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A small town with a internationally regarded firm? Does such a place exist?

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farwest1

Yes, but Haldenstein is just a suburb (Swiss-style) of the larger city Chur. So it's not really a tiny mountain village.

And Chur is home to a number of really good architects. So Zumthor isn't really working in isolation. Chur is still smaller, though, than the American small cities we're talking about, like Portland or Austin.

Aug 5, 08 11:40 am  · 
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farwest1

Also, Switzerland is a country roughly the size of Massachusetts, but with a greater population (and far greater wealth). So it has the kind of density and intensity that the US can't really have, because our cities are so spread out.

Aug 5, 08 11:57 am  · 
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SELLOUT

Switzerland is so small and well connected by train that any 'village' is essentially a suburb of a larger city.

Maybe the US equivalent would be smaller towns/cities that are well connected to major US cities. Beacon NY or Princeton NJ rather than Crawford TX.

Aug 5, 08 12:00 pm  · 
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holz.box

chur's pop. is less than 50k, even with all the "suburbs"

as for decent architects in chur, there are a few

jungling hagmann
pablo horvath
conradin clavuot
bearth + deplazes
corinna menn
patrick gartmann

Aug 5, 08 12:57 pm  · 
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farwest1

Tne Pacific Northwest has a lot of potential to become a mini-Switzerland design-wise. Seattle, Portland, and to a lesser extent Vancouver, all have some really interesting firms and a growing body of interesting work.

I was in Portland last week after having been gone for two years, and the number of nice buildings is pretty amazing for a small city.

Aug 5, 08 2:09 pm  · 
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holz.box

i'd say portland has better upcoming projects than seattle. vancouver has been pretty insane, yaletown always blows my mind...

Aug 5, 08 2:15 pm  · 
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SELLOUT

It seems like the NW could be Switzerland, the appreciation for nature, the relative wealth, and the overall engagement (and appreciation of modernism) of its citizens is more european than American.

But, I've found that the region lacks the educational institutions that produce a culture of intellectually grounded and professionally competent designers.

NW architect practice with an excessively tectonic regional "style" that overlooks program and professionally, have relinquished more control to consultants, construction managers and contractors than their peers in California, the Northeast or Chicago.

This weakness in the local professional culture though creates a great opportunity for better educated Architects from elsewhere to make an impact!

Aug 5, 08 2:22 pm  · 
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farwest1

The older generation of NW architects (Cutler, Olson Sundberg, Hacker, ZGF, etc.) are kind of giving way to a younger set who are doing more interesting and rigorous work (Allied Works, Tom Kundig, Holst, Skylab, etc.)

I'd say both sets have a critical regionalist approach to their work. But the younger set has shaken off the mantle of traditionalism and is experimenting a bit more, though still with an attention to regional materials and forms.

I think institutions like the UW, UofO, UBC, will modernize as the old guard retires. I do agree, sellout, that until these schools become much better, the architecture culture will feel a little staid.

Aug 5, 08 2:57 pm  · 
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holz.box

farwest, who would you say is experimenting in seattle?

as far as progressive firms... i wouldn't say kundig is really pushing anything...

the upcoming aia show lists the following as "new blood"

BLA
Build LLC
chadbourne + doss
Graham Baba
Heliotrope
Hutchison & Maul
HyBrid
Lead Pencil Studio
Pb Elemental
PIQUE
workshop A|D
Zero Plus

but i don't really see anyone pushing anything, they all seem to have their niche and go to town with it. there is a strong class of people who build nice things that are detailed well.

of these i think lead pencil is fairly interesting, but they seem more affiliated w/ the art world.

pique has some really interesting projects and is an interesting approach to running a firm (3 partners, 3 different locations)

graham baba, not aware of too many of their projects but what i've seen isn't stellar, just a mix of the usual seattle...

holst, skylab, works partnership and a few others in pdx seem lightyears ahead of what's going on in seattle.

Aug 5, 08 3:18 pm  · 
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farwest1

I don't know Seattle as well as Portland, even though I grew up there.) But having lived a lot of places—NY, Denver, SF, New Haven, DC—I have to say the homegrown architecture in Seattle is much better than a lot of other places.

I'm not talking about superstar foreign architects designing the next megamuseum. That's what NY has, maybe. I'm talking about the quality of your everyday buildings done by local architects.

I guess I was looking at this, in part:
http://www.inhabitat.com/2008/08/04/seattles-stunning-mount-baker-residence/#more-13113

Aug 5, 08 3:30 pm  · 
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farwest1

Of course, it's not Switzerland or Holland, but we gotta start somewhere.

Aug 5, 08 3:31 pm  · 
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holz.box

yeah, i find pb's work looks really cheap for the price.
(cable rails, inexpensive s.s. appliances, no window treatments, avg. casework details)

the exteriors are interesting, but a lot of their projects fail, contextually.

Aug 5, 08 3:35 pm  · 
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SELLOUT

holz - you're never going to get swiss quality in the US. America doesn't have a construction industry or a cost structure that would allow it. Swiss land and buildings cost so much more per square foot.

Cost-wise, Pb are making good quality housing that is affordable to the middle/professional class - somewhere in between high end and "affordable housing". Their multi-family units are actually affordable to architects - which is rare in Seattle.

Their business model is something architects should look more closely at - they're developing, designing and building their own work. Eliminating the middle-men that waste time and take profits and quality.



Aug 5, 08 4:20 pm  · 
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holz.box

i never said anything about swiss construction quality here in the u.s.

i just don't see how a million is affordable, even to the profi class.

Aug 5, 08 4:31 pm  · 
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SELLOUT

Sorry, holz - i was just relating back to the swiss discussion earlier in the thread...

Pb does some higher-end single family homes which get prominently featured in publication, but the bulk of their work is modern housing that cost half that or less.

I imagine Pb's design sensibility comes from wanting to build good modern design on the home depot price, that's required to realize affordable projects.

In any case - they are a bright spot in the NW...

Aug 5, 08 4:42 pm  · 
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farwest1

The real problem here is that in the US a modern house with cheap appliances and materials will cost as much or more than a "traditional" house with high-end appliances and materials.

Most US contractors know how to bid and build traditional. They don't know how to bid or build modern. Nor do most of their suppliers. Many of them don't even get it. (Our contractor on a very modern, minimal home just brought me his suggested front door sample: fiberglass, with colonial ornamentation on it. He doesn't get it.)

So contractors mark the price up, and everything costs more.

Add to that the fact that very few American clients understand modern, and it becomes a rarefied commodity—and hugely expensive.

Aug 5, 08 6:30 pm  · 
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SELLOUT

farwest - that doorframe sounds *lovely*!

To add....I also think contractors like traditional because the details are so forgiving. A little trim at every connection enables alot less care just like dropped ceilings in offices enable sloppy mechanical coordination...

I wonder if your contractor knew what he was doing - that frame would've been alot less work to install than a flush or narrow trim...or heaven forbid frameless!

It seems like vigilant CA or getting involved in Design Build is the only way toward clean modern construction...



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Aug 6, 08 1:21 pm  · 
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snook_dude

I always forget about these folk...but they are in a small town and internationally known for the work.

http://www.centerbrook.com/

Aug 6, 08 3:27 pm  · 
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flipside

Centerbrook is a great option.

I lived in Essex- town next to the town of Centerbrook from which the firm took its name- and it is a great town as long as you are not single. Social life is geared more towards couples/ families. Schools are excellent- one of the best systems in the state. Ivoryton- 5 minutes away- is a bit more affordable. Some lofts available, some condos, mostly single family homes in classic New England town pattern with rock fences dividing forest and pastures. If bottom falls out you have more options than Cville as New Haven and Hartford are close. Also, its on the water and close to the Atlantic if you want an ocean nearby. Boston and New York doable and possible on weekends by both rail and car. 4 seasons, snow moderated to an extent by proximity to the Atlantic but northeasters are a factor.

I commuted in to Hartford- 30 minutes easy commute-, New Haven just a little farther.

Centerbrook is a great firm, pays well with decent benefits. Has a good local reputation- only negative iso was there was fair ammounts of overtime- this may not be a negative from your view as it gives great training. They give you as much as you can handle, supported IDP, seem to have fun.

Firm operates as separate studios- each principal has a staff so try to pinpoint which partner you respect most. I had friends who loved working for Mark Simon, but heard great things about Bill Grover as well.

Good luck.

Feb 11, 09 10:47 am  · 
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anonnyc10003

New Haven is a good option -- several dozen top-notch firms, some with international work. Very walkable/bikeable/friendly. It's also one of the best small cities in the country in terms of cultural life, and NYC is just 60-70 miles away.

Feb 11, 09 11:15 am  · 
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ryukyova

well if you consider Minneapolis a small town than San Antonio has Lake/Flato and a few other ok firms but I wouldn't consider either of those cities as being small. Just medium. Unfortunatly you have to live in Texas in order to live in Austin or San Antonio.

Feb 11, 09 11:23 am  · 
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ryukyova

Also, while Phoenix is in no way a small town population wise it’s very low density and relative remoteness make it kind of feel like a small town in many ways. Lived there for 3 years and there are a lot of very good architects.

Feb 11, 09 11:27 am  · 
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flipside

R-

Agreed but the bottom has really dropped out in Arizona right now.
I do not know of a single firm hiring and many in Phoenix are laying off or on reduced hours.

Feb 11, 09 11:30 am  · 
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ryukyova

f-

agreed

Feb 11, 09 11:42 am  · 
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dml955i

Wilkes-Barre, PA (just south of Scranton)

home office of Bohlin Cywinski Jackson

Feb 11, 09 12:30 pm  · 
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ether

Can anyone offer suggestions for decent firms in these markets?

Fredrick, MD
Ashville, NC
Raleigh, NC
Chattanooga, TN
Nashville, TN
Charlottesville, VA
Richmond, VA

Jul 14, 09 11:24 pm  · 
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holz.box

charlottesville:

is tough. is anyone working there not a UVA alum? most of the firms i'm familiar are pretty much one or two man operations.

-wg clark
-wm mcdonough
-peter waldman
-maurice cox


richmond:
-smbw
-bob (beyond ordinary boundaries) last few projects have been intriguing
-watershed
-3 north
-bcwh
-walter parks

Jul 15, 09 1:27 am  · 
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ether

Thanks holz. I knew you'd have something to say. Please keep them coming.

Jul 15, 09 3:08 am  · 
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aquapura

Can we please define what a small town is? I'm seeing suggestions that are all over the map. I certinaly wouldn't call cities with 1+ million in metro population "small." Guess it's all relative to what you know. When I think small I'm thinking 100k tops. But for sake of finding a city mass with decent architecture choices can we say under 1 million?

Jul 15, 09 8:30 am  · 
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aspect

most arch firm in small town do local jobs.

Jul 15, 09 9:39 am  · 
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treekiller

small is anything not mega.

Jul 15, 09 10:05 am  · 
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salmela in duluth, mn.

Jul 15, 09 10:15 am  · 
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le bossman

i already said that, son.

does it have to be internationally regarded? can't it just be good? there are a lot of great firms out there that aren't even nationally regarded.

Jul 15, 09 10:21 am  · 
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aspect

for definition of small town, is where u need to take a local flight to big city to transfer for international flight...

if ur firm is internationally regarded, ur boss & associate need to travel alot, then why torture urself in a small town for being so inconvenient?

Jul 15, 09 11:21 am  · 
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outed

zumthor's been mentioned...

stateside, a few that have been overlooked:

duvall decker architects in jackson, ms. some very nice work. you have to want to love jackson, though.

carey mcwhorter, in seagrove, fl. beautiful modern work, former partner with debbie berke. laid back beach lifestyle available if there was any work. you can also toss in khoury-vogt from the office next door. they may be the best young, neo-traditional firm out there. great work so far.

in that vein, scott merrill, vero beach fl. neo traditional, but done so well he deserves far more attention than he's gotten.

michael ryan, loveladies, n.j. - again, beach town, but some great modern homes.

norman jaffe used to have an office out in east hampton - great, great work.

i agree with the observation above -we're too spread out to have the density (spatially and geographically) of small towns that produce higher quality work. also, let's face it, the press has a huge bias towards promoting modern work and has always overlooked promising firms who are doing less 'risky' or even outright traditional work but doing with as much invention as many of the stars (even if it's within a more defined set of constraints). also, in the states, firms in smaller towns tend to be very small firms. it's always a bit harder for them to cultivate media attention unless they're as relentless or savvy as someone like marlon. also, they're almost all tied to a university - i've tried to pick off a few who don't have those qualities and who, consequently, don't get the attention they probably should.

Jul 15, 09 11:13 pm  · 
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outed

oh, and i grew up part of each year in a town which had less than 100 full time residents. that's small...

Jul 15, 09 11:15 pm  · 
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ether

outed, i've been googling and reading for an hour already, anything else up your sleeve?

Jul 16, 09 10:31 pm  · 
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outed

whatcha mean? in terms of other firms?

Jul 17, 09 12:07 pm  · 
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ether

yes!

Jul 17, 09 1:13 pm  · 
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not well known, but doing some really nice work in a smallish city...

wannemacher jensen architects in st. petersburg, florida...

Jul 17, 09 5:09 pm  · 
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snook_dude

you could always tap into Mickey Muennig at Big Sur but it isn't a smallish city....you be a country boy.

http://mickeymuennig.com/

Jul 17, 09 5:52 pm  · 
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outed

ether,

there's chris risher jr., out of jackson, ms. as well - probably the smartest architect i've met. notoriously press shy, you won't find much out there.

coleman coker used to be in canton, ms. another small town. he's been in memphis a long, long time, though.

watson tate savory is in columbia, s.c. - not exactly a small town but it's nice work for the region.

i'm kind of a creature of the region, in the sense that most all of the smaller firms (who aren't quite getting the love) i'd know are people who live nearby. i'm not going to know too many firms in new mexico, or oklahoma, etc.

Jul 17, 09 7:20 pm  · 
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bye bye bayou

i don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but Antoine Predock and Bart Prince are both in Albuquerque, although i wouldn't consider it a small town.

i also wouldn't Austin a small town, but PageSoutherlandPage is located there. and don't listen to ryukyova. texas is a great state to live in and Austin and San Antonio are both fantastic cities.

Jul 17, 09 7:40 pm  · 
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Cherith Cutestory

^ yeah I would recommend working for neither Predock or Prince, unless your okay being paid minimum wage and working 100 hours a week to work for egotistical queens. And honestly, if your really looking for international recognition, Predock might qualify, but certainly not Bart Prince who's only built a handful of houses that have only gained notice on TV programs like "extreme and crazy homes". Once your outside of those 2 places, there really isn't anything else in the city, let alone the state really worth working for. Steer clear of NM.

Jul 17, 09 7:59 pm  · 
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ether

outed, i thought you were a creature of the region from your comments (and you did mention being in atlanta). i grew up in n. alabama, but have been gone for almost 10 years. i appreciated your comments on the other thread i started, so you can hopefully see where i'm going with this.

Jul 17, 09 9:19 pm  · 
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ryukyova

wpmeads,

I didn't mean to dis san antonio and austin...I think I like them both....i just meant to say texas as a whole is a bit crazy republican and churchy for me. But I've met many good people all over texas. my apologies.

but...to things on the direction of this post bother me.

#1 seems anything that is smaller than say chicago is a small town...funny.

#2 seems any firm that has apeared on one of your books or in arch record isn't any good and not working for....sad

Ether, ..."if your really looking for international recognition, Predock might qualify..." Really? Might? jeez what standards are we dealing with here?

Jul 17, 09 11:03 pm  · 
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vado retro

albuquerque is a small town surrounded by a big suburb.

Jul 18, 09 8:11 am  · 
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outed

ether - i do understand. there's only so many peeps that i know of (that haven't been mentioned by others or are in larger cities, etc.). a lot of the firms i mentioned i think are doing as good as work as someone like, say, huff gooden (to mention another regional firm) but who don't have nearly as much ink spilled about them. it's always a mystery why...

Jul 18, 09 8:41 am  · 
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farwest1

Are we talking about small towns? Or towns of any size with a really good quality of life? (i.e. great places to raise kids, good restaurants, walkable, cultural events.....)

Having lived in, like, seven American cities in the last 15 years, as well as a few European cities, I can say that there's one huge difference between the US and Europe. And this difference creates the sense of connectedness in European cities that we all seem to long for: walkability and density.

What we have in America, instead, is speed, distance, and space. But these things create fragmentation rather than cohesion. Trying to retrofit cities like Los Angeles, Atlanta, Houston, etc with walkable neighborhoods is a near-impossible task. You'd almost have to tear down and start over. Very few American cities are completely walkable and cohesive in the way that so many European cities are. Fairly obvious point, I know.

I think this condition alone actually tends to generate bad architectural work, because there's no existing context and no rules except cheapness. The big box is the only real innovation that America has given the world of architecture in recent years. In Switzerland, by contrast, there's a dense, ancient fabric that even new buildings have to fit into. These kinds of constraints inspire creativity.

I know that holz.box and others (including myself) lament the fact that even the "best" American firms produce work only on par with middle-of-the-road European firms.

I did, however, love working in Portland, Oregon, where the work was above average, where I could walk to work every day through old town, where I could have lunch at a variety of interesting restaurants, where after work I could go catch some music at a local venue, then walk home. I never used my car. What other American cities are like this?

Jul 20, 09 10:19 am  · 
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