If in the U.S. we keep cutting taxes and our national debt is rising, how can we afford to give people back $600-$1,200? Are we just borrowing from China?
Does it strike you as not much more than a band-Aid on a gushing chest wound?
I'm thinking possibly. A different idea was mentioned yesterday, where instead of borrowing 150 billion? from China and giving it away to be spent on consumer products made in China, that we spend it on building two new lanes on the HWY from Maine to California, thereby creating more jobs, improving our infrastructure, and our economy at the same time. It struck me that this is what they did after the depression, isn't it, and that this may actually be a better plan.
Well, ok, I didn't mean it HAD to be hwy, just that using the money to create jobs instead of buying 'stuff' might be better. The example that I heard just happened to use HWY lanes as a method.
The funny thing is that at yesterday's debate it seemed like Huckabee was the only one that made exactly the point you guys are making. Simply, This package stimulates the Chinese economy not ours. So this is how an empire dies... and then they'll blame the mexicans!! sad, sad.
you know theres a lot of economists who will tell you that the New Deal stimulated the recovery at first however prolonged it until WW2 and the imediate 5 years after. The boom dint begin until 51/52.
how convenient that the govt. is going to send us all $600 checks only months before they pull the plug on analog tv. coincidence...i think not. they'll have to pry my analog tv from my cold, dead hands!
emaze, that's just what I'm going to do (suggestion #1)! I've been wanting a lighter/zippier bike for a while, and that'll just about cover it, especially if I can find one at the REI members 20% off sale.
more suggestions:
buy a solar panel or three
get a personal trainer, combat obesity
The problem as EP sees it is this:
1. Industrial Production based economy has strong dollar in 1960's
2. Emergent FIRE ( Finance Insurance Real Estate) economy emerges and demands cheaper consumer goods be made elsewhere starting a long decline of the dollar
3. Economy stays strong for 20 years as Real Estate and overseas investments profit.
4. Emerging High tech sector further fuels consumer driven society
5. Dollar continues to decline
6. Information based service economy shows modle parity with tech sector and FIRE; meanwhile domestic mfr. and production moves overseas accelerates. Dollar slides.
7. 25 years into the FIRE/info economy profit margins are squeezed by weak dollar and employees purchasing power reaches 75 year low only offset by cheaper imported goods. Debt levels continue to climb.
8. ( future tense) People get their heads out their asses and realize that Information society/ FIRE sector is ultimately built on a foundation of production and that real wealth and profit come from the production of goods, which inherently then need services. Without goods, no services. Congress declares America a Right to Work Trade zone and limits Union ability to strike. New era of production in the USA
actualy Im hearing crazy shit out of Motoraola employees - the core emergency comunications and radio business is at odds with the cell phone business and they already spun off their semiconductor business - the stock is in the tank and and it looks like MOTO is gona seperate into inividual companies. Great for the stock price.
i stimulated the economy by treating myself to 1 pair of gordon rush loafers, one pair of cole haan chukka, one sanyo coat and one andrew marc leather jacket. happy birthday to me.
Isn't there a income limit to the gov't checks? For those of you that are dual earner couples better go check your income and see if you're getting anything.
My guess is that I'll get squat. Then again, I wouldn't spend it on cigarettes and wild turkey anyway. The government is smarter than you think. They know the stimulus will just stimulate sales of high tax goods.
Taxes are obviously not a factor in the stimulus package, why would the government spend $150B to recoup maybe $70B in taxes?
The refund phase-out they are discussing looks like it will end up $75K-$90K, twice that for couples. If you make somewhere in that range you may get a partial refund.
"I can't say that I'm totally pleased with the package, but I do know that it will help stimulate the economy. But if it does not, then there will be more to come," Pelosi said.
if Nancy isn't totally please with the 'package', what hope do the rest of us have?
Now that the checks are as good as in the mail just heard someone speculate that Obama's coffers are about to overflow as the Obamatrons donate it all to him.
...wish i could claim credit for coining the word obamatron...
ok ... this may be slightly out-of-date because it was posted before the final action by Congress ... but this seems to be the deal:
Singles
Determine Eligibility:
If you earned less than $3,000 - unfortunately you’d get nothing.
If you earned more than $3,000 but paid no taxes, you’d get $300.
If you earned more than $3,000 and paid taxes, you get $600.
If you have children, add $300 per. Determine Phaseout Reduction: The phaseout levels begin at $75k and end at $87k, at a reduction of 5% per $1,000 over the lower limit. If you earn above $87k, you’re over and thus get nothing regardless of the math.
Couples
Determine Eligibility (appears to be the same as singles):
If you earned less than $3,000 - unfortunately you’d get nothing.
If you earned more than $3,000 but paid no taxes, you’d get $600.
If you earned more than $3,000 and paid taxes, you get $1,200.
If you have children, add $300 per. Determine Phaseout Reduction: The phaseout levels begin at $150k and end at $174, at a reduction of 5% per $1,000 over the lower limit. If you earned above $174k, you’re over and thus get nothing regardless of the math.
At $75k you and your husband pay a substantial amount of payroll taxes, ie. social security and medicare.
Those you cannot deduct and are the entitlements that will likely be very bankrupt once the baby boomer generation starts collecting. Say adios to that money...and don't forget your employer pays the other half you don't see.
There's also the taxes you pay to the state (minus a small handful of no tax states), and there's sales tax and a myriad of gov't fees for everything from licensing your car to paying a phone bill.
Bottom line is unless you are a gov't fee loader living off wellfare you've probably paid more in taxes than this check will be.
Economic Stimulus Package
If in the U.S. we keep cutting taxes and our national debt is rising, how can we afford to give people back $600-$1,200? Are we just borrowing from China?
Does it strike you as not much more than a band-Aid on a gushing chest wound?
I'm thinking possibly. A different idea was mentioned yesterday, where instead of borrowing 150 billion? from China and giving it away to be spent on consumer products made in China, that we spend it on building two new lanes on the HWY from Maine to California, thereby creating more jobs, improving our infrastructure, and our economy at the same time. It struck me that this is what they did after the depression, isn't it, and that this may actually be a better plan.
I don't think more highway lanes are the answer, but we could certainly put a lot of people to work building a true nationwide high-speed rail system.
Well, ok, I didn't mean it HAD to be hwy, just that using the money to create jobs instead of buying 'stuff' might be better. The example that I heard just happened to use HWY lanes as a method.
Mike Bloomberg: Build, Dammit!
The funny thing is that at yesterday's debate it seemed like Huckabee was the only one that made exactly the point you guys are making. Simply, This package stimulates the Chinese economy not ours. So this is how an empire dies... and then they'll blame the mexicans!! sad, sad.
a couple of great suggestions of what to do with your $600:
buy a bicycle and use it!
replace your conventional water with a tankless.
(others?)
You can apply a stimulus to a dead frog's leg and the leg will twitch, but that deosn't mean you've brought the frog back to life.
put your 600 in gold...hide it under your mattress
in the 30's, it was called "the New Deal"
but then again, that was F.D.R. , not George W. Bush
come on guys, it's win win!
the working poor get "free" groceries or utilities for a month.
thus allowing ceo's from exxon, wal mart et al. to receive an additional $150b to build toy boats with. we can call it "raw deal"
you know theres a lot of economists who will tell you that the New Deal stimulated the recovery at first however prolonged it until WW2 and the imediate 5 years after. The boom dint begin until 51/52.
how convenient that the govt. is going to send us all $600 checks only months before they pull the plug on analog tv. coincidence...i think not. they'll have to pry my analog tv from my cold, dead hands!
We need more casinos and dog tracks.
emaze, that's just what I'm going to do (suggestion #1)! I've been wanting a lighter/zippier bike for a while, and that'll just about cover it, especially if I can find one at the REI members 20% off sale.
more suggestions:
buy a solar panel or three
get a personal trainer, combat obesity
dwr, here i come!!!
you could buy some chickens...
The problem as EP sees it is this:
1. Industrial Production based economy has strong dollar in 1960's
2. Emergent FIRE ( Finance Insurance Real Estate) economy emerges and demands cheaper consumer goods be made elsewhere starting a long decline of the dollar
3. Economy stays strong for 20 years as Real Estate and overseas investments profit.
4. Emerging High tech sector further fuels consumer driven society
5. Dollar continues to decline
6. Information based service economy shows modle parity with tech sector and FIRE; meanwhile domestic mfr. and production moves overseas accelerates. Dollar slides.
7. 25 years into the FIRE/info economy profit margins are squeezed by weak dollar and employees purchasing power reaches 75 year low only offset by cheaper imported goods. Debt levels continue to climb.
8. ( future tense) People get their heads out their asses and realize that Information society/ FIRE sector is ultimately built on a foundation of production and that real wealth and profit come from the production of goods, which inherently then need services. Without goods, no services. Congress declares America a Right to Work Trade zone and limits Union ability to strike. New era of production in the USA
i already have a "stimulus package"...but it has nothing to do with the economy
puddles, I was wondering when someone would make that joke...
yeah...i usually avoid the obvious...unless everyone else does too
...my check will at least cover the Penske truck that I plan to rent to haul my stuff to a new state to begin the M.Arch program somewhere...
(knock on wood)
I heard it said that permanent tax cuts would be better than a temporary taxpayer lap dance.
who do you hear that from, ronny paul or g-dub?
Cavuto. Big fan of taxes, hm?
$600 / $4 per gallon gas = 150 gallons of free gas for me!!!!!!!!!
sandroad, don't have a problem with them as long as i know the money's being spent well, but ah, that is the catch.
$600 = iphone
buy your apple stock cause that shits gonna go crazy
into my house fund...
mdler - crazy as that is, it makes sense. Maybe I'll buy $600 worth of aapl, damn cheap now too
actualy Im hearing crazy shit out of Motoraola employees - the core emergency comunications and radio business is at odds with the cell phone business and they already spun off their semiconductor business - the stock is in the tank and and it looks like MOTO is gona seperate into inividual companies. Great for the stock price.
lottery tickets or going to an indian casino!
i can't wait for mine! that's 606 i-tunes!
i stimulated the economy by treating myself to 1 pair of gordon rush loafers, one pair of cole haan chukka, one sanyo coat and one andrew marc leather jacket. happy birthday to me.
Isn't there a income limit to the gov't checks? For those of you that are dual earner couples better go check your income and see if you're getting anything.
My guess is that I'll get squat. Then again, I wouldn't spend it on cigarettes and wild turkey anyway. The government is smarter than you think. They know the stimulus will just stimulate sales of high tax goods.
Taxes are obviously not a factor in the stimulus package, why would the government spend $150B to recoup maybe $70B in taxes?
The refund phase-out they are discussing looks like it will end up $75K-$90K, twice that for couples. If you make somewhere in that range you may get a partial refund.
apparently Mexico City is the new hot spot. Im gonna cross the border and get me a job
So the now approved stimulus package...
If you don't pay federal taxes then you are not going to get the full amount, correct?
Also how many people actually pay federal income taxes?
"I can't say that I'm totally pleased with the package, but I do know that it will help stimulate the economy. But if it does not, then there will be more to come," Pelosi said.
if Nancy isn't totally please with the 'package', what hope do the rest of us have?
Now that the checks are as good as in the mail just heard someone speculate that Obama's coffers are about to overflow as the Obamatrons donate it all to him.
...wish i could claim credit for coining the word obamatron...
*pleased
so - does anybody understand exactly what sort of rebate goes to people who made more than $75,000 in 2007?
i know it's less than the full amount, but I can't find any specifics about how the reduction will be calculated.
ha! more than 75k? don't think anybody on archinect has to worry about that!
you'd be surprised ....
ok ... this may be slightly out-of-date because it was posted before the final action by Congress ... but this seems to be the deal:
Singles
Determine Eligibility:
If you earned less than $3,000 - unfortunately you’d get nothing.
If you earned more than $3,000 but paid no taxes, you’d get $300.
If you earned more than $3,000 and paid taxes, you get $600.
If you have children, add $300 per.
Determine Phaseout Reduction: The phaseout levels begin at $75k and end at $87k, at a reduction of 5% per $1,000 over the lower limit. If you earn above $87k, you’re over and thus get nothing regardless of the math.
Couples
Determine Eligibility (appears to be the same as singles):
If you earned less than $3,000 - unfortunately you’d get nothing.
If you earned more than $3,000 but paid no taxes, you’d get $600.
If you earned more than $3,000 and paid taxes, you get $1,200.
If you have children, add $300 per.
Determine Phaseout Reduction: The phaseout levels begin at $150k and end at $174, at a reduction of 5% per $1,000 over the lower limit. If you earned above $174k, you’re over and thus get nothing regardless of the math.
Babs...
From what i understand. Those who make that much will get nothing...
See
[url=http://www.mercurynews.com/personalfinance/ci_8204716
]link[/url]
woops
link
j, my husband and I make a combined 75k and end up paying about $300 in taxes after student loan interest, child and child care deductions.
aking, you paid $300 in income taxes.
At $75k you and your husband pay a substantial amount of payroll taxes, ie. social security and medicare.
Those you cannot deduct and are the entitlements that will likely be very bankrupt once the baby boomer generation starts collecting. Say adios to that money...and don't forget your employer pays the other half you don't see.
There's also the taxes you pay to the state (minus a small handful of no tax states), and there's sales tax and a myriad of gov't fees for everything from licensing your car to paying a phone bill.
Bottom line is unless you are a gov't fee loader living off wellfare you've probably paid more in taxes than this check will be.
time to spend your debt money on products made in china and at local stores that sell b.s. products.....
i say dont give the money out and actually pay the national debt..... or use the cash and give small business loans/grants.....
this government really is stupid
The funny thing is that no one, on wall street or main street, thinks it is a good idea. It failed once already.
It's all a big joke. All we can do is pray things don't continue to get worse.
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