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holz.box

so after all the TC posts, i've decided to post a passivhaus-centric thread for archinect. or as PHIUS likes to call it passive house. having worked on real passive houses, we'll stick w/ the germanic spelling, as the brits and irish do.

here are some previous PH-related discussions from the nect:
Is LEED Still Leading the Way for Green Building?
is LEED a load? (yes!)
passivhaus makes the NYT
thread central discussion on passivhaus

resources:
PHI
PHIUS
passivhaus history in north america
passivhaus datenbank (DE)
IG passivhaus datenbank (AT)
wiki
green building advisor's passivhaus for beginners
bruteforcecollaborative passivhaus primer
passivhaus california resources wiki



and to jump start this discussion, it was recently pointed out to me - that almost a years ago, i wrote this on the 'nect:
also, the USGBC is a ponzi scheme.

 
Jul 21, 10 11:53 pm
postal

so holz, you're a PH consultant?

and is a PH consultant required to be on the project in order to achieve PH certification?

also, what types of cladding have you used or find that work well with PH envelope design?

have you had a client with a programmatic idea that would conflict with PH and how did you perhaps resolve the issue? (courtyard, nanawall, or something, perhaps those aren't a problem)

Jul 23, 10 10:18 am  · 
 · 
holz.box

not a consultant yet... still need to pass the exam.

you don't have to be a PH consultant to achieve PH certification, but it definitely helps. PHIUS may change that at some point, though. there are a few PH projects being developed here in the NW, that don't have consultants.

cladding for PH envelopes? same as any other envelope. i prefer rear-ventilated rainscreens for pretty much all NW projects. PH works really well with these.

i'll probably end up being my own client for my first PH project unless something comes through with a potential project in anchorage.

courtyards can be done in certain climates and especially achievable w. larger building.

there are a few companies that make folding walls that are a lot more energy efficient than nanawall - my preference is mostly for lift slides, especially the ones that can tilt/ventilate.

biggest issues really seem to be with fireplaces (direct vent if super airtight) and dryers.

Jul 23, 10 8:58 pm  · 
 · 
This

article in USA today discusses Studio 804's current dire financial straights. One item of interest that it noted was the fact that the last two houses they have done are Passivhaus certified (or ta least in process of being certified). I knew they tried to make their houses sustainable but didn't realize they had shot for Passivhaus levels of efficiencies.

Jul 27, 10 2:04 pm  · 
 · 
smallpotatoes

thanks for posting that article nam - I am still surprised that home is still on the market at $190k. Have been following Rockhill for years and I hope this doesn't mean the end of his program which, imo, should be replicated across the country for arch students to gain building skills.

holz - PHIUS is looking good to me compared to LEED+ND. After getting a briefing on what to do with my "legacy LEED" status, I am even more convinced that the group is more motivated by profit than it's supposed purpose of greening our building stock. :(

Jul 27, 10 2:38 pm  · 
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207moak

We have a PH "pre-certified" by PHIUS. It's intended to be a spec house and the owner is a understandably hesitant in the current economy so we're in a bit of a holding pattern. I like that the certification simply targets energy use, which is really the major issue. That said, I think any client committed to achieving the rigorous PH energy standards is likely looking at the whole picture of materials, site, water usage, etc....

Jul 27, 10 4:13 pm  · 
 · 

small- i know i worried about the same thing. Especially as I have at times considered trying to get into the University of Kansas graduate program just for that program.

Jul 27, 10 4:17 pm  · 
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dia

Can anyone give me a quick precis on what the main tenets and principles of PH are? I know it is alot to do with a maximum amount of energy use per year per house, and that the building should be as 'airtight' as possible. Anything else?

Jul 27, 10 5:26 pm  · 
 · 
dia

I know my questions/assumptions are very simplistic,

Jul 27, 10 5:27 pm  · 
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holz.box

dia,

check your email

Jul 27, 10 6:15 pm  · 
 · 
dia

Excellent - thanks mate.

D

Jul 27, 10 6:49 pm  · 
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holz.box

yup

Jul 27, 10 7:12 pm  · 
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holz.box

i saw that article a few days ago, nam.

that really sucks. the project isn't too bad, especially for students.

i think the form is probably too foreign for most US patrons, especially in the midwest, though.

throw in a sh*tty RE market, and i can understand why it's not selling. hopefully they're able to get things going pretty soon. it's a really awesome model, i'd love to have had that kind of d|b experience. and 190k for a near NZE house?

and the comments on the page are friggin lame, especially from so called 'real estate' agents.

maybe they should move back to the modular kick so that they could move those puppies out west!

Jul 27, 10 11:21 pm  · 
 · 

holz, i hadn't even read the comments previously. I love how a couple of them end up ranting about Obama and Studio 804 take on green building as some sort of socialist representation.

Jul 28, 10 8:12 am  · 
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won and done williams

i think you have to take the comments seriously. if the only reason why people are not buying this house is because of the aesthetics, they have missed the point, and the students did miss their market. most modern architecture was not designed to be put on the open real estate market at a price accessible to your average buyer; it was designed for a specific client who had an appreciation for the style and talents of the architect who designed it. if the point of the studio is to create energy efficient housing for the mass market, i think the studio would be far better off to partner with pulte and come up with strategies to reduce the cost and effectively market their design to a mass audience. energy efficient design is too important to get bogged down in style politics. that really seems to be the failure of the studio.

Jul 28, 10 9:36 am  · 
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holz.box

most of the comments are from people that probably couldn't afford a house and love to hate on the web.

aesthetics aren't the primary reason - banks aren't lending money, and the only people i know doing work right now have gobs of it saved up and know they'll get a better deal w/ this economy than if they wait 2 years.

i don't think the studio's market has been energy efficient housing for the masses, rockhill stated that most of his buyers have been hipsters.

pushing their designs to a mass audience would mean they end up with kinkade-like houses. that would really be a studio fail...

Jul 28, 10 12:12 pm  · 
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won and done williams

it's always scary to bring your dad up as an example, but here goes. dad would love to "go off the grid" as he says, but i think the house in the rockhill studio would scare the crap out of him (and he even has a son who is an architect). it seems like a real shame when the aesthetics of the house trump what is really important, and that is energy efficiency. i'm not necessarily advocating for that image you posted above, but i think the overall form at least needs to be closer to aalto/wright than it is mvrdv in order to appeal to a mass audience (and ultimately, to address the problem, doesn't it need to appeal to the masses?) or else you lose people before the energy efficiency conversation has even begun.

Jul 28, 10 12:24 pm  · 
 · 
holz.box

207, i'd be interested to hear about the pre cert'd project if possible.

won,
i think the tactic of appealing to mass audience would make for a really boring design|build studio.

Jul 29, 10 1:21 am  · 
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Distant Unicorn

LOL, I'm more than likely related to this guy!

Time to hit up second cousins!

Jul 29, 10 1:43 am  · 
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holz.box

wolfgang feist dispells myths about passivhaus

1. You can’t open the windows in a passive house (PH).

On the recommendation of the PHI (Passive House Institute) every passive house has windows which can be opened. The technical ventilation system brings fresh air in, so you won’t ever find any stale air in the house, even if you don’t open the windows for an extended period e.g. during cold rainy weather. (That there is a lack of sufficient ventilation in a lot of buildings, even new ones, is the reason why we recommend ventilation systems; further information)
Yes, You can open windows!

Jul 29, 10 11:28 pm  · 
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holz.box

uni, which guy are you related to?

Jul 29, 10 11:29 pm  · 
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cayne1

Let's say you were working on a Passive House project for a generic, mass market audience in a humid continental climate, like New England (90's in the summer and 20's in the winter). How would you approach your insulation choices? The question here revolves around aesthetics vs. sustainability vs. budget.

It would seem that on one end of a spectrum, the "green" choice for insulation is dense pack cellulose with TJI's or doubled up offset studs - but this would yield a thick wall, like 18" or more thick (according to PHPP analysis). Conventional wisdom would seem to suggest that walls this thick wouldn't appeal to a mass audience in the US.
The other extreme of the spectrum would seem to be the least offensive foam, polyiso, used in a SIP which could make a wall about 11" thick (again, PHPP analysis). This would seem to be a more familiar wall thickness to your average US home buyer.
So...lower initial cost, "greener" message, - thicker wall vs. higher initial cost, one time carbon footprint weighed against the overall performance of the house - thinner wall.

Any experience or opinions or alternative views about this conundrum from the assembled masses?

Sep 9, 10 12:46 am  · 
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holz.box

cayne,

have you looked at assemblies other than SIPs? we've generally found they're not worth the money.

root design build's shift house is using them, however - and they are expecting an extremely tight ACH50 number.

have you looked at making building more compact/shifting eliminating windows or changing glazing to avoid massively thick walls?

i fooled around w/ PHPP and have a close to PH 2x6 w/ dense pack & 1" polyiso wall/r-45 roof/compact form and high SHGC,low U-value glazing for boston.

my thoughts on primary embodied energy of PH projects is that you'll be reducing the operational energy by so much that utilizing an intermediate insulation option isn't a bad choice. true, when you cut operational energy down 70% over code minimum, then those changes in using lower embodied energy materials become greater, but i don't see that as a negative. the goal isn't energy neutral housing (unless you want to dump tons of cash into CO2 offsets) - just extremely energy efficient housing.

also, i don't think 18" thick walls make PH more marketable to the masses, i think you can take the passivhaus as thermos analogy a little too far.

far from an expert, but if you want me to take a pass/thoughts on wall systems feel free to shoot me an email.

Sep 9, 10 2:23 am  · 
 · 
Helsinki

The aesthetic "problem" with the Kansas project seems to be a combination of a purity of form with a lack of common charasteristics that communicate "home" or (hate to use the word) "dwelling" - although the comments on the site are all just people mouthing off and kicking a project when its down, the real criticism of the project comes from the fact that it remains unsold.

Can't think why thick walls as such would turn the customer off - they are, at least in my experience - associated with security and warmth. Combine thick walls with some sleek, minimal overall form and hidden detailing - then you'll have a problem.

Sep 9, 10 5:39 am  · 
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holz.box

regarding high R value wall assemblies:
building science corp. has a series of reports on the functionality/cost/etc. of varying high R assemblies that may be worth a look.

Sep 9, 10 12:11 pm  · 
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holz.box

although that doesn't look at the environmental aspects of wall systems.

e.g. ICFs and spray foam are highly rated, but environmental disasters.


helsinki,
i don't think the fact that the project is unsold is an accurate critique... there are lots of really well designed houses that haven't sold in years, and that has more to do with a trashed economy and investor/homeowner trepidation than anything else.

Sep 9, 10 12:16 pm  · 
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brooklynboy

holz.box and Helsinki,

The Kansas project is priced much higher than the average house in the area. If the goal was to make money by selling the house, then they missed that. The house does look like it's high quality and I like the design. In another area, it would sell easily. I think it's interesting to compare this house to Chris Benedict's Bushwick apartment building.

Just to nitpick, the Irish are using the English-language spelling for the newly launched Passive House Association of Ireland.

Some more links:
Scottish Passive House Centre
New York Passive House
Passive House Dynamic Energy Modeling
International Passive House Association

Tomas O'Leary, cofounder of the Irish Passive House Academy, will be speaking at New York Passive House on September 28.

Sep 9, 10 1:15 pm  · 
 · 
holz.box

brooklynboy
the higher costs are probably the biggest hurdle. i don't know that they're goal was to make money, necessarily, just make enough to be able to do it again. i am in agreement on the design, it looks better than most houses in the area. i have yet to see images/plan of the bushwick apartment - do you have a link?

oh those damned irish. i'm just not able to write/say passive house without feeling like a tool.

NYPH seems to have a good system going w/ the lecturers. the local group kinda balked when i pitched a similar idea.

Sep 9, 10 3:55 pm  · 
 · 
Helsinki

Holz, didn't mean it as a critique of the design, but as a critique of the economic calculus. Also, I think it does no one any good to combine aspirations for (slightly) progressive residential design and ecological goals.

These things seem to be made for architects - so they see that a well performing building can also have integrity as architecture.

Sep 10, 10 2:53 am  · 
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brooklynboy

I'm trying to get some images of the Bushwick project. I'll post a link as soon as I do.

Sep 10, 10 4:13 pm  · 
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brooklynboy

This month's NY Passive House meeting with Tomas O'Leary will be at Pratt in Brooklyn. I'll update when I get more information.

Sep 18, 10 12:22 pm  · 
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brooklynboy

The meeting room at Pratt is set now for the NY Passive House event with Tomas O'Leary. If you're interested, please RSVP at the NY Passive House Meetup site.

New York Passive House

Sep 20, 10 3:22 pm  · 
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holz.box

the 5th north american PH conference will be held in portland, oregon from nov. 4-7th, if you want to throw it on your calendar.

Sep 20, 10 4:36 pm  · 
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qdpv

lengthy article from the nytimes: Can We Build in a Brighter Shade of Green?

Sep 26, 10 12:21 pm  · 
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brooklynboy

Also a video from the Times: Passive House

Sep 26, 10 5:51 pm  · 
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phuyaké

Looking forward to the meetup tomorrow BKboy, I think I'll be able to bring some coworkers along to this as well, it would be nice if I could get the rest of my office excited about PH design.

Sep 27, 10 6:40 pm  · 
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brooklynboy

Great! It will be nice to meet you, phuyake. Don't forget to RSVP.

Sep 27, 10 7:31 pm  · 
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brooklynboy

There is a new book out called "Recreating the American Home: The Passive House Approach", by Mary James

There is a small rendering of Chris Benedict's Bushwick project in the first chapter.

The diversity of the ten projects in this book is pretty amazing — from the restoration of an historic 19th century brownstone in Brooklyn, NY, to a large single-family home in the high desert of Salt Lake City, Utah. The book also includes affordable housing and a house in the hot and humid climate of Louisiana. Aesthetically, the houses are very diverse as well, although they are all fairly conservative.

Oct 6, 10 7:52 pm  · 
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holz.box
although they are all fairly conservative.

yeah... we need some stronger architects to really change that momentum...

Oct 7, 10 2:03 am  · 
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brooklynboy

It's certainly possible to create good-looking architecture that also meets the Passive House standards. Here is a PDF of the 2010 Passive House Architecture Award winners.

A photo of the Studio 804 house we talked about earlier.
Prescott Passive House

And this is what comes up on a real estate site as a comparable house:

Oct 16, 10 12:35 am  · 
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holz.box

i'll take ill proportioned, fugly, leaky abortion for $400, alex.

Oct 16, 10 1:58 am  · 
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holz.box

anyone else heading to PDX for the exam and/or conference? due to economic woes, holz is only [bombing the] test.

also, importing windows could save CO2. take that, LEED.

Nov 2, 10 2:11 am  · 
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brooklynboy

Sitting on the Tarmac at JFK on my way to PDX.

Nov 2, 10 8:49 am  · 
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holz.box

yeeeah. that was f*cking painful.

Nov 5, 10 12:52 am  · 
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whistler

Well after having been involved in one ( Austria House Whistler ... google it )I was the coordinating professional for an Austrian Architecture firm and a conglomerate of technology / material suppliers called the APG ( Austrian Passiv-haus Group ). I'm not sure N America is ready for the whole deal, unless your name is hans and you like to where black and live in austere simple spaces ... hmm sounds like something and architect would like. The one I was involved with was the full on imported Euro package ( windows, structure, exterior finish and mech plant) complex delivery but important to understand its euro-centric roots via the crew we worked with, yes they could yodel and they wore laderhosen while working.... and liked their beer!. Local Contactor who I worked with to construct and manage the whole thing is now starting to fabricate his own version of the "package" to deliver to the market.

The goal was to bring the technology to North America and in doing so educating a small interested group of like minded builders, designers and strategic partners. On that level it was a success but still going to be a struggle. We recently finished converting the shell into a local XC biking/ skiing lodge and rental shop from the former Olympic Austrian House ( hosting venue during the 2010 Olympics). Its going to tough to yell at everyone to keep the door closed!

Nov 7, 10 11:39 pm  · 
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WonderK

How was the conference? I would have loved to have gone but was so knee deep in other crap I almost forgot about it.

holz, don't think you did well on the test, eh? Was it super technical or what?

Nov 8, 10 12:55 am  · 
 · 
brooklynboy

holz, congratulations on passing the exam!

New York Passive House is having another meetup, this time in Manhattan.

March 15: Jotte Seeghers presenting a variety of Belgium PH projects + PH 101/insulation.

Jotte Seghers, who some of you might have met at our earlier Meetups, will be coming over from Belgium to present a variety of PH project that he and his colleagues at BURO II & ARCHI+I worked on that side of the Atlantic.

A project of 24 PH apartments currently under construction.
A Passive neighborhood with houses and apartments in the design phase.
A Passive School delivered in 2006 and some individual Passive Houses.
Expect explanation of the design phase decisions, construction details, and a lot of info on used construction materials.

The event will begin with a 15-20 minute introduction to the passive house concept for those new to the topic by New York Passive House - we will emphasize PH insulation methods in this intro. This PH 101 will begin at 6:30 pm and Jotte will begin at 7:00 pm. A Q&A will follow.

Mar 3, 11 2:50 pm  · 
 · 
brooklynboy

More Passive House activity in New York:

In addition to the meetup mentioned above, NYPH is hosing a meetup about [url=http://www.meetup.com/NYPassiveHouse/events/16852227/]air sealing[/urk] on the 23rd.

April 12: NYPH member David White is preparing a two hour course focusing on moisture drive in walls and roofs of Passive Houses (and how to prevent if from becoming a problem). This event will be for NYPH members and certified consultants. More information about this event including time, place and RSVP to follow in next month.

April 15 & 16: Irish Passive House Academy will be provide an in-depth two day seminar on thermal bridge calculations for Passive House projects. Classes will be limited to 20 persons - located at Solar One, on Manhattan's East Side.

May 4-7 & 11-14: Irish Passive House Academy will conduct an intensive 8 day CPHC training in New York City.

June 13-17 & 20-23: Passive House Institute U.S. (PHIUS) will conduct intensive 9 day CPHC training in New York City.

Mar 13, 11 5:39 pm  · 
 · 
brooklynboy

Forgot to add:

April 18: Irish Passive House Academy two-day Passive House Introductory Course at the Trespa Design Center.

Mar 13, 11 5:49 pm  · 
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207moak
Passive Alaska
Mar 14, 11 6:51 am  · 
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holz.box

likewise, brooklyn! christ, glad to get that behind me.

207, i wasn't able to stick around for the conference after the insane exam, but did catch thorsten's presentation online (pdf) at the PHIUS website. the concept rocks (seasonal solar thermal storage) and is ideal for the three months of sun we get here in the NW as well. passivhaus allows the tanks to be significantly reduced due to minimized heating loads. unfortunately, like most PH projects in the u.s. - it leaves a lot to be desired, designwise.

werner sobek's haus r-128 uses a similar process but without the need for tons of solar collectors.

also, for those in the pacNW - passive house northwest's spring meeting is friday 18 march.

Mar 14, 11 9:19 am  · 
 · 

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