kwame's gotten a bad rap in the mainstream press largely because of some poor personal decisions that he made early in his term as mayor, but anyone who has watched would realize that he has matured considerably in the meantime. projects like the westin book-cadillac (now under renovation) wouldn't have likely happened without kwame's personal commitment to making development happen within the city.
moreover, while everyone else is still focused on the downtown core of detroit (which is actually growth in recent years, even rising considerably in popularity amongst the young educated knowledge workers everyone craves), kwame is now aggressively tackling detroit's long neglected neighborhoods.
i used to be skeptical too of the footballer as a mayor...but if you look beyond prejudices & the hype, the man is doing an admirable job.
Ok, sorry Kwame- I actually don't know that much about him but it sounds like he is doing some good. I just don't want another machine mayor like Young to countinue ruining the city.
Since taking office in 2002 as the youngest mayor of any major U.S. city, Kwame M. Kilpatrick has led tremendous growth in the city of Detroit including the biggest housing and commercial construction boom in 50 years, the largest road and infrastructure improvement program in decades, and a $2-billion overhaul of Detroit’s riverfront. After decades of decline, Detroit is experiencing a revival thanks to Mayor Kilpatrick’s leadership that has been recognized by media including the New York Times, USA Today, the Los Angeles Times, and the Financial Times of London. Kilpatrick is now serving in his second term as Detroit’s 60th Mayor.
It's sad that a lot of city funds go to burning/tearing down buildings- many of which are considered historic- Kwame has brought down 80 historically classified buildings so far. I just hope they save Tiger Stadium.
i'm with you on the preservation angle, b.d.f. i've been working with the city to try to prevent needless demolition of historical structures. i think they're finally coming around and seeing their architectural heritage for the asset it is. the city is one problem, land speculators are the other. many of these historiical buildings are not owned by the city, but by private individuals or companies who are sitting on them waiting for the value to go up before they sell. in the meantime, they're going to hell, being vandalized, squatted, and whatever else, or even worse, being town down and turned into surface parking (another thing i love about the event city - all the suburbanites need somewhere to park their big honkin' suvs when they come in for the casinos or a ballgame). preservation is a big concern, and one that i hope more people around here will get involved with.
last i heard they are bringing down tiger stadium. they are building a meijer's there or something like that. they are going to save a section of it, adjacent to a ball diamond for kids. i actually think that they need to tear it down. i'm all for preservation, but its pretty difficult to adapt a stadium to any other program, and old tiger stadium is in questionable shape. all i could see it becoming is a baseball themed casino, probably called "The Stadium" or "The Boys of Summer Casino"
nice, bossman. or maybe the "bless you boys" casino decked out in sparky anderson and kirk gibson memorabilia. all the cocktail waitresses could serve drinks in chester lemon jerseys and stilletos. the soothing tones of ernie "he stood there like the house by the side of the road" harwell could announce another loser at the craps table. only serving ballpark franks and $7 bud lites. call the deal team, i think i've got a proposal.
It appears that preservation and adaptive reuse are becoming more popular within the city. People are begining to realize that it isn't just preserving a piece of history, can also reduce costs, cut time, be eco-friendly, and in a lot of cases create a truly unique space with a character that couldn't be recreated with new construction. Many buildings in Detroit are now preserving, at least, a buildings original facade and creating a new structure. In the case of the Westin Book-Cadillac, the entire hotel has been guttet on the interior down to framework and will be basically new construction, while the exterior is being preserved and restored. If you were to look at it today, aside from the construction equipment, it would appear as if they were simply replacing the windows. It's just a shame People's Outfitting had to come down to make way for parking.
that tigers themed casino is an excellent idea, maybe we should give the "little general" a call and get a deal rolling. chet lemon jerseys & stilletos = very nice...and all the valets need tom brookens style mustaches
Yea, a view from Google Earth- the old ball field is looking a little brown. Maybe it was because it was my first time to a game, but I would tingle when I first saw the green field within that old, steel structure before every game.
This is probably far fetched, but I wish they would have used the Comerica money to preserve the stadium into top shape with modern appeal, even opening a peice of it towards downtown for views and connection. Though immediatly downtown, I think Comerica is way too pop y and suburban- it doesn't have much character- but maybe that will develop in time. It nicely frames some amazing downtown buildings though.
well, in pretty much all of the games i'd been to in the old stadium, i was seated behind a column. i know that's charming, but it isn't any more charming than a roulette will spinning around with a gold baseball bat in the middle that spins around with red LEDs that spell out "Detroit" in old english-style font.
while i'm sure that sitting behind the columns was disappointing for all the working class children of detroit, the other side of that coin was that those some colums allowed the first few rows of the upper deck an exceptional view of the action. because the upper deck wasn't cantilevered (and consequently set back from the field of action), the upper box seats felt almost like floating above the game on the field below. it was an incredibly privileged vantage point in my opinion and well worth the sacrifice of those behind the columns.
i'd also rather see them renovate tiger stadium and demolish comerica park, but that seems pretty unlikely these days. just imagine what someone like herzog+de meuron (or even jafidler+le bossman) could do by peeling away the skin and resuing the bones of that old ballpark.
i also agree that it shouldn't waste space. and aside from use as a baseball field (and possibly a casino) then i feel like the options of adaptively re-using this building are very limited.
On the Detroit transit center: it's heart is in the right place, but it's not especially inspiring. Personally I think large scale demolition of mostly-abandoned neighborhoods and remaking them as inner organic urban farms is Detroit's only hope.
of detroit's children are working class...and, yes, i sat behind those columns a few times too...although i tended to be less annoyed with the columns and more annoyed by the fact that the upper deck might obstruct the path of any ball hit in the air. also, in the last few years of tiger stadium's existence (when the team was really atrocious) there was no better entertainment dollar than sitting in the bleachers out in centerfield. i think at one point the team was actually selling these tickets for as little as $2. on many nights it was the only part of the stadium actually full and the people watching out there was far more entertaining than anything on the field. oh i miss those days.
on another note, what about the pontiac silverdome? i think i miss those old days when smoking was still allowed and by the end of the third quarter you could barely see the roof through the smoky haze filling the place...and damn it could get loud in there too
i'm curious to hear archinector's thoughts on the principle routes or axes detroit's transit system should take.
i agree with a. alfred taubman that the ann arbor-dtw-detroit line is a huge waste of money. i think it was concocted by a bunch of um-associated ann arborites who are a little out-of-touch with the rest of southeast michigan and have their own interests too much at stake, though i will admit that if the aerotroplis idea gains traction it could become a more viable proposal.
if i were to begin phasing a new detroit transit system i would start with the woodward corridor. the politics involved with detroit/oakland county cannot be ignored, and i believe should be addressed first. if a partnership can be attained i believe it would be a huge step towards a more comprehensive transit system. second i would look at jefferson avenue from downtown to grosse pointe. jefferson has made more progress than any of detroit's five spokes. i think transit could help reinforce that and contribute to a budding renaissance along this corridor.
i imagine that michigan avenue would be the principle axis of the detroit-dtw-ann arbor line. my concern with that, and i think why taubman so easily dismissed it, was that making the essential connection to dtw is quite far out of the way and could get into some messy land ownership issues. there's also the problem of how to connect to ann arbor after michigan ave dies out around ypsi. it's an interesting idea; my concern is that the infrastructural issues are too major (and expensive).
i'm interested why you like a gratiot line. i do like how it connects to macomb county (which is still growing faster than any se michigan county), but that stretch of the east side of detroit is so burned out, i wonder if it's not a lost cause.
i'd start with the fort street corridor on the city's west side...but i'm probably the only one of that opinion.
actually, wasn't there some recent consensus amongst the various communities along woodward to attempt a link (most likely a light rail) along woodward up through royal oak, ferndale, etc. and into pontiac? i also believe that a dedicated ann arbor-detroit service along the amtrak corridor is in the works for as early as this fall.
fort street wouldnt be a bad idea..... takes you through downriver...haha....my old hood..... detroit needs like to hit the lotto or something........ get some decent funding going..........
not sure whats really left though... due to the job market and the layoffs/buyouts, shyt makes you wonder where michigan will really be in the next few years.....
part of michigan's masterplan for transit in the next 30 years includes upgrading regional transit. this mostly means improving freeways, but they are also looking into rail service.
the entire great lakes area is also looking into implementing a high-speed passenger rail infrastructure with chicago as its hub. personally at this point i think the idea seems rather ludicrous, however the projected development of the area in the next few decades might dictate the need for such infrastruction. aa is probably likely to be considered amongst one of these more "regional" transit systems, which would definitely include detroit anyway.
having worked in detroit i don't know if they need any light rail infrastructure in the city. the freeway system is pretty redundant. the traffic is not particulaly bad, and if you think it is, try driving in boston (or any of the other 10 biggest cities in this country for that matter). i was just in phoenix last weekend and can easily say the traffic there is way worse. if i was to chose a corridor, i'd say woodward, and probably something paralleling the river, as a lot of the new development in the city is to the north along the waterfront.
It's been awhile since I lived in Detroit, but having driven the Woodward corridor often going out to 16 mile (Cranbrook) I'd think transit there would not serve as many middle class people who would be likely to use it as would a line out Gratiot. A line to Pontiac would be cool, but there's a huge stretch in there - like 10 mile to 22 mile or so - that's a bunch of rich people who would be damned before giving up their cars, no? And I don't think they work downtown for the most part anyway. Who does go downtown, and for what purpose?
A regional Midwest rail system IMO would be enormously popular - a rail link between Indy and Chicago would be used constantly, I'd take clients on it to go to the Merchandise Mart, would use it for weekend trips etc. Unless perhaps I have an east coast mindset of taking the train Phily-NYC-DC for trips, maybe that mindset wouldn't translate to the midwest as easily as I think it would. The Amtrak link between Indy and Chicago is ridiculous, it takes over five hours because it stops at every podunk town between!
I live near 11 mile, and I, for one, would gladly give up my car for a train ride into work. A lot of people who live in the suburbs work in the city. People rive as far as 30 miles or beyond to get into the city. Like I said before, my 17 or 18 mile commute takes me nearly an hour during rish hour. I think that a lot of people in the 'burbs would gladly part with their commute each morning and evening. In my opinion, Woodward would be the ideal rout for a light rail system. The road, at least a majority of it, is already divided by a wide median. Woodward is the main north-south axis in the metro area. Once this has been established, lines could branch out along other axial roads, like Gratiot or Grand River, with a central interchange within the central business district.
supposedly amtrak has already begun upgrading tracks between detroit & chicago for a high-speed link between the two cities, but i don't think they're moving too fast with this. they've completed something like a 20 mile stretch of tracks and i wouldn't be surprised if it took 20-30 years for this to actually be completed. even so, the idea of a city center-to-city center link between detroit & chicago with about a 2.5 hour travel time is very alluring. compared to security hassles & suburban location of the airports, i think that the train travel could blow the doors off of commercial air travel if done correctly.
Sorry if I sounded snarky about "rich people", Chili, I didn't mean to - I know around Royal Oak etc, there are lots of people who would be willing to use transit. But my recollection of Gratiot is that there is a much higher concentration of middle/working class people along it.
But also: is there a serious suburbs--->downtown commute? Or is it a more multi-directional commute, which is what I recall?
for those interested, the metrotimes has published a number of articles regarding transportation in detroit in recent years that they have collectively grouped under the heading "roads not working"
No worries, LB, I don't mind anyone calling me "rich." It's completely off base, but I still don't mind. Royal Oak and Ferndale, as well as Huntington Woods and Berkley are definately places I think mass-transit would appeal to. And while there are a good number of commuters headed out of the city in the morning and back at night, the majority travel the other way. I'm not sure why, but I picture a light rail system appealing to the upper crust of the middle class as well. For nostalgea if not for anything else. For the same reason I take the people mover anywhere, when everyone knows it's a helluva lot faster to walk.
i don't know if anyone has driven gratiot recently (or anytime in the last twenty years) from downtown to 8-mile, but it's in rough shape. i'm all in favor of transit supplementing efforts to revitalize parts of the city, but at this point, no one is investing in the gratiot corridor, and i have serious doubts about transit leading the charge; it's too great an investment if it fails.
the woodward corridor i see in all seriousness as being the party route. it'll bring suburbanites to downtown and midtown for the theaters, museums, casinos, sports arenas, etc. i'm not sure it will be a true commuter route at least not in the beginning. that may all change if rock financial moves downtown and sparks the type of downtown job growth that city backers are hoping for.
I don't see the problem with building a line from downtown Detroit>Dearborn>Metro>Ypsi>Ann Arbor. People in those places seem the mostly likely to ride. Woodward seems like a logical axis that cut to Royal Oak. I think the main intent of a train in Detroit should be to efficiently bring upper and middle class suburban masses into the city, not branch aimlessly within city limits.
Flint's own Rosa Parks Bus terminal downtown is pretty freaking awesome, considering the glut of sh!t Ted Hu Architects is producing for the redevelopment going on these days. The public art component has become an absolute joke though.
how goes it bossman. worked w/ you at pb a couple years ago, came back to finish it off.
had lots of problems, but the building should be done in a few months. The tensile structure won't be complete until next summer.
detroit is looking pretty good these days...i was at the new book cadillac a few weeks ago and enjoyed some nice cocktails. i was also pleased to see that oslo had reopened. and, of course, the hard rock cafe was as busy as ever!
New Transit Center for Downtown Detroit
kwame's gotten a bad rap in the mainstream press largely because of some poor personal decisions that he made early in his term as mayor, but anyone who has watched would realize that he has matured considerably in the meantime. projects like the westin book-cadillac (now under renovation) wouldn't have likely happened without kwame's personal commitment to making development happen within the city.
moreover, while everyone else is still focused on the downtown core of detroit (which is actually growth in recent years, even rising considerably in popularity amongst the young educated knowledge workers everyone craves), kwame is now aggressively tackling detroit's long neglected neighborhoods.
i used to be skeptical too of the footballer as a mayor...but if you look beyond prejudices & the hype, the man is doing an admirable job.
Ok, sorry Kwame- I actually don't know that much about him but it sounds like he is doing some good. I just don't want another machine mayor like Young to countinue ruining the city.
Kwame M. Kilpatrick
Mayor, City of Detroit
Since taking office in 2002 as the youngest mayor of any major U.S. city, Kwame M. Kilpatrick has led tremendous growth in the city of Detroit including the biggest housing and commercial construction boom in 50 years, the largest road and infrastructure improvement program in decades, and a $2-billion overhaul of Detroit’s riverfront. After decades of decline, Detroit is experiencing a revival thanks to Mayor Kilpatrick’s leadership that has been recognized by media including the New York Times, USA Today, the Los Angeles Times, and the Financial Times of London. Kilpatrick is now serving in his second term as Detroit’s 60th Mayor.
Some recent projects in >
Downtown Detroit | $1.3 Billion in new or rehabbed construction.
http://www.theworldiscoming.com/seethechange.html
the michigan economy still sucks.....
and the u.d.m. 5 year program isnt bad... just watch out for egotistical proffs that create slave studios....
gator
yea
It's sad that a lot of city funds go to burning/tearing down buildings- many of which are considered historic- Kwame has brought down 80 historically classified buildings so far. I just hope they save Tiger Stadium.
i'm with you on the preservation angle, b.d.f. i've been working with the city to try to prevent needless demolition of historical structures. i think they're finally coming around and seeing their architectural heritage for the asset it is. the city is one problem, land speculators are the other. many of these historiical buildings are not owned by the city, but by private individuals or companies who are sitting on them waiting for the value to go up before they sell. in the meantime, they're going to hell, being vandalized, squatted, and whatever else, or even worse, being town down and turned into surface parking (another thing i love about the event city - all the suburbanites need somewhere to park their big honkin' suvs when they come in for the casinos or a ballgame). preservation is a big concern, and one that i hope more people around here will get involved with.
last i heard they are bringing down tiger stadium. they are building a meijer's there or something like that. they are going to save a section of it, adjacent to a ball diamond for kids. i actually think that they need to tear it down. i'm all for preservation, but its pretty difficult to adapt a stadium to any other program, and old tiger stadium is in questionable shape. all i could see it becoming is a baseball themed casino, probably called "The Stadium" or "The Boys of Summer Casino"
nice, bossman. or maybe the "bless you boys" casino decked out in sparky anderson and kirk gibson memorabilia. all the cocktail waitresses could serve drinks in chester lemon jerseys and stilletos. the soothing tones of ernie "he stood there like the house by the side of the road" harwell could announce another loser at the craps table. only serving ballpark franks and $7 bud lites. call the deal team, i think i've got a proposal.
It appears that preservation and adaptive reuse are becoming more popular within the city. People are begining to realize that it isn't just preserving a piece of history, can also reduce costs, cut time, be eco-friendly, and in a lot of cases create a truly unique space with a character that couldn't be recreated with new construction. Many buildings in Detroit are now preserving, at least, a buildings original facade and creating a new structure. In the case of the Westin Book-Cadillac, the entire hotel has been guttet on the interior down to framework and will be basically new construction, while the exterior is being preserved and restored. If you were to look at it today, aside from the construction equipment, it would appear as if they were simply replacing the windows. It's just a shame People's Outfitting had to come down to make way for parking.
that tigers themed casino is an excellent idea, maybe we should give the "little general" a call and get a deal rolling. chet lemon jerseys & stilletos = very nice...and all the valets need tom brookens style mustaches
Speaking of Toms, maybe we can get Tom Celic to make an appearance at the opeining.
Yea, a view from Google Earth- the old ball field is looking a little brown. Maybe it was because it was my first time to a game, but I would tingle when I first saw the green field within that old, steel structure before every game.
This is probably far fetched, but I wish they would have used the Comerica money to preserve the stadium into top shape with modern appeal, even opening a peice of it towards downtown for views and connection. Though immediatly downtown, I think Comerica is way too pop y and suburban- it doesn't have much character- but maybe that will develop in time. It nicely frames some amazing downtown buildings though.
oh, puddles/jfidler, you and i are n*sync. let's get a tri-coastal charrette going now and propose it to mapa
well, in pretty much all of the games i'd been to in the old stadium, i was seated behind a column. i know that's charming, but it isn't any more charming than a roulette will spinning around with a gold baseball bat in the middle that spins around with red LEDs that spell out "Detroit" in old english-style font.
while i'm sure that sitting behind the columns was disappointing for all the working class children of detroit, the other side of that coin was that those some colums allowed the first few rows of the upper deck an exceptional view of the action. because the upper deck wasn't cantilevered (and consequently set back from the field of action), the upper box seats felt almost like floating above the game on the field below. it was an incredibly privileged vantage point in my opinion and well worth the sacrifice of those behind the columns.
i'd also rather see them renovate tiger stadium and demolish comerica park, but that seems pretty unlikely these days. just imagine what someone like herzog+de meuron (or even jafidler+le bossman) could do by peeling away the skin and resuing the bones of that old ballpark.
i also agree that it shouldn't waste space. and aside from use as a baseball field (and possibly a casino) then i feel like the options of adaptively re-using this building are very limited.
anybody got any ideas for the grande ballroom?
"sitting behind the columns was disappointing for all the working class children of detroit"
ain't that the truth, brudda.
puddles, i've re-read the first paragraph of your last post like six times, and everytime it gets funnier.
This is cool, and I'm not sure where to put it, so this thread about transit seems appropriate: subway systems of the world presented at the same scale. Found it at Design Observer.
I'm such a sucker for these kinds of diagrams.
On the Detroit transit center: it's heart is in the right place, but it's not especially inspiring. Personally I think large scale demolition of mostly-abandoned neighborhoods and remaking them as inner organic urban farms is Detroit's only hope.
of detroit's children are working class...and, yes, i sat behind those columns a few times too...although i tended to be less annoyed with the columns and more annoyed by the fact that the upper deck might obstruct the path of any ball hit in the air. also, in the last few years of tiger stadium's existence (when the team was really atrocious) there was no better entertainment dollar than sitting in the bleachers out in centerfield. i think at one point the team was actually selling these tickets for as little as $2. on many nights it was the only part of the stadium actually full and the people watching out there was far more entertaining than anything on the field. oh i miss those days.
on another note, what about the pontiac silverdome? i think i miss those old days when smoking was still allowed and by the end of the third quarter you could barely see the roof through the smoky haze filling the place...and damn it could get loud in there too
anybody going to wimbledon this year?
lb - that subway maps cmparo is cool -- but having been there, I can't believe Tokyo's is really that small...
Good job LA with your hugely accesible subway/rail system. Even Stokholm is beating them.
well lb they need to do one of the detroit people mover's 1mi loop superimposed in there, just for effect
well puddles, we all know space is at a premium in detroilet
what about the silverdome? i assume it is still used for mhsaa championships? what has pontiac done to make up for this lost resource?
i'm curious to hear archinector's thoughts on the principle routes or axes detroit's transit system should take.
i agree with a. alfred taubman that the ann arbor-dtw-detroit line is a huge waste of money. i think it was concocted by a bunch of um-associated ann arborites who are a little out-of-touch with the rest of southeast michigan and have their own interests too much at stake, though i will admit that if the aerotroplis idea gains traction it could become a more viable proposal.
if i were to begin phasing a new detroit transit system i would start with the woodward corridor. the politics involved with detroit/oakland county cannot be ignored, and i believe should be addressed first. if a partnership can be attained i believe it would be a huge step towards a more comprehensive transit system. second i would look at jefferson avenue from downtown to grosse pointe. jefferson has made more progress than any of detroit's five spokes. i think transit could help reinforce that and contribute to a budding renaissance along this corridor.
other's thoughts?
a transit staight down woodward could help.... but i would think gratiot and mich ave would be better though.....
b
i imagine that michigan avenue would be the principle axis of the detroit-dtw-ann arbor line. my concern with that, and i think why taubman so easily dismissed it, was that making the essential connection to dtw is quite far out of the way and could get into some messy land ownership issues. there's also the problem of how to connect to ann arbor after michigan ave dies out around ypsi. it's an interesting idea; my concern is that the infrastructural issues are too major (and expensive).
i'm interested why you like a gratiot line. i do like how it connects to macomb county (which is still growing faster than any se michigan county), but that stretch of the east side of detroit is so burned out, i wonder if it's not a lost cause.
thats the point.... you need transit in areas that need the help...i.e. east side.... it'll help people find work and get back on there feet....
why take a transit to ann arbor...they are fine out there..... need to work with wayne county first then branch off from there......
and the train does stop in A2...amtrak on woodward
b
i'd start with the fort street corridor on the city's west side...but i'm probably the only one of that opinion.
actually, wasn't there some recent consensus amongst the various communities along woodward to attempt a link (most likely a light rail) along woodward up through royal oak, ferndale, etc. and into pontiac? i also believe that a dedicated ann arbor-detroit service along the amtrak corridor is in the works for as early as this fall.
fort street wouldnt be a bad idea..... takes you through downriver...haha....my old hood..... detroit needs like to hit the lotto or something........ get some decent funding going..........
not sure whats really left though... due to the job market and the layoffs/buyouts, shyt makes you wonder where michigan will really be in the next few years.....
b
part of michigan's masterplan for transit in the next 30 years includes upgrading regional transit. this mostly means improving freeways, but they are also looking into rail service.
the entire great lakes area is also looking into implementing a high-speed passenger rail infrastructure with chicago as its hub. personally at this point i think the idea seems rather ludicrous, however the projected development of the area in the next few decades might dictate the need for such infrastruction. aa is probably likely to be considered amongst one of these more "regional" transit systems, which would definitely include detroit anyway.
having worked in detroit i don't know if they need any light rail infrastructure in the city. the freeway system is pretty redundant. the traffic is not particulaly bad, and if you think it is, try driving in boston (or any of the other 10 biggest cities in this country for that matter). i was just in phoenix last weekend and can easily say the traffic there is way worse. if i was to chose a corridor, i'd say woodward, and probably something paralleling the river, as a lot of the new development in the city is to the north along the waterfront.
oh yeah, see this document:
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/MDOT_SLRP_032607_lowres_191249_7.pdf
It's been awhile since I lived in Detroit, but having driven the Woodward corridor often going out to 16 mile (Cranbrook) I'd think transit there would not serve as many middle class people who would be likely to use it as would a line out Gratiot. A line to Pontiac would be cool, but there's a huge stretch in there - like 10 mile to 22 mile or so - that's a bunch of rich people who would be damned before giving up their cars, no? And I don't think they work downtown for the most part anyway. Who does go downtown, and for what purpose?
A regional Midwest rail system IMO would be enormously popular - a rail link between Indy and Chicago would be used constantly, I'd take clients on it to go to the Merchandise Mart, would use it for weekend trips etc. Unless perhaps I have an east coast mindset of taking the train Phily-NYC-DC for trips, maybe that mindset wouldn't translate to the midwest as easily as I think it would. The Amtrak link between Indy and Chicago is ridiculous, it takes over five hours because it stops at every podunk town between!
I live near 11 mile, and I, for one, would gladly give up my car for a train ride into work. A lot of people who live in the suburbs work in the city. People rive as far as 30 miles or beyond to get into the city. Like I said before, my 17 or 18 mile commute takes me nearly an hour during rish hour. I think that a lot of people in the 'burbs would gladly part with their commute each morning and evening. In my opinion, Woodward would be the ideal rout for a light rail system. The road, at least a majority of it, is already divided by a wide median. Woodward is the main north-south axis in the metro area. Once this has been established, lines could branch out along other axial roads, like Gratiot or Grand River, with a central interchange within the central business district.
supposedly amtrak has already begun upgrading tracks between detroit & chicago for a high-speed link between the two cities, but i don't think they're moving too fast with this. they've completed something like a 20 mile stretch of tracks and i wouldn't be surprised if it took 20-30 years for this to actually be completed. even so, the idea of a city center-to-city center link between detroit & chicago with about a 2.5 hour travel time is very alluring. compared to security hassles & suburban location of the airports, i think that the train travel could blow the doors off of commercial air travel if done correctly.
Sorry if I sounded snarky about "rich people", Chili, I didn't mean to - I know around Royal Oak etc, there are lots of people who would be willing to use transit. But my recollection of Gratiot is that there is a much higher concentration of middle/working class people along it.
But also: is there a serious suburbs--->downtown commute? Or is it a more multi-directional commute, which is what I recall?
for those interested, the metrotimes has published a number of articles regarding transportation in detroit in recent years that they have collectively grouped under the heading "roads not working"
No worries, LB, I don't mind anyone calling me "rich." It's completely off base, but I still don't mind. Royal Oak and Ferndale, as well as Huntington Woods and Berkley are definately places I think mass-transit would appeal to. And while there are a good number of commuters headed out of the city in the morning and back at night, the majority travel the other way. I'm not sure why, but I picture a light rail system appealing to the upper crust of the middle class as well. For nostalgea if not for anything else. For the same reason I take the people mover anywhere, when everyone knows it's a helluva lot faster to walk.
i don't know if anyone has driven gratiot recently (or anytime in the last twenty years) from downtown to 8-mile, but it's in rough shape. i'm all in favor of transit supplementing efforts to revitalize parts of the city, but at this point, no one is investing in the gratiot corridor, and i have serious doubts about transit leading the charge; it's too great an investment if it fails.
the woodward corridor i see in all seriousness as being the party route. it'll bring suburbanites to downtown and midtown for the theaters, museums, casinos, sports arenas, etc. i'm not sure it will be a true commuter route at least not in the beginning. that may all change if rock financial moves downtown and sparks the type of downtown job growth that city backers are hoping for.
I don't see the problem with building a line from downtown Detroit>Dearborn>Metro>Ypsi>Ann Arbor. People in those places seem the mostly likely to ride. Woodward seems like a logical axis that cut to Royal Oak. I think the main intent of a train in Detroit should be to efficiently bring upper and middle class suburban masses into the city, not branch aimlessly within city limits.
guess nobody's going to wimbledon, huh?
Flint's own Rosa Parks Bus terminal downtown is pretty freaking awesome, considering the glut of sh!t Ted Hu Architects is producing for the redevelopment going on these days. The public art component has become an absolute joke though.
i haven't heard of it. is it new? do you have a link?
is a link to some great progress images of the construction project. but beware, the banter on the threads is annoying.
it is happening
shit
how goes it bossman. worked w/ you at pb a couple years ago, came back to finish it off.
had lots of problems, but the building should be done in a few months. The tensile structure won't be complete until next summer.
detroit is looking pretty good these days...i was at the new book cadillac a few weeks ago and enjoyed some nice cocktails. i was also pleased to see that oslo had reopened. and, of course, the hard rock cafe was as busy as ever!
on the other, with the big three about to all go bankrupt in the next 18 months the good times probably won't last.
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