I don't want to derail this thread, but there is something I need to get off my chest, and more to the benefit of Non Americans who don't really know American Culture.

One other aspect that this thread kind of did not touch on, is the question of how people view Americans of color. I was reminded of this just today, as a walked out from a job interview in downtown Chicago, some people look at me and assume that I'm not able to speak English, since I have let my hair grow out long enough that I could comb it, I have to put on some hair gel and it makes me look very different, My mindset was that I just could not afford to pay the barber every couple of weeks, and plus I have very nice hair that grows out very fast so why not let it grow? its not like I'm balding, people are really reacting differently towards me sometimes saying "your hair looks nice" to blatantly racist comments from mostly Caucasian people, Like today a group of 4 twenty somethings blatantly said, as I walked out of the building, something about me looking like a "Mexican". So how does that make this decorated military veteran feel? you could imagine. Not happy. People of Mexican descent are mixed with Spanish blood, and we come in different shades from very White to tan, to very dark tan, I guess im surprised some Americans don't realize that Spain invaded Mexico 500 years ago and nature took its course. Even within a family we could be different in skin color, for example my family. I don't know what that guy was thinking, but you could get your ass kicked in Chicago for pissing someone off. Don't know if it was right but, I turned around and stopped looking right at this racist pig, daring him to repeat what he just said, the guy put his head down and kept on walking, I wish he would have said something to me It has been a while since I was in fight. I'm pretty sure I could have hurt him pretty bad. who knows maybe he was just jealous that I have nice hair and I over reacted. Either way he came dangerously close to getting beat down.

I'm Catalan and from Catalonia, and I don't know where I'm -we are- at in Archinect's "top-X visitor breakdown by country" but I refuse the word -and the notion, and the concept and everything else- "Spain" for me.
How many of that 1,27% in Archinect's ranking is not Spanish but Catalan, I don't know but I guess quite a lot. If it's Google Analytics who provide the data, then I guess I'll never know...

Checking out Archinect at least once a week/15 days in the last 10/11 years... it has made some of my brain cells -at least those dealing with architecture- become American by adoption or even osmosis.

ah, and that was my comment #1200! you're all invited!

I'm from Nova Scotia but not from Canada.

@creativity expert

I'm white as they come and my hair is long and blonde and has been that way since I went to college, but I frequently get hell for it behind my back by various assholes. I had a similar incident occur when I was hanging out with some friends in Atlanta and this white skinhead was making obvious offensive comments about us to some girls he was with. So we go over there and this rail-thin 5'6" asshole is confronted by all 6'4" inches of me and 5'11" of my very black, and very athletic friend. He tried to act like he wasn't being a dick and hadn't been shit-talking us. He was so freaked out by the two of us he practically wet himself in front of all the girls he was trying to impress by talking shit about us behind our backs. We tried to get him to agree to get his ass beat down in the parking deck below us but he wasn't game. Needless to say I'd be surprised if he got laid that night.

Still, I'm surprised someone tried that shit on you in Chicago. Must've been tourists.

There is racism in New Zealand no doubt. But we are still a naive nation with an egalitarian heritage.

I am still surprised when I hear incidents like this described above happening in present day America. What I perceive, and correct me if I am wrong, is that often these racist attacks often stem from wayward 'religious' beliefs.

There is very little religious-based commentary here in the media or from politicians - you would never, ever get a Republican-type polly here standing up and thanking God about something. Would not happen.

Not alot of internationals rocking up to this thread though is there...

@Apurimac,
Yes, I think that they were pulling some baggage, and they were shocked when I turned around, growing up in the south side of Chicago, back in the 1980's especially people were a lot more respectful because back then if you insulted someone even in downtown Chicago, it would mean an automatic fight to the death, or at least a punch to the nose. Now people in downtown do their fighting after they have you arrested by getting a lawyer after you. By the way the attitude has not changed in most parts of the south side of Chicago, you will still get your ass whupped if you insult anyone, its no accident that most of my family enlisted in the Marines, or Army. That guy the made the racist comment looked like that prince who's about to get married in England, only shorter and skinnier, but yea I have noticed that people look at long hair as a sign of a rebel against accepted societal norms. I'm an Architect so yes I am a rebel by nature I guess. Since about 1995 people shaved their heads because it was the "in" thing to do, but I think that America is starting to wake up and smell the coffee, walking around with a buzz cut looking like a "Balding man" is not the best thing to do with your hair. At a certain point in life it occurred to me that not everyone can let their hair grow out. So if you can do it why not?

@Medit
Sorry if the concept of Spain insulted you or anyone from Catalonia, when I said Spain invaded Mexico 500 years ago, I meant to say both people from Catalonia, and the part that calls itself Spain invaded my ancestral homeland that was not called Mexico at the time. It would be interesting if Mexicans could re trace their family back to see if it is Catalonia or the other side Spanish. The concept of "mestizo" a person of "native Mexican origin", mixed with "European" was something very unique to the world 500 years ago. In my family I have brothers, cousins, aunts and uncles that could easily pass for Caucasian, but we choose not to, some do. But funny enough although Mexicans were pretty much decimated by around 1600, with estimates saying that there were only about 10 to 15 Thousand Natives left alive. We seem to be proud to say we are also from that part of the world called Spain. You would be surprised that many Americans don't realize that Spanish was a European language forced onto Mexicans. anyways I'm getting preachy, see ya later.

"One other aspect that this thread kind of did not touch on, is the question of how people view Americans of color. "

I'm increasingly becoming aware that "American" is not a consistent expression. Growing up, I had no recollection of personally experiencing racism, and only witnessing it directed against others a handful of times (the latter, mostly mild and mostly Anglo v Latino jibes, as is unfortunately still typical in parts of Cali). When I went back east for school (first for boarding school - although I didn't stay there at the time - and then for college), I got a big eye-opener .. where everybody, consciously or not, identified themselves by race, religion or social class (which were almost caste-like, to my way of seeing it.. such was the blatent snobbery and elitism) in ways that I never imagined possible. It was like something out of a movie for me.

Hence, I now say that my nationality is Californian.. or at least Pacific Coastal. The rest of the country is frankly just as alien to me as SE Asia or Europe (where I've lived abroad for extended periods).. outside of say NYC or Boston, it's a faraway land, of which we know little and care even less... hehe

I am Canadian but I am indebted to the American educational complex.

Hi Urbanist,
Yes ive been to California, and in LA I thought the Mexican people were very nice, but I did get a weird vive, Curiously enough I did feel like a Tourist even among the Californianos, they were really nice and friendly, but I did get a vive from some Caucasian people around me, they noticed me a "brown person" with a Nikon camera strapped around my neck walking around other LA Brown people, but I looked like a tourist, and they were staring and some commented on how i was purchasing things from the "Mexican stands" of course, and trying to figure out where I was from, it was kind of amusing how the Mexicans of California knew right away that i was not from California, It was a big eye opener for me too. Just for the threads sake I do consider myself from the USA, but i say "I'm from Chicago", everyone knows Chicago.

creativity,
don't worry I was merely discussing Archinect's official statistics.

By the way, Spanish has also been -and still is- a language forced onto Catalans. We have our own language -since at least the 12th ct-, but since 1714 and especially during Franco's 20th ct dictatorship, Catalan has been forbidden every now and then.
Fortunately, nowadays we can still make crits in arch schools in Catalan, after centuries of absolutist kings, fascist dicatators and all kinds of bullshit we have gone through... it's all about resistance. Passive resistance in our case. We don't have an army but we have a language, a culture, a history, and, what the hell, an architecture of our own as well... so, fuck them!

hehe creativity.. we can ALWAYS tell the tourists. ;-)

While I applaud this in a generalist perspective, I do agree a bit with the crazies that this is exactly the sort of thing America (specifically the US) needs less of.

And from both side.

The United States is a melting pot of mediocrity comprised of the refuse of other countries who couldn't quite agree to disagree.

And depending on the specific country and specific ethnicity one investigates, many people moved to the U.S. for all the wrong reasons.

Some people moved here to escape the fall of their monarchies.
Some people moved here to avoid socialists revolutions.
Some people moved here to avoid the rise of nationalists states.
Some people moved here to escape "the sweeping of communism across the east."
Some people moved here because Germany was really, really boring [19th-century, specifically].
Some people moved here to escape poverty, tyranny and corruption.

If you see a correlation here, it is that everyone moved here to do their own thing. And most of these things are highly incompatible. I am a strong believer in traditionalist culture. And while I do believe that poverty for the most part is created from physically-deficient people environments and ineffective and or brutal governments...

... sometimes culture itself causes poverty and by extension causes most of the problems seen above.

If your culture, your physical location and your state affairs forces you to move on the other side of the planet... perhaps you should reconsider some aspects about the things you believe in.

Albeit, this has nothing to do with Catalonians. But that attitude is something similar to the internal conflicts of America. I don't think any side is really ceding enough to make a change. I do believe that some sides need to give a little more though.

Creativity,
The California white and brown situation is an oddity in many respects - with at least four mechanisms at work: diaspora politics, strong nationalism/regionalism, irredentism and reverse irredentism. I wrote my architecture thesis on the subject. In a way, to use polisci terms, BCN is an irredente of California, while, at the same time, California is an irredente of BCN. Two peoples, with simultaneous cultural, historical, geographic and political claims to overlapping spaces within the same piece of land, at the same time, without the legitimizing and formalizing elements that are present in TX, AZ and NM. If push ever came to shove, at some distant time in the future, unwinding loyalties, identity and land in Southern California could prove to be as geopolitically messy as unwinding Palestine.

Uxbridge,
If you ever find yourself in Chicago, don't call anyone a mediocrity you could end up in the emergency room.

Creativity... that attitude is the exact attitude that perpetrates these problems.

who gives a shit. the Ashes are on and England is collapsing!

Oh no I was just giving a fellow archinector a tip for you, if you are ever a tourist here in Chicago.

ps. what makes you think you have hit on some kind of revalation? people have been fighting each other since pre historic times. after all aren't you also being passive aggressive by calling people who emigrated to this country "a melting pot of mediocrity comprised of the refuse of other countries who couldn't quite agree to disagree."

god point mouse,
the roof is on fire what the hell.

Uxbridge. I moved here to impregnate your mom. Now go buy me more brandy and cheeses, son.

Creativity X: the war is over, and you've been discharged. Did you not get the memo about stopping the bull hormone injections? Ease up muchacho.




Being a peacekeeper is hard.

Mom replied, "would you ever be, would you be my fucking boyfriend?"

he he rusty,
I don't know about bull hormone injections, that's pretty funny, but during boot camp it was rumored that our scrambled eggs which were greenish in color had something in them that would keep us from tearing each other into pieces. I'll tell you what though for all that the military is worth, it has given me a very calm demeanor, while most people panic or fall apart in a crisis, I'm standing there examining the situation to find a way to deal with it. For example when that guy in downtown insulted me, though I was angry, I had already determined which parts of his body I would have to break or dismantle, in case of an altercation.

See you later you Peace loving civilian

I'm the 0.89% if you are wandering

i'm american and belongs to that "8. China 0.98%"... i trust that u not from IRS^^

I wonder if language has something to do with it. I mean, for all we know French and Chinese speakers have their own native version of archinect. Also, are we sure that the Chinese state internet nannies (or, for that matter, the Australian ones) haven't actually blocked this website?

im an expat. does that count?

nepali. living in chicago. baffled by americans waving their flag and their unconditional love of america.

guess i'm an expat too jplourde.

am british now! GSTQ!

So - jetvancake - how do you feel about Nepal?

i was born and lived until i was nineteen, elsewhere, over the seas. i am as american as he was an american. you get the idea of what i mean in the first couple of minutes into it.

@ digger:

A sense of responsibility towards the community and culture I grew up in is what i feel. I personally consider that to be very seperate from the political construct that is Nepal as a nation.

I believe you were taking a 'dig' at my comment on US nationalsim, so let me explain:

Essentially, i dont get why the crazy bears fan - fully clad in a bear suit (which makes sense to me) - is waving a giant u.s. flag and a sign that says freedom. Its not like the other team is from another country or something.

Also, having travelled through and lived in a whole bunch of places I am not saying this nationalism is a purely American thing. From my experience though, it does seem to be the most prevalent here - followed closely by China and India.

Perhaps this is the key ingredient to global economic might.

_____

I dont mean to derail the thread, so, who else is from where else?

actually, if we go back to the original question, it should be:

I dont mean to derail the thread, so, who else is not american?

jetvancake - there was a certain 'holier than thou' aspect to your original post. thanks for the clarification.