Biden impressed the hell out of me. I didn't feel strongly one way or another about him previous to the debate.
Now, this *may* have been fantastic acting. After reading (sorry to bring it up again) David Foster Wallace's Straight Talk Express article years ago I started being more aware of how candidates can, well, basically just act: make their eyes water up a bit, hold their mouths in a way that suggests emotion, etc.
But when Biden choked up, then visibly YANKED himself back into control, I practically cheered. If that was real, which I feel it was, that shows an amazing ability to focus on the task at hand. Damn, that's what I want in a leader.
Palin did amazingly well, but let's face it, if all we ask of our leaders is that they not publicly embarrass themselves, well, I see another 4 years of nasty egomaniacal disaster headed our way. Because yeah, I think Palin is, underneath it all, a selfish bitch. And I use "bitch" not in the way men tend to throw it at any woman they disagree with - she's truly mean-spirited.
No, Steven - I agree. They both played to their already established audiences, but I would've liked to have seen them try to make their case a bit more to undecided voters rather than rallying their bases...
What bugged me the most about Palin was how her demeanor and expressions would drastically change depending on whether she had an actual answer or just a memorized canned party answer. She would fumble around in her aw-shucks, wink wink, hockey mom banter for a few moments then switch into "regurgitation of the mock debate in my hotel room mode" - very annoying.
Biden is obviously more polished and has his/Obama's positions down cold to the point that it has comfortable and conversational presentation. Clearly, Palin is still learning the playbook and is lacking in confidence - which is understandable considering that Alaska's total population is roughly the size of a town like Memphis.
as if that matters, legeuse. look who we elected last time.
plain speaking and over-generalization works in a lot of these conversations. details, corrections, and explanation get interpreted as wonky and 'elite'.
i honestly think that a mccain administration would be better than a bush administration, that we've got a good choice this time between mccain and obama. i think mccain is smart and savvy - i just don't agree with him on many things.
biden adds real value to an obama administration; palin adds very little to a mccain administration except maybe an ability to sell unpopular initiatives to the conservative base. from last night, it sounds like she expects to have a major role and real responsibility, but i expect mccain chose her expecting that she'd stay out of his way - same reason the previous bush picked quayle. because of her regionalism, i.e., her lack of exposure to not only international but NATIONAL issues, i can't figure out what she adds to a future mccain administration.
Steven, i agree largely with what youre saying above. I think both biden and palin appealed to the right types of people. I think Biden might have helped impress some more technocratic-pragmatist middle grounders, and Palin may have helped impress some of the more conservative leaning middle grounders.
Youre last paragraph however hits on a really good point. Biden DOES add real value to Obama's ticket, but i think Palin adds to Mccains as well. As im sure you recall, the past 8 years have been largely based on 50 + 1 political maneuvering. Make sure you turn out all the conservatives, and youve likely won any election. It appears to me that Palin adds that value. No doubt in my mind conservative turn out will be significantly higher (despite the many, many gaffes) because of Palin's presence...
Though this may seem a political tactic; one only meant to win an election, consider this... How much more popular or perhaps successful would a Bush presidency with a Popular Right Wing Cheerleader VP have been?
When was the bar for being a vice presidential candidate lowered to "she didn't do anything embarrassing." That should be such a default condition it shouldn't even be discussed.
After the debates, all of the newz crewz (sorry, liberal media) were swamping the local bars interviewing people who uproariously praised Palin for her colloquialisms, and being "just like me" or "could be anyone from my town" or "makes me feel like I could do it." That scares me the most. I don't want my neighbor as vice president; I don't want myself, my aunt, or my substitute teacher in politics. I want to have someone I'm able to look up to and feel like is there because they are more articulate, intelligent, and knowledgeable based on a lifetime of experience in politics (present administration obviously excluded). I just don't get it. Will she be able to fall back on "I've only been here, like, 5 weeks, I don't get Washington politics" when she's speaking with world leaders, hostile countries, and the American people?
Biden could have crapped in his hand and ate it and the Dems would still have said he won the debate, when in reality, he did not.
Biden's were as much talking points as Palin's.
steven yeah thats what i meant... Palin could have a strong impact as a legislative cheerleader... and could prove effective especially in the house where necessarily more responsive to public movements.
on a personal note also id also like to thank you political posters of archinect because also for making my very first 1000 post topic also beacause after 4 or 5 years also... i never thought id see the day... but... doggone it... god bless ya
Eatme, Do you know what a fucking idiot you sound like? Crapped in his hands...Really? How can you make a statement like that and really feel like you are making a contribution? Maybe this is how you conduct conversations at work and at your home? If it is then I absolutely suggest you add neanderthal to your resume. If you choose to grace us with a response, it might also be a good time to enlighten us on why you are such a douche bag? Is it genetic: was your father or mother a douche bag? Maybe it was environmental: your neighbor/sibling was a douche bag? Whatever the reason, you might at least take the opportunity to explain the prepubescent cowardly drivel you've scrawled all over archinect.
Eatme actually has a valid point IF s/he is willing to admit that substituting "Sarah Palin" for "Joe Biden" and "the Repubs" for "the Dems" in his/her statement above is equally true.
We all cheer our own guy. Can you admit that, Eatme?
1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.
2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.
3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”
4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.
5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.
6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.
7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false
8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.
9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.
10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.
11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.
12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.
13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”
14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.
Did anyone else notice that she explicitly said that she wanted to expand the vice pesident's power into the legislative branch? This is exactly what Cheney has been doing and is shredding our constitution in the process. Why hasn't this been picked up?
I cant understand for the life of me why people think that was such a great debate performance. What? She like, completed sentences and didnt do the Ashlee Simpson Jig on stage? Is that really where the bar is? I mean this is the fucking vice presidential debate for christ' sake! I havent seen a more daft debate performace since Bentsen eviscerated Quale in 88'. Even her colloquialisms were so stilted and canned, I honestly strained to decipher a single substantive rational thought out of the whole night. I mean how fucking obvious and embarrassing was it when she was absolutely clueless on a subject and just bobbled and winked here way through talking points that had nothing whatsoever to do with the question being asked. I mean I may not hold much regard for the average americans ability to break down policy ever time, but people know when theyre getting shmoozed. Shes like a republican John Edwards, but without the actual acumen for abstract thought. I frankly find the gooey mush in the media over her patronizing and insulting.
"Palin may have played well to her base, but her base is the same 19% of dead-enders who still think Bush is doing a heckava job as President. Thankfully, those people won't be deciding this election."
This is as true as any take Ive seen on the debate. The brilliant political analysis of Rolling Stone aside, the response meters of independents on CNN were pretty telling, she flat out bombed strait across the board.
Im pretty convinced at this point the Rupublicans arent so much trying to win this election as just patch up enough of the right-wing bible-psycho vote to keep their political party from imploding.
i disagree with those of you who say it changed nothing. Yes Palin did better than most predicted. Yes, she spoke well to her base. The problem is that she did not come across as knowledgeable on the topics. As Palin said, "I've only been at this for five weeks." Any other time her folksiness might have been enough to win shallow minds, but these are trying times. In my opinion, the continual shift of independents heading towards Obama-Biden, well, continues. McPain can not afford to lose any more voters, but he is. Last nights performance did not convince people that McPain is the right solution.
oe, i don't think the rolling stone article is brilliant as political analysis at all. because i'm part of his choir, i chuckled along several times, but....this is not good political writing but destructive bridge-burning writing.
it's a frothing-at-the-mouth rant against palin and anyone who might possibly support her, bundled up with out-of-hand, non-empathetic dismissal of a major part of the american public. it's as if, in using the word 'caricature' so many times, the author thinks that exagerrating his caricature of who she is will make it all true.
the scariest was when she said she would expand the role in the legislature beyond just the 1 tie breaking vote the VP is allowed.
and her use of words like heaven,
first off, she stated the surge worked. this isn't necessarily true. when an area has been ethnically cleared out and people are afraid to leave their neighborhood, then yes, violence will die down. so we've basically been succesful at keeping people in the vicinity of their house and stopped any inter-tribal interaction. awesome, surely the sign of a highly functioning civilization.why, maybe we should just build a physical wall around them! those work really well!
the surge will not work in afghanistan. any notion of that is ridiculous. after she was called out on this lie, she devolved into "the principle" of the surge, whatever the eff that is (uh add more troops? dooooy. the commanders in afghanistan have been saying that for years)
-current levels in iraq are still 10% or so ABOVE pre-surge numbers, not "the same"
phailin didn't answer any questions, looked very unprofessional and un-presidential, don't ya know by gosh by golly! if she is the standard for presidential candidacy, then sweet, my news anchor who's voice doesn't waver that much is more than qualified, and at least she's actually met foreign dignitaries! is "le base" full of special needs adults?
the cheap dig @ joe about not knowing what it's like to raise kids was just awful. when joe called her out on this, she showed no empathy and went into her gosh by golly routine. you stay classy, san diego!
or maybe you prefer the part where she agreed with joe, that yes, private citizens should be able to stay in their houses. whoops! apparently phailin doesn't speak for the mclame campaign! (ironically, second and third - and eighth - houses, yachts are eligible for those court ordered re-alignments - awesome)
um, biden didn't have to read off his freakin notecards (and thus, didn't look like the unprepared student)
what else what else...
ooh, she wants dick cheney-style power and wants to increase the unitary executive! sweet! what's left of our democracy will become an extremist theocracy.
aaaaaand lastly, krauthammer, the perpetual water carrier for the bush administration is now saying obama is more presidential - yikes!
oe, how is Palin like a Republican John Edwards? His marital indiscretion aside, Edwards was the policy wonk in this year's primaries. Maybe they both use colloquialisms and try assume a populist narrative, but I think this is an unfair equation: Edwards did use colloquialisms and used populist angst to make his point, but I don't think this was the extent of his argument or appeal at all. Rather, the breadth of his policy proposals and the degree to which they were a departure from the neoliberal policies of the past thirty years were what made me like him.
She has bangs! That is about all I picked up on and the botox was not working on the right side of her face....and who the hell put on the make up....her 17 year old daughter?
civil debate, please. why do we have to talk about makeup and botox? there's plenty here to discuss without resorting to that. i mean, i kept zeroing in on biden's bad haircut, but that didn't change my opinion of him.
both vp candidates were very civil and respectful. why can't we be?
Steven, Mine was a joke...you really don't think I was listening to all the mumble jumbo which was coming out of her mouth. She was so wired she couldn't keep on topic most of the evening.
Yea, sorry to rack on your boy. I offered the caveat about abstract thought to say I was making a stylistic judgment. Its just that goey, 'common-man' shtick is so transparently artificial I want to gag on a sweaty shoe. At least Edwards courtroom smooze masks a clever (if weaselly) politician, whereas Palin's masks perhaps the most insipid non compos since Dan Quayle.
I forgot Dan Quayle was also another Political with an Arizona Background. I recall walking by his house in Wickenberg twice and sometimes three times a day, when I was out walking the dog. That was after his Vice President years.
Biden looked sad and tired, and thoughts of his family (bless their hearts) took the wind out of his sails. Something tells me he is having second thoughts about this Obama Idol...you could see it in his eyes, the country could see it.
His choking up moment was totally a homerun for him, agree, dread.
They both looked very worn out at the end. Seriously, compare how chipper and smiley they both were at the beginning with how they looked at the end. You could see it was wearing them down, and why not? It's hard freakin' work talking meaningfully for a long time; when I do desk crits all day I'm a blob of jelly crying for a bourbon by the end!
People are shifting away from Obama / Biden, regardless of what the Biased Polls say. Keep in mind that most Bloogers (like archinectors) and Pollsters are people who have the free time to well, take part in biased polls / discussion. Republicans are often busy working and their numbers will show in Novemeber. Just like '00 and '04.
polls also target people will phones, land lines. i know plenty of 18-30 year olds that don't have a land line and thus aren't polled. so if polls are biased because repubs are too busy working, then you're in for a rude awakening when those young democrats go to the polls
Sarah Palin???
Biden impressed the hell out of me. I didn't feel strongly one way or another about him previous to the debate.
Now, this *may* have been fantastic acting. After reading (sorry to bring it up again) David Foster Wallace's Straight Talk Express article years ago I started being more aware of how candidates can, well, basically just act: make their eyes water up a bit, hold their mouths in a way that suggests emotion, etc.
But when Biden choked up, then visibly YANKED himself back into control, I practically cheered. If that was real, which I feel it was, that shows an amazing ability to focus on the task at hand. Damn, that's what I want in a leader.
Palin did amazingly well, but let's face it, if all we ask of our leaders is that they not publicly embarrass themselves, well, I see another 4 years of nasty egomaniacal disaster headed our way. Because yeah, I think Palin is, underneath it all, a selfish bitch. And I use "bitch" not in the way men tend to throw it at any woman they disagree with - she's truly mean-spirited.
No, Steven - I agree. They both played to their already established audiences, but I would've liked to have seen them try to make their case a bit more to undecided voters rather than rallying their bases...
What bugged me the most about Palin was how her demeanor and expressions would drastically change depending on whether she had an actual answer or just a memorized canned party answer. She would fumble around in her aw-shucks, wink wink, hockey mom banter for a few moments then switch into "regurgitation of the mock debate in my hotel room mode" - very annoying.
Biden is obviously more polished and has his/Obama's positions down cold to the point that it has comfortable and conversational presentation. Clearly, Palin is still learning the playbook and is lacking in confidence - which is understandable considering that Alaska's total population is roughly the size of a town like Memphis.
Fantastic article in Rolling Stone on Palin and the "deadenders" (a lot more than 19% unfortunately) noted above by LiG.
Warning - it's definitely biased and will probably piss you off and want to move out of the country if McCain/Palin win:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/23318320/mad_dog_palin
as if that matters, legeuse. look who we elected last time.
plain speaking and over-generalization works in a lot of these conversations. details, corrections, and explanation get interpreted as wonky and 'elite'.
i honestly think that a mccain administration would be better than a bush administration, that we've got a good choice this time between mccain and obama. i think mccain is smart and savvy - i just don't agree with him on many things.
biden adds real value to an obama administration; palin adds very little to a mccain administration except maybe an ability to sell unpopular initiatives to the conservative base. from last night, it sounds like she expects to have a major role and real responsibility, but i expect mccain chose her expecting that she'd stay out of his way - same reason the previous bush picked quayle. because of her regionalism, i.e., her lack of exposure to not only international but NATIONAL issues, i can't figure out what she adds to a future mccain administration.
She's such a redneck.
smart and savvy? really?
Steven, i agree largely with what youre saying above. I think both biden and palin appealed to the right types of people. I think Biden might have helped impress some more technocratic-pragmatist middle grounders, and Palin may have helped impress some of the more conservative leaning middle grounders.
Youre last paragraph however hits on a really good point. Biden DOES add real value to Obama's ticket, but i think Palin adds to Mccains as well. As im sure you recall, the past 8 years have been largely based on 50 + 1 political maneuvering. Make sure you turn out all the conservatives, and youve likely won any election. It appears to me that Palin adds that value. No doubt in my mind conservative turn out will be significantly higher (despite the many, many gaffes) because of Palin's presence...
Though this may seem a political tactic; one only meant to win an election, consider this... How much more popular or perhaps successful would a Bush presidency with a Popular Right Wing Cheerleader VP have been?
lletdownl - i agree that palin adds to a mccain TICKET, but i was talking about what she adds to a mccain administration.
ah, sorry, see your last line. ok, so we're saying the same: she can help sell the policies.
She probably does have valid experience selling ice cubes to eskimos! :)
When was the bar for being a vice presidential candidate lowered to "she didn't do anything embarrassing." That should be such a default condition it shouldn't even be discussed.
After the debates, all of the newz crewz (sorry, liberal media) were swamping the local bars interviewing people who uproariously praised Palin for her colloquialisms, and being "just like me" or "could be anyone from my town" or "makes me feel like I could do it." That scares me the most. I don't want my neighbor as vice president; I don't want myself, my aunt, or my substitute teacher in politics. I want to have someone I'm able to look up to and feel like is there because they are more articulate, intelligent, and knowledgeable based on a lifetime of experience in politics (present administration obviously excluded). I just don't get it. Will she be able to fall back on "I've only been here, like, 5 weeks, I don't get Washington politics" when she's speaking with world leaders, hostile countries, and the American people?
Don't forget shooting things. She's got experience shooting big, furry, things.
Biden could have crapped in his hand and ate it and the Dems would still have said he won the debate, when in reality, he did not.
Biden's were as much talking points as Palin's.
trace - that's a valid skill! BinLaden is tall and kinda furry...
steven yeah thats what i meant... Palin could have a strong impact as a legislative cheerleader... and could prove effective especially in the house where necessarily more responsive to public movements.
on a personal note also id also like to thank you political posters of archinect because also for making my very first 1000 post topic also beacause after 4 or 5 years also... i never thought id see the day... but... doggone it... god bless ya
Eatme, Do you know what a fucking idiot you sound like? Crapped in his hands...Really? How can you make a statement like that and really feel like you are making a contribution? Maybe this is how you conduct conversations at work and at your home? If it is then I absolutely suggest you add neanderthal to your resume. If you choose to grace us with a response, it might also be a good time to enlighten us on why you are such a douche bag? Is it genetic: was your father or mother a douche bag? Maybe it was environmental: your neighbor/sibling was a douche bag? Whatever the reason, you might at least take the opportunity to explain the prepubescent cowardly drivel you've scrawled all over archinect.
Eatme actually has a valid point IF s/he is willing to admit that substituting "Sarah Palin" for "Joe Biden" and "the Repubs" for "the Dems" in his/her statement above is equally true.
We all cheer our own guy. Can you admit that, Eatme?
Yes, and Biden Lied:
JOE BIDEN’S 14 LIES TONIGHT
1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.
2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.
3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”
4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.
5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.
6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.
7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false
8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.
9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.
10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.
11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.
12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.
13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”
14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.
Did anyone else notice that she explicitly said that she wanted to expand the vice pesident's power into the legislative branch? This is exactly what Cheney has been doing and is shredding our constitution in the process. Why hasn't this been picked up?
Post Nazi...you make me laugh. You sound unstable.
(Sorry about the caca phobia)
(and I think you may have misspelled Postal Nazi when creating your screen Name)
I cant understand for the life of me why people think that was such a great debate performance. What? She like, completed sentences and didnt do the Ashlee Simpson Jig on stage? Is that really where the bar is? I mean this is the fucking vice presidential debate for christ' sake! I havent seen a more daft debate performace since Bentsen eviscerated Quale in 88'. Even her colloquialisms were so stilted and canned, I honestly strained to decipher a single substantive rational thought out of the whole night. I mean how fucking obvious and embarrassing was it when she was absolutely clueless on a subject and just bobbled and winked here way through talking points that had nothing whatsoever to do with the question being asked. I mean I may not hold much regard for the average americans ability to break down policy ever time, but people know when theyre getting shmoozed. Shes like a republican John Edwards, but without the actual acumen for abstract thought. I frankly find the gooey mush in the media over her patronizing and insulting.
"Palin may have played well to her base, but her base is the same 19% of dead-enders who still think Bush is doing a heckava job as President. Thankfully, those people won't be deciding this election."
This is as true as any take Ive seen on the debate. The brilliant political analysis of Rolling Stone aside, the response meters of independents on CNN were pretty telling, she flat out bombed strait across the board.
Im pretty convinced at this point the Rupublicans arent so much trying to win this election as just patch up enough of the right-wing bible-psycho vote to keep their political party from imploding.
i disagree with those of you who say it changed nothing. Yes Palin did better than most predicted. Yes, she spoke well to her base. The problem is that she did not come across as knowledgeable on the topics. As Palin said, "I've only been at this for five weeks." Any other time her folksiness might have been enough to win shallow minds, but these are trying times. In my opinion, the continual shift of independents heading towards Obama-Biden, well, continues. McPain can not afford to lose any more voters, but he is. Last nights performance did not convince people that McPain is the right solution.
oe, i don't think the rolling stone article is brilliant as political analysis at all. because i'm part of his choir, i chuckled along several times, but....this is not good political writing but destructive bridge-burning writing.
it's a frothing-at-the-mouth rant against palin and anyone who might possibly support her, bundled up with out-of-hand, non-empathetic dismissal of a major part of the american public. it's as if, in using the word 'caricature' so many times, the author thinks that exagerrating his caricature of who she is will make it all true.
not a help.
<img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3091/2909496470_d751e8a3dc.jpg" width="300" height="300">
Oh I completely agree. "Brilliant political analysis of Rolling Stone" was meant to be sarcastic.
oops: debate flow chart
the scariest was when she said she would expand the role in the legislature beyond just the 1 tie breaking vote the VP is allowed.
and her use of words like heaven,
i like when she said John McCain must LEAVE.
mcfailin is flailin.
first off, she stated the surge worked. this isn't necessarily true. when an area has been ethnically cleared out and people are afraid to leave their neighborhood, then yes, violence will die down. so we've basically been succesful at keeping people in the vicinity of their house and stopped any inter-tribal interaction. awesome, surely the sign of a highly functioning civilization.why, maybe we should just build a physical wall around them! those work really well!
the surge will not work in afghanistan. any notion of that is ridiculous. after she was called out on this lie, she devolved into "the principle" of the surge, whatever the eff that is (uh add more troops? dooooy. the commanders in afghanistan have been saying that for years)
-current levels in iraq are still 10% or so ABOVE pre-surge numbers, not "the same"
phailin didn't answer any questions, looked very unprofessional and un-presidential, don't ya know by gosh by golly! if she is the standard for presidential candidacy, then sweet, my news anchor who's voice doesn't waver that much is more than qualified, and at least she's actually met foreign dignitaries! is "le base" full of special needs adults?
the cheap dig @ joe about not knowing what it's like to raise kids was just awful. when joe called her out on this, she showed no empathy and went into her gosh by golly routine. you stay classy, san diego!
or maybe you prefer the part where she agreed with joe, that yes, private citizens should be able to stay in their houses. whoops! apparently phailin doesn't speak for the mclame campaign! (ironically, second and third - and eighth - houses, yachts are eligible for those court ordered re-alignments - awesome)
um, biden didn't have to read off his freakin notecards (and thus, didn't look like the unprepared student)
what else what else...
ooh, she wants dick cheney-style power and wants to increase the unitary executive! sweet! what's left of our democracy will become an extremist theocracy.
aaaaaand lastly, krauthammer, the perpetual water carrier for the bush administration is now saying obama is more presidential - yikes!
and if you missed it, last night was one of the canadian PM debates.
truly amazing to see a democracy that does it right. i look forward to the day where we can have more than two parties present at the debates...
i thought bloc quebecois leader gilles duceppe looked kinda architect-y
oe, how is Palin like a Republican John Edwards? His marital indiscretion aside, Edwards was the policy wonk in this year's primaries. Maybe they both use colloquialisms and try assume a populist narrative, but I think this is an unfair equation: Edwards did use colloquialisms and used populist angst to make his point, but I don't think this was the extent of his argument or appeal at all. Rather, the breadth of his policy proposals and the degree to which they were a departure from the neoliberal policies of the past thirty years were what made me like him.
She has bangs! That is about all I picked up on and the botox was not working on the right side of her face....and who the hell put on the make up....her 17 year old daughter?
She reminds me of ernie the Chipmunk.
Woman Haters!
Ea You think she is a woman? An Alaskan but not a woman...She is a twisted individual....living in a fairy tale.
civil debate, please. why do we have to talk about makeup and botox? there's plenty here to discuss without resorting to that. i mean, i kept zeroing in on biden's bad haircut, but that didn't change my opinion of him.
both vp candidates were very civil and respectful. why can't we be?
Steven, Mine was a joke...you really don't think I was listening to all the mumble jumbo which was coming out of her mouth. She was so wired she couldn't keep on topic most of the evening.
I, for one, like Biden's hair. He's beautiful just the way he is.
oe, how is Palin like a Republican John Edwards?
Yea, sorry to rack on your boy. I offered the caveat about abstract thought to say I was making a stylistic judgment. Its just that goey, 'common-man' shtick is so transparently artificial I want to gag on a sweaty shoe. At least Edwards courtroom smooze masks a clever (if weaselly) politician, whereas Palin's masks perhaps the most insipid non compos since Dan Quayle.
I forgot Dan Quayle was also another Political with an Arizona Background. I recall walking by his house in Wickenberg twice and sometimes three times a day, when I was out walking the dog. That was after his Vice President years.
Racist!
not you snook.
not anyone actually.
just imitating.
I liked how arianna summed it up
"Biden was taking part in a vice presidential debate; Palin was taking part in a junior high debate."
Biden looked sad and tired, and thoughts of his family (bless their hearts) took the wind out of his sails. Something tells me he is having second thoughts about this Obama Idol...you could see it in his eyes, the country could see it.
i don't know. most of the time (except for an obvious exception) it looked like he was having a blast.
eat yourself, you must've been watching a different debate.
i think he did very well, and i think his debate performance will help bolster confidence in people who were on the fence for obama.
also, i think his choking up moment was a homerun for him, and didn't take the wind out of his sails at all.
His choking up moment was totally a homerun for him, agree, dread.
They both looked very worn out at the end. Seriously, compare how chipper and smiley they both were at the beginning with how they looked at the end. You could see it was wearing them down, and why not? It's hard freakin' work talking meaningfully for a long time; when I do desk crits all day I'm a blob of jelly crying for a bourbon by the end!
People are shifting away from Obama / Biden, regardless of what the Biased Polls say. Keep in mind that most Bloogers (like archinectors) and Pollsters are people who have the free time to well, take part in biased polls / discussion. Republicans are often busy working and their numbers will show in Novemeber. Just like '00 and '04.
Typical GOP horseshit... When the facts are inconvenient, just make up new ones.
I don't care what anyone says.
I know the future.
polls also target people will phones, land lines. i know plenty of 18-30 year olds that don't have a land line and thus aren't polled. so if polls are biased because repubs are too busy working, then you're in for a rude awakening when those young democrats go to the polls
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