: yes ... $600k ... I know because I saw his financial records ... I earned my living at that stage of my life advising design firm owners on Ownership Transition ... I helped this guy put together an OT program for his firm and part of that effort included compiling a package of information for the people buying into the firm ... the numbers are real and carry his CPA's stamp of approval.
I agree that there are a lot of choices involved that make it harder or easier to live on an architect's salary... However, most architecture jobs are in large cities, and salaries are certainly higher in big city firms (though not enough to make up for the increased cost of living). And most architects I know detest the exurbs, where school is free and housing cheaper. I imagine that many people on this board have a vision of being an architect in a large city, and I'm saying that $100k of salary (about the maximum most of us will ever make in today's dollars) will still result in a paycheck-to-paycheck lifestyle. And most of us will be in dual-income situations with our spouses for the rest of our lives to have the lifestyle our parents had on one salary.
My husband was introduced to this from the ladies he works with, we've been doing it the last month or so. It's a little cheesy, but it works. The site compounds local store's sales with the ads in the Sunday paper for you and prints you a list. It takes a little work and planning, but I consistantly save 40-60% on my groceries. Often I get stuff for free or $3 items for 60 cents or something. I have a tiny pantry, but I find room to stock up anyways.
talking of groceries, we do all our shopping from ethnic stores here in LA (like Armenian grocery stores, Thai grocery stores etc), and seriously they are so much cheaper than any fucking supermarket in town. Oh yes and much cheaper than Trader Joes etc. The vegetables are generally not Genetically modified so they taste much better too....And there are some real cheap mexican grocery stores too in the LA area - very accessible and very convenient.
An interior designer Zeyneps (just saw it on Discovery channel) earns about 50 million dollars a year. She is just one of the many interior designers that have wealthy clients and make well over 6 figures.
So as you can see, anyone or any profession can make money except for architects. What the fuck is wrong with us?
Great post, OldFogey..........well, not great if you see how low we have sunk. We used to be called the prostitutes of the professional society, but that would be very offending towards call girls. For one, they make more money that we and they have a certain standard. They will not do everything for a dime as we would. So a better analogy would be a crack head. There is no profession that is so screwed up as architecture.
I'm down with old fogey on what he's said. As a rather mature Architect as well I really do like the Carrot approach that often gets put out their when they want you to do work for cheap but having fallen for it a few times many years back it was frustrating. I do really spend more time trying to understand th eclients motives for doing what they want to acheive. I 've often talked my self out of jobs by being honest and said straight up "I'm not the cheapest guy to do this for you". and if you wnat that then phone this person. Once in a while they take the bait and i've avoided another painful client. Other times they get the fact that I am in tune with their business mentality and approach jobs with a very strategic / financially sound process. understanding or explaining how what we do can make their business be more successful, good design can be more cost effective, etc. this resonates with clients more often than not. I have often been faced with clients wanting the cheapest engineering proposal for a house and then have the builder complain about the lack of details, lack of service on site and over designed beams. I went and proved out why I spent three times the amount for my own Struc. Eng on my own house, and had all the details complete, complete service when needed and the structure was more efficient ( and cost less to build) those extra fees went into ultimately making for a way better building and much more effective building process people understand that. Some clients don't and those ones I can do with out. We can be our own worst enemies, we talk about cool design stuff but don't bridge the issues of design as it relates to the client and how it affects the clients goals and objectives. If you can do that you will have a much more effective chance of creating value for your work, if you can articulate your value to the client then you will command the fees you think your worth.
: I too am an old fogey, but I don't think I'm quite so cynical as you seem to be. But, I do agree with you about the vital importance of people skills ... all too often design professionals of all ages will talk down to, or dismiss, clients ... and then be surprised that the client gets annoyed and complains of poor service.
Most clients have fairly simple needs ... give me a good building that responds well to my wishes, functions properly, keeps the weather out, is economical to operate and maintain, comes in under my budget and makes my schedule. For most clients, that is "architecture" ... we know that "Architecture" is much more than that.
However, until our profession starts to deliver consistently on the client's expectations regarding "little a" architecture, we will have great difficulty consistently interesting our clients in the benefits of "big A" architecture.
High salaries?
: yes ... $600k ... I know because I saw his financial records ... I earned my living at that stage of my life advising design firm owners on Ownership Transition ... I helped this guy put together an OT program for his firm and part of that effort included compiling a package of information for the people buying into the firm ... the numbers are real and carry his CPA's stamp of approval.
I agree that there are a lot of choices involved that make it harder or easier to live on an architect's salary... However, most architecture jobs are in large cities, and salaries are certainly higher in big city firms (though not enough to make up for the increased cost of living). And most architects I know detest the exurbs, where school is free and housing cheaper. I imagine that many people on this board have a vision of being an architect in a large city, and I'm saying that $100k of salary (about the maximum most of us will ever make in today's dollars) will still result in a paycheck-to-paycheck lifestyle. And most of us will be in dual-income situations with our spouses for the rest of our lives to have the lifestyle our parents had on one salary.
My husband was introduced to this from the ladies he works with, we've been doing it the last month or so. It's a little cheesy, but it works. The site compounds local store's sales with the ads in the Sunday paper for you and prints you a list. It takes a little work and planning, but I consistantly save 40-60% on my groceries. Often I get stuff for free or $3 items for 60 cents or something. I have a tiny pantry, but I find room to stock up anyways.
wanna get pissed about salaries... watch this...
talking of groceries, we do all our shopping from ethnic stores here in LA (like Armenian grocery stores, Thai grocery stores etc), and seriously they are so much cheaper than any fucking supermarket in town. Oh yes and much cheaper than Trader Joes etc. The vegetables are generally not Genetically modified so they taste much better too....And there are some real cheap mexican grocery stores too in the LA area - very accessible and very convenient.
goddammit what happened to my image...anyway watch the smartest guys in the room. you'll be pissed allright.
It's all luck. Just plain, dumb luck. You can plan, work your ass off, have tons of developed talent, but without luck, ain't nothin' gonna happin!
its not really the architects salary...its just that its one salary. i need another income in my household...
An interior designer Zeyneps (just saw it on Discovery channel) earns about 50 million dollars a year. She is just one of the many interior designers that have wealthy clients and make well over 6 figures.
So as you can see, anyone or any profession can make money except for architects. What the fuck is wrong with us?
Make more than planners anyway....
: feel better now ?
Great post, OldFogey..........well, not great if you see how low we have sunk. We used to be called the prostitutes of the professional society, but that would be very offending towards call girls. For one, they make more money that we and they have a certain standard. They will not do everything for a dime as we would. So a better analogy would be a crack head. There is no profession that is so screwed up as architecture.
Two cliches come to mind:
"It's as much who you know, as what you know."
"People dont care what you know, until they know you care."
That being said...relationships/networking matters a great deal
I'm down with old fogey on what he's said. As a rather mature Architect as well I really do like the Carrot approach that often gets put out their when they want you to do work for cheap but having fallen for it a few times many years back it was frustrating. I do really spend more time trying to understand th eclients motives for doing what they want to acheive. I 've often talked my self out of jobs by being honest and said straight up "I'm not the cheapest guy to do this for you". and if you wnat that then phone this person. Once in a while they take the bait and i've avoided another painful client. Other times they get the fact that I am in tune with their business mentality and approach jobs with a very strategic / financially sound process. understanding or explaining how what we do can make their business be more successful, good design can be more cost effective, etc. this resonates with clients more often than not. I have often been faced with clients wanting the cheapest engineering proposal for a house and then have the builder complain about the lack of details, lack of service on site and over designed beams. I went and proved out why I spent three times the amount for my own Struc. Eng on my own house, and had all the details complete, complete service when needed and the structure was more efficient ( and cost less to build) those extra fees went into ultimately making for a way better building and much more effective building process people understand that. Some clients don't and those ones I can do with out. We can be our own worst enemies, we talk about cool design stuff but don't bridge the issues of design as it relates to the client and how it affects the clients goals and objectives. If you can do that you will have a much more effective chance of creating value for your work, if you can articulate your value to the client then you will command the fees you think your worth.
: I too am an old fogey, but I don't think I'm quite so cynical as you seem to be. But, I do agree with you about the vital importance of people skills ... all too often design professionals of all ages will talk down to, or dismiss, clients ... and then be surprised that the client gets annoyed and complains of poor service.
Most clients have fairly simple needs ... give me a good building that responds well to my wishes, functions properly, keeps the weather out, is economical to operate and maintain, comes in under my budget and makes my schedule. For most clients, that is "architecture" ... we know that "Architecture" is much more than that.
However, until our profession starts to deliver consistently on the client's expectations regarding "little a" architecture, we will have great difficulty consistently interesting our clients in the benefits of "big A" architecture.
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