books, photographs, magazines, art, or music designed to excite sexual impulses and considered by public authorities or public opinion as in violation of accepted standards of sexual morality. American courts have not yet settled on a satisfactory definition of what constitutes pornographic material. orgiastic
1. of, pertaining to, or having the nature of an orgy.
2. tending to arouse or excite unrestrained emotion: orgiastic rhythms.
3. Sociology. (of an expressive crowd) reaching a peak of emotional intensity, often of an ecstatic nature and frequently expressed by uninhibited behavior.
O. George Bruder is like code for "my schizophrenic [br]other", isn't it?
That traditional symbol (like the doorway arch)
actually references
Frank Furness, Gravers Lane Railroad Station (Chestnut Hill, location of Mother's House), Philadelphia, 1883.
re: ad grand mosque, it certainly is a hyper-mosque but why would it fit the rhetoric here? neo-styles (neo-classical, neo-modernist, neo-abassid..etc) are not postmodern in spirit simply for referring and being faithful to historical modes. the building is completely non-ironical. i keep on planning to se it from the inside though.
Aug 17, 09 11:30 pm ·
·
Does 'ad grand mosque' operate within a realm of no clear rules beyond the immediate context of the situation?
Religious architecture, almost by definition, operates within a realm where there are clear rules beyond the immediate context of the situation.
I'm reminded of Frank Lloyd Wright's Beth Sholom Synagogue (1954),
where there are clear uses of ornament, albeit a modern building.
Symbolism, too, continues to be an (almost innate) ingredient of religious architecture.
St. Helena Church, Olney, Philadelphia (1950).
According to legend, St. Helena, feast day 18 August, discovered the 'True Cross'.
no official prayers allowed in any religious faith in hagia sophia in the background. that was a modern decision.
Aug 18, 09 1:06 pm ·
·
Orhan, it is interesting that a legal prohibition of official prayer within Hagia Sophia was deemed necessary, but I'm not sure what that has to do with architectural design and how architects design.
Or are you providing an example of religious architecture operating within a realm where there are clear rules beyond the immediate context of the situation, even when the rules are clearly anti-religious?
There are so many opinions and beliefs about pomo, perhaps because that's one of the things that pomo is all about - the ability to be many things at once.
To answer your question, the simplest way I can describe the shed is that formally, it's an archetypical shed (so it references other sheds through its materials, massing, proportion, etc.) but it's also got a pomo 'ironic' or humourous twist, in that the roof appears to have collapsed and started sliding down one end... There's a fight between the vernacular shed and my own ego wanting to do something that's just "off" enough that people do a double-take.
I'm making it all sound much more important than it really is, and that's starting to make ME uncomfortable.
that the poster titled the thread as he/she did and then added dot dot dot "discuss" made me want to take it as a joke, which I did. That statement has as much thought behind it as "punk rock music sucks" or "French films suck", which is not very much (but does not seem to stop some people from constantly making them).
i think continuing ayasofya mosque which originally built as hagia sophia basilica, as a museum has a huge meaning in it. it is often overlooked.
i think ayasofya museum is of the most significant museums in the world for what it displays, and what happened to the building since it was built. it is a reflection on the secular republic and putting a proactive stop to possible clashes since nowhere in the world people are into practicing different faiths together in a same building.
being a museum now, hagia sophia stands as a living exhibit of politics of faith, politics of power, the necessity of dialog, display and consequential discourse of real events with direct access to critique of religion itself.. the building itself is an amalgamation of all that but in a quasi positive way.
and the building's particular grandeur makes this all work in an important way.
if you know about hagia sophia, it is very interesting to know the actual and symbolic aspects of that first change order fom a church to a mosque. it is mainly done with a very light touches, shifting the access toward mecca, and on the outside with four beautiful minarets, done in different times.
after the second transfer, what the museum offers not anti religious at all, but mitigates the past culture and religion shocks and residual animosity.
i meant to say these are quite big building blocks without the physical translations.
if people want to talk about stealth moves and architectural theory, etc...
hagia sophia has a fascinating reading on it. i know robert venturi would really dig this argument, it is full of complexities and contradictions...
how do you apply massive messages on the buildings without building? that's where postmodernism becomes very useful because it has an addiction to narratives to the level of co-dependency. on the other hand, a particular modern construction we often refer as architects, is much more illiterate and physical.
i really enjoy looking at things in buildings that are not detectable to naked eye. i really think they are the main body of critique of all architecture in so called post modern. but of course there is a lot of visual stuff too as there is history of western civilization all the way to particular pop architecture. there are very particular references.
i realized michael graves' were on the light side when i visited his office on his princeton days when everyone in his office were drawing small prismacolor elevation drawings to be sold via max protetch.
these are some thoughts as now i am inspired to look into turning this post into a short article in turkish.
Aug 18, 09 9:21 pm ·
·
Perhaps you can title the article:
Quasi Positive Spin Surgury on the 1700 Year Old Heart of Greek Orthodoxy
or
Operation a Success; Patient Dead
Aug 19, 09 10:48 am ·
·
which Acropolis do you prefer?
2003.12.13 16:42
the Acropolis as used by the ancient Greeks?
the Acropolis as used by the ancient Romans?
the Acropolis when the Parthenon was used as a Christian Church dedicated to Mary?
the Acropolis when the Turks used the Parthenon as a munitions magazine (hence the 17th century (1687.09.26) explosion that pretty much wrecked the place)?
the Acropolis as mass tourist destination with the Parthenon ruins slowly being further destroyed by air-pollution?
the Acropolis Museum as viewing platform?
[multiple choice, I'm sure]
If I write an article about this I might entitle it:
I'd research the church's history within the Orthodox hierarchy.
I'd refresh my knowledge of the Fall of Constantinople.
I'd try to research/document as best as possible the change from church to mosque. (and, as a sidebar, research/document all the mosques that reenact S. Sophia)
I'd try to research/document how "Constantinople has continued up to the present day as the seat of a Patriarch of the Orthodox Church."
I'd try to research/document how the mosque changed to a museum. (It sounds like there may be some actual legistation, and, if so, I'd suspect the wording to be very interesting and informative.)
I'd try to research/document how the museum operates.
The pre-Justinian Church of Aya Sophia in Constantinople was burned Jan. 15, 532 A.D. The work of reconstruction was begun Feb. 23 of the same year, and the new building was dedicated Dec. 26, 537...
by the way, i know you'd like this info. the picture with obama i chose and as nobody point out yet, let me explain;
obama and the pm erdogan are entering the sultanahmet mosque, 1609-1616. aka the blue mosque, as turkish mosque style is influenced by hagia sophia directly sitting across it, and on the background of the photograph.
there are some meaning behind that of course. that is a huge punctuation on islam's own history and desire to 'id' itself as a continuing abrahamic religion via an imperial scale at the zenith of ottoman empire.
what i'd research, if obama and erdogan were at the museum before or after blue mosque?, knowing they visited both.
like this all entry sequence thing...
My memory is a bit fuzzy on this, but wasn't there an issue of ICON where FAT declared pomo would be back by the year 2015? and that they were therefore going to be ahead of the curve and start doing pomo now?
Aug 25, 09 9:41 pm ·
·
"In the future, all architecture will be post-modern for fifteen minutes."
OR
"What the hell's wrong with you?! You never seen a green architect before?"
Postmodernism sucks... discuss
books, photographs, magazines, art, or music designed to excite sexual impulses and considered by public authorities or public opinion as in violation of accepted standards of sexual morality. American courts have not yet settled on a satisfactory definition of what constitutes pornographic material.
orgiastic
1. of, pertaining to, or having the nature of an orgy.
2. tending to arouse or excite unrestrained emotion: orgiastic rhythms.
3. Sociology. (of an expressive crowd) reaching a peak of emotional intensity, often of an ecstatic nature and frequently expressed by uninhibited behavior.
O. George Bruder is like code for "my schizophrenic [br]other", isn't it?
That traditional symbol (like the doorway arch)
actually references
Frank Furness, Gravers Lane Railroad Station (Chestnut Hill, location of Mother's House), Philadelphia, 1883.
And don't believe everything Liz Taylor says, but boy can she act!
Gosh, postmodernism as a way of coping with terrorism?
Seriously: I'm not trying to be inflammatory or anything:
Where does this mosque fit in the world of Modern/Post Modern architecture? Or are those definitions as being discussed here solely Western?
re: ad grand mosque, it certainly is a hyper-mosque but why would it fit the rhetoric here? neo-styles (neo-classical, neo-modernist, neo-abassid..etc) are not postmodern in spirit simply for referring and being faithful to historical modes. the building is completely non-ironical. i keep on planning to se it from the inside though.
Does 'ad grand mosque' operate within a realm of no clear rules beyond the immediate context of the situation?
Religious architecture, almost by definition, operates within a realm where there are clear rules beyond the immediate context of the situation.
I'm reminded of Frank Lloyd Wright's Beth Sholom Synagogue (1954),
where there are clear uses of ornament, albeit a modern building.
Symbolism, too, continues to be an (almost innate) ingredient of religious architecture.
St. Helena Church, Olney, Philadelphia (1950).
According to legend, St. Helena, feast day 18 August, discovered the 'True Cross'.
no official prayers allowed in any religious faith in hagia sophia in the background. that was a modern decision.
Orhan, it is interesting that a legal prohibition of official prayer within Hagia Sophia was deemed necessary, but I'm not sure what that has to do with architectural design and how architects design.
Or are you providing an example of religious architecture operating within a realm where there are clear rules beyond the immediate context of the situation, even when the rules are clearly anti-religious?
PGUB,
There are so many opinions and beliefs about pomo, perhaps because that's one of the things that pomo is all about - the ability to be many things at once.
To answer your question, the simplest way I can describe the shed is that formally, it's an archetypical shed (so it references other sheds through its materials, massing, proportion, etc.) but it's also got a pomo 'ironic' or humourous twist, in that the roof appears to have collapsed and started sliding down one end... There's a fight between the vernacular shed and my own ego wanting to do something that's just "off" enough that people do a double-take.
I'm making it all sound much more important than it really is, and that's starting to make ME uncomfortable.
that the poster titled the thread as he/she did and then added dot dot dot "discuss" made me want to take it as a joke, which I did. That statement has as much thought behind it as "punk rock music sucks" or "French films suck", which is not very much (but does not seem to stop some people from constantly making them).
Discuss this.
oh, all right then.....BABIES SUCK!!!
LeDeuzzy, Q.,
i think continuing ayasofya mosque which originally built as hagia sophia basilica, as a museum has a huge meaning in it. it is often overlooked.
i think ayasofya museum is of the most significant museums in the world for what it displays, and what happened to the building since it was built. it is a reflection on the secular republic and putting a proactive stop to possible clashes since nowhere in the world people are into practicing different faiths together in a same building.
being a museum now, hagia sophia stands as a living exhibit of politics of faith, politics of power, the necessity of dialog, display and consequential discourse of real events with direct access to critique of religion itself.. the building itself is an amalgamation of all that but in a quasi positive way.
and the building's particular grandeur makes this all work in an important way.
if you know about hagia sophia, it is very interesting to know the actual and symbolic aspects of that first change order fom a church to a mosque. it is mainly done with a very light touches, shifting the access toward mecca, and on the outside with four beautiful minarets, done in different times.
after the second transfer, what the museum offers not anti religious at all, but mitigates the past culture and religion shocks and residual animosity.
i meant to say these are quite big building blocks without the physical translations.
if people want to talk about stealth moves and architectural theory, etc...
hagia sophia has a fascinating reading on it. i know robert venturi would really dig this argument, it is full of complexities and contradictions...
how do you apply massive messages on the buildings without building? that's where postmodernism becomes very useful because it has an addiction to narratives to the level of co-dependency. on the other hand, a particular modern construction we often refer as architects, is much more illiterate and physical.
i really enjoy looking at things in buildings that are not detectable to naked eye. i really think they are the main body of critique of all architecture in so called post modern. but of course there is a lot of visual stuff too as there is history of western civilization all the way to particular pop architecture. there are very particular references.
i realized michael graves' were on the light side when i visited his office on his princeton days when everyone in his office were drawing small prismacolor elevation drawings to be sold via max protetch.
these are some thoughts as now i am inspired to look into turning this post into a short article in turkish.
Perhaps you can title the article:
Quasi Positive Spin Surgury on the 1700 Year Old Heart of Greek Orthodoxy
or
Operation a Success; Patient Dead
2003.12.13 16:42
the Acropolis as used by the ancient Greeks?
the Acropolis as used by the ancient Romans?
the Acropolis when the Parthenon was used as a Christian Church dedicated to Mary?
the Acropolis when the Turks used the Parthenon as a munitions magazine (hence the 17th century (1687.09.26) explosion that pretty much wrecked the place)?
the Acropolis as mass tourist destination with the Parthenon ruins slowly being further destroyed by air-pollution?
the Acropolis Museum as viewing platform?
[multiple choice, I'm sure]
If I write an article about this I might entitle it:
Turkish Magazine + Spark = Explosion @ Architectural Wonder.
Here's my design for the Acropolis Museum...
Dont worry, if wasn't me who "lost his marbles"!
Purist perhaps in the sense that I'm most interested in the source material that's available.
Regarding S. Sophia:
I'd read Procopius, Buildings of Justinian.
I'd research the church's history within the Orthodox hierarchy.
I'd refresh my knowledge of the Fall of Constantinople.
I'd try to research/document as best as possible the change from church to mosque. (and, as a sidebar, research/document all the mosques that reenact S. Sophia)
I'd try to research/document how "Constantinople has continued up to the present day as the seat of a Patriarch of the Orthodox Church."
I'd try to research/document how the mosque changed to a museum. (It sounds like there may be some actual legistation, and, if so, I'd suspect the wording to be very interesting and informative.)
I'd try to research/document how the museum operates.
The pre-Justinian Church of Aya Sophia in Constantinople was burned Jan. 15, 532 A.D. The work of reconstruction was begun Feb. 23 of the same year, and the new building was dedicated Dec. 26, 537...
by the way, i know you'd like this info. the picture with obama i chose and as nobody point out yet, let me explain;
obama and the pm erdogan are entering the sultanahmet mosque, 1609-1616. aka the blue mosque, as turkish mosque style is influenced by hagia sophia directly sitting across it, and on the background of the photograph.
there are some meaning behind that of course. that is a huge punctuation on islam's own history and desire to 'id' itself as a continuing abrahamic religion via an imperial scale at the zenith of ottoman empire.
what i'd research, if obama and erdogan were at the museum before or after blue mosque?, knowing they visited both.
like this all entry sequence thing...
Pornography showing up since August 17:
August 19: sex under network culture
August 20: Rem Koolhaas and CCTV architecture porn: The Structural Similarity of the CCTV Headquarters and Hindquarters [images, links]- Danwei (China)
Hey, don't forget about the link to terrorism. Soft-terrorism, kiddie-terrorism, anything goes.
My memory is a bit fuzzy on this, but wasn't there an issue of ICON where FAT declared pomo would be back by the year 2015? and that they were therefore going to be ahead of the curve and start doing pomo now?
"In the future, all architecture will be post-modern for fifteen minutes."
OR
"What the hell's wrong with you?! You never seen a green architect before?"
post-mortem discourse
the seattle library doesn't suck. the 'character breakfast' featuring mickey and friends at the walt disney world swan hotel doesn't suck.
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