK.
we are lucky to not have staff to keep paying right now, but if we did it would be very hard to figure out how to keep things going for everyone. i think it is just as hard on the owners as it is on the staff, especially since they KNOW the happiness of everyone rests on their ability to bring in more work.
slarti talks about how it would be different if he had family. i think for principals of most offices the staff are like family...can't imagine the pressure of being responsible for more than the 4 people i am supporting now in today's economy.
as far as the under employed thing goes, i don't know what to say... i have never been in an office where i wasn't expected to do the work of 2 or 3 people, but doing that without being well paid sounds horrible. with things the way they are perhaps there is little you can do.
hopefully your employers are not just playing on your fears...it certainly sounds like that is not so... in which case i guess it is worth hanging in there...while at the same time start looking for a position elsewhere.
my uncle tells me he always says it is best to hope for the best and plan for the worst. it is cliche but true enough. it may make things easier if things get crappy-er.
Out of curiosity, can you collect partial unemployment to supplement your income if you are given reduced hours like that?
whats the 'statis' to being fulltime and being able to collect un-employment if you do get layed off?......is 32 hours full or are you still salary?... if they told you to work 32 hours...then work 32 hours...i could see if it was slow and they wanted to keep you around.... but if there's work to be done then you should still be able to collect 40
/another reason why i don't agree with salary\
my office was told this morning that there no bonuses for this year. but that's not what has everyone down. if clients don't pay after christmas, people will start getting laid off. now we'll all be waiting for things to get even worse. i'm thankful to have a job for right now, but i'm totally depressed...for our entire industry.
welcome to the first Under-Developed Nation on earth
maybe you could take up competitions or write a book or something?
i worked in a place that reduced staff hours...it was mostly a way of saying "we don't want to have to do layoffs." despite salary cuts and increased pressure they don't want to reduce their staffing levels.
also, I'll agree with M.Arch n unemployed. 80% is better than the 0% I get, too.
I was reading yesterday that during the Great Depression, unemployment peaked at around 25%, while wages dropped +40% for those who remained employed. Wage deflation occurred because many employers reduced working-hours, and therefore earnings. Working even as little as one day per week constituted "employed", but not necessarily construed at a living wage.
Today's "real" unemployment rate is believed to be at least 15%, counting people who are not presently collecting unemployment checks. Self-employed, under-employed, and longer unemployed are not counted in the rate calculation, which creates a too optimistic assessment.
In this terrible economy, working at reduced hours with reduced wages is still better than no job whatsoever. What's more, several states have noted already inadequate cash reserves in their "Unemployment Insurance Payment" programs, which raises question of how reliable unemployment insurance programs will be next year.
Cut your spending to the bone.
it seems that now in this market, it will be getting a little worse before it gets better
i am thankful to have a job keeping me going through the spring at least, so that keeps me employed
we have been asked to work harder for less money so we can all pull through in these times
haha
but right now, it is easier to put in a little extra time for a little less pay than to actually find a new job
good luck to anyone looking out there, i wish you the best in these tough times
Tk does 32 hrs/wk mean that you only have to work 4 days?
Believe me, at 80% you are making plenty more than you would be on unemployment. I believe unemployment benefits max out at about $1450/ mo. in IL.
32 hours/week, so that's either 4 days/week, 5 days at 6.4 hours or some other permutation.
my biggest issue with the 80% is it feels like I'm a lobster in a pot that's slowly coming to a boil. We've lost our financial cushion just like being unemployed, yet are still obligated to go through the motions.
Every day you work buys you one more day until the next boom. Every day you work pushes your unemployment benefits eligibility one day further into the future in case this thing gets really bad. If you have a regularly scheduled extra day off you could easily turn that into a temporary side job, too.
tk: I trust that you're using the extra 8 hours per week to do something wonderful (to enhance your career or simply spend with your family)
I imagine it is hard for those of us not in the situation to realize how it feels. From the outside looking in, working 80% of the hours for 80% of the pay is better than being unemployed. I empathize with the stress you are feeling and hope things will turn around for you soon.
As far as the company is concerned, I think this is an admirable way to go, rather than having a big layoff and really putting you and some of your coworkers really into the cooker.
part of the burn out is that we did a few rounds of layoffs first, so we were already short staffed. then there are issues with some of who they let go and the cultural biases (or was it just economics) that were exposed by the selection.
but yes, plans for the extra 8 hours include both professional and family advancement. Maybe I'll even have a parachute ready when it's time to jump.
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