Archinect
anchor

North America -why?

103
Elisabeth

I want to try and see whether there are many architects who share my feelings about North America. I have been here for 3 years in a 'mid-sized city' with one away, I am about to do my registration exams (having been registered in the UK before) and I don't know what I am doing! Is it just me or is this really the ugliest built region in the world? Of course there are individual buildings, not as many as there should be, but the day to day just grinds me down..the sea of asphalt and lumpy kerbs sometimes seems like all there is and all there ever will be. The utter refusal to build any kind of transportation, and the slow agony of waiting for them to see the light... I'd love to hear. Its Ontario BTW.

 
Mar 11, 10 10:51 am
comb

Yes, we are an ugly continent, populated by greedy, ignorant people who are bereft of any taste whatsoever. Stunning that so many people around the globe want to emigrate here, don't you think?

Mar 11, 10 11:00 am  · 
 · 
2step

Go home then - dont let the door hit your ass on the way out

Mar 11, 10 11:06 am  · 
 · 
Elisabeth

The post is not intended to insult (I'm actually an extremely unwilling immigrant but my partners job has me here, life throws curve balls, although most of our immigrants here are from war zones so anything is a plus).
This is meant to be a question about the state ofArchitecture in this area and the future of it. You need to defend the amount of asphalt to me, you need to explain why the transportation there was, was dismantled and why it makes sense and why I should hang around. I'm fascinated to see what will happen just not sure that my anxiety will allow me to stay and find out!

Mar 11, 10 11:25 am  · 
 · 
babs

I always find it interesting when someone from another culture pokes his/her finger in the eye of a new culture and then is surprised when members of the new culture are offended.

Elisabeth - if you're honest with yourself, you'll accept that the way you worded your OP could have little result other than what you've already received.

Mar 11, 10 11:41 am  · 
 · 
2step

i DONT NEED TO DO ANYTHING - IF YOU DONT LIKE IT, GO HOME. No job is worth staying in a place you dont like. But please, we dont go to your country, call it a toilet, and then demand a defense of it.

We invented the automobile and mass produced it. We created an entirely new way of life centered around personal mobility. And in the future we will make it cleaner and greener while other parts of the world are still playing with trains.

Mar 11, 10 11:41 am  · 
 · 
lletdownl

Elisabeth,
North America is not Europe.

its a brand new place which was built and developed almost exclusively AFTER the invention and subsequent dominance of automobiles.

There is no defending the asphalt or the singular modes of transportation; just as there is no defending the narrow, car-prohibitive streets of old world European cities. They were simply built in different times with different cultural, social and economic realities.

Complaining about it is futile. "Mid-Sized citiy" basically means suburb in all but very few examples. So if you want to be an architect in the NA and maintain your haughty disregard for american pseudo-urban culture, get to a city. Move to New York, move to Chicago, move to Boston or Seattle, head to Toronto or Vancouver.

Ugliest built region in the world - obviously thats an inflamatory statement, a lot of people love their suburbs. If you hate them so much, get proactive and try something new. North American cities are on a par with any cities in the world, and specifically in regards to modern architectural practice, places like New York and Chicago hold their own against any city any where: London, Tokyo, Singapore, Hong Kong, Paris.

Mar 11, 10 12:00 pm  · 
 · 
citizen

lletdownl, you are a hero. Post more often.

Mar 11, 10 12:02 pm  · 
 · 
Elisabeth

On the contrary mine is the eye that is being poked. This province has made almost no provision to deal with me, as a foreign architect I have to make all the running. So I am at the point of investing further in the culture and I am having doubts.
The way of life created and thus vaunted, marginalises the poor, the old, commonly women, and children as they are not admitted to its 'new way of life centred around personal mobility'. I am not convinced that changes will come in time to impact my life. I have already suffered substantially from lack of transportation options, and
I am surrounded daily by its negative impacts on the community in which I live.

Mar 11, 10 12:08 pm  · 
 · 
citizen

Respectfully, Elisabeth, you cast yourself as an utterly helpless victim --of the entire North American continent, its culture, its public policy, its built environment-- and this does not serve you well.

Are there problems, big ones, on this side of the pond? You bet.

But wallowing in self-pity --which is what you're doing here, despite your claims to discourse-- will only make you unhappier. As someone suggested above, do something in your professional capacity to make things better. For yourself, and for others.

Good luck.

Mar 11, 10 12:39 pm  · 
 · 
WinstonSmith

I think Detroit and Wash DC might take the cake for being the generally ugliest cities in North America, if not the entire world.

Mar 11, 10 12:43 pm  · 
 · 
Milwaukee08

While I can't speak much for Ontario in particular since I've only been there once for less than 24 hours, I can say that people in America have adapted to become very individualistic and selfish, caring only about themselves and their circle of friends/family, and could really give a crap about anyone else.

We don't have good public transportation (except in some major metro areas) because all the people "that matter" all have nice cars, and don't care if other people don't.

We don't have very interesting architecture (except in some major metro areas) because people are very close minded and set in their ways. We'll take expensive tacky shit over expensive quality any day, because frankly, quality takes work, tacky is easy, and if its one thing people with money don't like to do it's work.

It seems the overall goal of being an American has turned into:

1: Make more money (minimum wage is good for other people, but not for me.

2: Work less (I don't want to work harder, I want to sit behind a desk and use a computer and make phone calls and act like it's hard work)

Mar 11, 10 12:50 pm  · 
 · 
comb
"Detroit and Wash DC might take the cake for being the generally ugliest cities in North America"

oh please:

Mexico City:

Mar 11, 10 12:52 pm  · 
 · 
aquapura
Is it just me or is this really the ugliest built region in the world?

Umm, exactly how well traveled are you? I'm assuming you are from Western Europe, or at least a wealthy nation. The built environment of many places looks like crap compared to what has been built in the USA & Canada. Sure, suburban Ontario doesn't look like inner-city Paris for example, but seriously, have you traveled around enough in N. America to make an informed statement of comparison?

There is history and geographical reasons for the auto centric way of life but I don't have the time to explain nor do I think you'd have the appreciation for it.

This province has made almost no provision to deal with me, as a foreign architect I have to make all the running.

Why should Ontario bend over backwards to help you as an Architect? Do you think Germany, France, etc. would help me out if I wanted to be an Architect there?

Mar 11, 10 1:09 pm  · 
 · 
bRink

Elisabeth, the problem is, you've been here all of 3 years in a mid sized city and are generalizing about the continent... I love Europe, but I think if you keep an open mind to different aspects of new places, if you allow yourself to see more of the places, you'll realize that there is more to see, a pretty diverse set of places... Where have you been in North America? Have you lived in Montreal? Boston? New York? Chicago? Toronto? Vancouver? Seattle?Portland? San Francisco? Denver? New Orleans? Washington DC? Etc.

Also... Smaller towns, across America and the States? There is more to North America than say Hamilton... :p Not sure where you live now... Agreed there are some problem that came with the automobile and suburban sprawl, but at the same time, most Architects would probably agree... But I think there are also beautiful things to see on a huge diverse landscape here... Regional landscapes and diverse places... Have you tried taking a road trip? Drive across the continent and discover some of the beauty of driving to the west coast, the south west, to national and provincial parks... From diverse forests, mountainous landscapes to majestic places like the Grand Canyon, walk across the Brooklyn bridge, see Manhattan, desert landscapes, wine country in Washington state and California, dunes, rivers, Down to Mexico... etc. Get some good real Mexican food down south, real Southern barbecue in different places... eat Good food in Chinatowns (the best Chimese food outside of Asia in Canada), little Italy (go to Boston's North End), live among Boston Commons, Central Park, the best outside of Asia and hunt down and discover the small hole in the wall restaurant (This is the birthplace of the industrial revolution, art deco architecture, jazz, rock and roll, rhythm and blues, country, baseball, hockey, basketball, the skyscraper, modern cinema, etc... The housing here is not all the same everywhere there are diverse urban contexts, typologies that have happened in different climates... diverse cultures: you can get everything from Japanese food to great Indian food to Ethiopian food, to Italian, Spanish food, etc. You just need to know where to look... Eat lobster in Maine... Cheap and delicious!

Take a road trip! ;-)

I love alot of places on Europe, but I love North America too, it's just different...

Mar 11, 10 1:26 pm  · 
 · 
wunder_waffle

Hate to be a stickler but I believe that image above is of the notorious Dharavi slum in Mumbai, India.

Mar 11, 10 1:26 pm  · 
 · 
bRink

OMG typos... iPhone...

Meant to say: best Chinese food outside asia... Diverse kinds of food... Some great livable cities with public parks... More culturally diverse here than many places...

Also: despite alot of the pokes people make at suburbia, I actually find there are some kind of endearing aspects to North American life in the burbs... Places that are family oriented and with down to earth good natured communities generally, in the Midwest or northeast states for example... Also, honestly, even the kitchy elements of Americana like theme parks and roadside attractions, and Vegas for example, casinos is somehow unique and a little bit endearing to me lol... I mean it's part of what we are, I'm okay with it, but it's just one small piece...

Mar 11, 10 1:40 pm  · 
 · 
comb

waffles -- yeah, you're probably right -- sorry -- it looked about right from memory -- that's what I get from trusting Google.

let's try this one;

Mar 11, 10 1:43 pm  · 
 · 
Elisabeth

Oh dear, this is what happens when you're stuck in the middle of nowhere with nothing but the ARE to entertain you! Sorry everyone,
sometimes I'm burning with the injustice of it all-you know Ontario actually solicits foreign architects, so they could do better. The killer
is that I see all these problems but can't do much about them and I don't understand why the transportation that once was is all gone.

I'm very well-travelled like most people these days, not so much in the US only Boston Pittsburgh and NY, desperate to go to Chicago & Detroit which I will soon, and I need to read learning form Las Vegas. Love those shantytowns though, Cheers all.

Mar 11, 10 1:45 pm  · 
 · 
bRink

We're also the birthplace of... "computer nerds"... Jazz... Alternative rock... Break dancing... 80s music... Rap and hip hop... Westerns... the sandwich and also the movies...

Lots of other mayb trashy stuff... diner food... but I love it!!! :p

re: the built environment- if you see problems, make something new... It's an entrepreneurs world out there, and architects are in the business of ideas...

Mar 11, 10 1:52 pm  · 
 · 
2step

Well if your in Ontario then you are in the Great Lakes region and it has splendid scenery. Take a drive around the lakes for a week or two - see the Northern Forests, the Upper Peninsula, the Driftless region of Wisconsin, Stop over in Chicago and round the horn on your way back up the Michigan shore stopping at the quaint little Lake cities like New Buffalo, Traverse City, Saginaw and make your way to Grand Rapids then onto Toronto. Theres a big region right outside your door!

Mar 11, 10 1:56 pm  · 
 · 
bRink

In Ontario... Drive to... Algonquin park... Toronto downtown, night club districts, see some of the architecture there, go to the university of Toronto... Museums, etc. Eat good food, see good theatre... See fall colors, etc. Niagra Falls, including even the kitchy street of haunted houses and wax museums, wine country, Stratford Ontario and... Niagra on the Lake for their scenery and the play festivals... Shakespearean festivals, etc. Drive to Montreal, other stuff... Not everything is limited to the mundane world of suburbia... Also I think you can't really know the city unless you spend more time than just passing through... Even among suburbia there are communities there if you live and get to know people...

Mar 11, 10 2:07 pm  · 
 · 
Urbanist

interestingly, Elisabeth, to your south, here in the theocratic part of the continent (also known as the USA), we urban designers and planners view what y'all do up there in free and democratic Canada as being what we should, in our wildest dreams, be aspiring towward. You have density, intensification, civic patronage of designers, governmental commitment to sustainability (well, maybe not in Alberta), healthcare, a social welfare umbrella, human rights... we so desperately want to be you. And you're complaining? ;-)

Mar 11, 10 2:10 pm  · 
 · 
bRink

Oh ya... Try camping on Lake Huron... See amazing night skies up north.. Up North, Portaging, fishing, etc. Ontario is the country of the Group of Seven, beautiful landscapes... See the McMichael Gallery...

Mar 11, 10 2:11 pm  · 
 · 
le bossman


you know, it's also kind of a misnomer that north american only has great architecture in "the bigger cities." here in the yellowstone region, i believe we have great architecture, and greater scenery. while i'm all about the big city, it isn't the only place great architecture happens in this place. david salmela, fay jones, samuel mockebee, and many many more aren't people who are associated with big cities. we have the best university system in the world on this continent, and as a result we have great architects all over the place, if you're willing to look for them. there are plenty more worth mentioning that most people on this forum probably haven't even heard of. it isn't just all about the east coast-west coast celebrity architects.

Mar 11, 10 2:14 pm  · 
 · 
bRink

Urbanist... Ontario is not all what you're describing... There are some pretty much similar subruban sprawl area and places like most of the great lakes region, chicago etc.

Mar 11, 10 2:15 pm  · 
 · 
rza

Where in Ontario are you Elisabeth? I live in a "mid-size" city in Ontario and yes, the asphalt is hard on the eyes. The cul-de-sac's are worse, but I don't run in to them very often. You have to find a pattern within the city that you can be comfortable with. There are always niches to settle in. The idea of "settling" sounds terrible, but it is heaven to North Americans.

The political process creates change every 4, 6, 8 years and subsequently ideas are squashed, shifted, changed, or reversed for better or for worse. There are always people with a humanistic vision wanting sustainable development, but they often cannot stand up to councilors.

I am trying to escape Detroit for a bicycle friendly, non car city, to study architecture. Right now I am leaning toward Halifax.

Elisabeth, travel to Fergus, Ontario then Guelph, Stratford, Paris (ontario), Galt (Cambridge)..... you will see some communities have held themselves together during growth. Stay away from the Brampton, Markham, Newmarket... these places are all suburban.

Mar 11, 10 2:19 pm  · 
 · 
On the fence

Elisabeth,

Please do not come to Chicago or surrounding areas. Way too much asphalt for you.

Signed,

All of the midwest.

Mar 11, 10 2:21 pm  · 
 · 
Elisabeth

OK so now this has all got to stop! I'm really impressed at all the responses and the effort. bRink you're a saint, but I have landscape fatigue, thanks for all the great suggestions, and le bossman (strange name) I know you have a great university system, its just that.. what do they all do these well-trained people? (you think I haven't tried to mutate into an academic too) and Urbanist "the road to hell is paved with good intentions", I know there is such a thing as
the american city though. Enough, haven't you all got jobs/homes to go to..

Mar 11, 10 2:28 pm  · 
 · 
Milwaukee08

Agreed On the fence, we don't want your fancy Architecture here.

Now, if anyone wants to go out shopping with me for some tacky knick-knacks at Pier One, or knows where I can get some nice granite countertops for my kitchen, I'm all ears.

Mar 11, 10 2:35 pm  · 
 · 
Urbanist

bRink

I guess that you missed the sarcasm ;). The built environment in much of this continent is... well... about the tyranny of low expectations.

Mar 11, 10 2:37 pm  · 
 · 
bRink

Ya... Unemployed... :p sorry...

Just showing the other side of the coin... I do love some of the richness of European cities, admittedly there are some aspects of public urban life that can be found in Europe which are hard to come by in North America, it's just different though...

Good luck, hope you discover a place you can grow to love... Where are you from anyway?

Mar 11, 10 2:39 pm  · 
 · 
Ms Beary

looks like someone is on the verge of gaining some necessary perspectives about the built environment and how it comes to be. ;)

Mar 11, 10 2:40 pm  · 
 · 
Elisabeth

One more out of consideration for %%%%%. OK its Kitchener, you're right about the pattern thing its just too small and too fragmented to make a pattern, anyway whose pattern?
Recently I was blown away about a plan supported by council to levy a stormwater collection rate, net effect to make acres of asphalt unsustainable financially, but I wonder as you say if they can get it through and there is an election coming. It all started with the town park water quality, bizarrely supporting anything to with the park is seen as elitist, dress it up in science and sustainability everyone's on board, until they're not.
I used to network in Toronto, work in Hamilton, live in Kitchener and holiday in Europe -maybe that's a combination that works with a bit more holiday in the US, God help the planet.

Mar 11, 10 2:40 pm  · 
 · 
bRink

Urbanism... Got it... I'm pretty slow... :p

Of course, as I've been pointing out, it ain't all bad... There's interest to be found all over thus continent if we look to it, and Id like to think- potential to be found... And at the same time, IMHO beauty to be found in even the mundane...

Mar 11, 10 2:43 pm  · 
 · 
Urbanist

There is, though, to be fair a big difference in densities of urban habitation and intensity of urban activitity. I'm working on a msterplanning exercise for one of Toronto's outer go-train suburbs... amazing how much density and intensity this place tolerates, even in a totally suburban environment. Also, a lot fewer private cars per cap. It's kind of like working in a different world compared to my usual fare.

Mar 11, 10 2:44 pm  · 
 · 
bRink

Lol Kitchener... Sorry... :p

Mar 11, 10 2:44 pm  · 
 · 
bRink

You know, as good a school as Waterloo is, there's a good reason for going to the University if Toronto or say McGill or UBC instead... :p it's less depressing a place...

Mar 11, 10 2:47 pm  · 
 · 
Elisabeth

..from Dublin, Ireland, one time second city of British empire, good structure, now struggling to grow well, crash may help.

Mar 11, 10 2:55 pm  · 
 · 
Urbanist

I know many Americans who chose to go to school in Canada because of the price differential. Having great schools is one thing. Having great schools that charge you $50,000+ per year is quite another.

Mar 11, 10 2:56 pm  · 
 · 
bRink

Yeah, I would say that Canada has the interesting pov of being immediately adjacent and highly influenced historically by the States without actually being a part of the States... As far as government goes, I think there is at least some good intentions there towards sustainability... Also aspects like health care and education policy which are more advanced imho than in the States... American politics is far too partisan and ideologically, rhetoric driven...

Mar 11, 10 2:56 pm  · 
 · 
rza

Yeah, Kitchener is pretty terrible. I feel bad that you're living in Ontario this way. The only time I spent in all those suburban holes was for travel hockey.

There used to be an extensive trolley system where I live. Then the auto industry wiped it aside. People here see the automobile as integral to a "quality of life" they must keep. There were talks of a high-speed rail system connecting Windsor to Toronto (and presumably Ottawa) but I can't even guess at when this will be realized, consider our current rail system is overpriced and underused.

Mar 11, 10 3:00 pm  · 
 · 
bRink

Yeah they need high speed rail to connect the region, Would be cool, would bcomice to connect to American cities like Buffalo, Chicago, etc... Yeah, Toronto gas good enough transit, good bus system, street cars, subway... The go train to go out further...

Mar 11, 10 3:05 pm  · 
 · 
Elisabeth

You know I can study ARE and post at the same time! The nutty thing is that everyone here is excited about getting light rail which vs. people have committed to.. but they say don't hold your breath. As long as there's no intercity transit I think this will just be a kind of lifestyle add-on. 2 cars in the drive and transit?

Mar 11, 10 3:05 pm  · 
 · 
Urbanist

Canada, the US and now Mexico are all afflicted by that wonderful American invention: Euclidean zoning, propelled to absurd standards by varous post-CIAMish planning dogmas. Until Euclidean doctrine starts to fade off the books, we will continue to produce ugliness in abundance.

Mar 11, 10 3:09 pm  · 
 · 
rza

You're right, we need intercity transit before long distance high speed rail. Rail connecting more suburbs to Toronto would be positive and friendly to the GTA's smogmosphere.

I'm not sure how Kitchener, or other heavily suburbanized cities could adjust to mass transit with all those pointless loopy streets and cul-de-sac's. They aren't even walkable most of the time (no sidewalks)!

Mar 11, 10 3:14 pm  · 
 · 
Milwaukee08

Here in Wisconsin there has been talk about increasing rail transportation for the last 20 years, at least. Really nothing has been done, though they did spend 10 years and millions of dollars rebuilding the major highway interchange here in Milwaukee.

http://www.publicpurpose.com/ut-milw.htm

North America is designed around the automobile, purposefully making it more difficult to have any other successful transportation systems.


Mar 11, 10 3:17 pm  · 
 · 
Elisabeth

Now I have to google that-do you mean setbacks etc.? Sounds so nice and classical and rational though. Tricky writing CERB sheet and
Wiki, and posting..

Mar 11, 10 3:22 pm  · 
 · 
bRink

Lol... Culdesacs and no sidewalks... Sorry...

Mar 11, 10 3:25 pm  · 
 · 
d-arch

Elisabeth : good grief, have you actually been to the UK?

Parts of central London, Edinburgh, Glasgow and, I'm reliably informed, Manchester, are dynamic and quite fetching, but most of the rest is a soul-destroyingly bleak cultural and architectural wasteland. The interminable damp, the nearly constant overcast sky, the piercing white sunlight whenever the sun DOES shine, the proliferation of hideous signage, both road and otherwise, the peeling paint, the Chavs in white tracksuits and boy-racer Astra's hanging around outside council estate chip shops waiting for a chance to kick your head in out of sheer boredom, the Daily Heil, the rampant lack of ambition, the pervasive rudeness, the total exclusion from anything which makes living in Britain worthwhile unless you are in the wealthiest 5% - is any of this ringing a bell?

Mar 11, 10 3:31 pm  · 
 · 
Elisabeth

Kitchener still has fairly rigid districts, warehouse, admin etc. Nobody seesm to have told them or they don't agree that that kind of functionalism is out-of-date. I find that strange.

Mar 11, 10 3:36 pm  · 
 · 

Block this user


Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?

Archinect


This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.

  • ×Search in: