Due to this year's earlier cheating and posting of questions and answers to the areforum, NCARB is increasing the exam fees. Beginning October 1, 2009, fees increase from $170 to $210. The short article is below.
NCARB will spend $1.1 million to write new material. Is this justified to put the cost onto test takers and not get the money from the few who cheated?
That's completely unreasonable. it's a network era; the responsibility is on them to take appropriate measures. How can they justify putting cost onto all those who take the exam, as a result of a few people? It's not like a small group of people who know each other where punishing the everyone can be beneficial/relatively fair. And, agreed that the price will probably never drop back down.
Did they really think no one would remember questions and share them though? even if it wasn't in an online forum, people were 'cheating' like this for a long time, and will continue to do so. They will continually need a larger question pool and to mix it up if they want to prevent this from being reflected in people's scores.
rat race
with 77% of architects unemployed in the 5th largest city i see no reason for more anyways
and that whole LEED racket i went threw for nada pfff
it's a racket but they're the only ones hiring now that i know of...
yes it doesn't make sense to get your license now i guess, but what happens when we are out of the downturn then what? you'll be up against revit-driving , legacy leed ap, rhino-using licensed architects that you'll have to compete against. that'll be alot to catch up with i think.
I can't believe NCARB (and individual states) is still puching the ARE. It's an archaic way of thinking.
Most anyone could study up and pass the exam, whether they were trained as an architect or not. It's not a measure of whether you would make a good architect, it's more a measure of how well you study and take tests.
With the development of the IDP, that's what should be the measure for licensure. Workplace internship tied together with an online training program with clear and specific goals. IDP could be expanded even more, and it could be done completely online vs developing the exams and using testing centers etc. Make it a completely open and transparent process. Eliminate exams, go to training. You could have online exams, but don't make them a pass/fail wait 6 months standard that alienates the people you serve. Instead, make them to be used as tools to measure the development of the intern, and where results would be shared with the mentor to point out areas of strengths and weaknesses.
Each Division: $170
On 1 October 2009 the new rate of $210 per division will take effect. Candidates can schedule future exam appointments through 31 December 2009 at the current rate of $170 per division.
Listen, let me suggest something; finish the exams, get the license and call NCARB to volunteer to be a test taker and evaluator. You will be shocked at how complicated the suggestion of an online test becomes.
There are professional test writers/constructors as consultants for NCARB; hell PhD's to boot. So this online test has probably been worked over and shot down. It's not a workable method, but to understand why, you have to be there.
beta...i think projectnorth's idea would work well even without the lesser testing requirement being online...i was thinking about his 3rd. paragraph last night, and i thought it made a lot of sense as a basic shift in the process...may i suggest reading his 3rd. paragraph, but removing the word "online" in front of the word "exam"?
i think it is fundamentally wrong for the ARE's to be easily passable (if one takes the time to study for them), by anyone without architectural experience, or education.
oh, and beta, my comment was not meant to belittle the effort and knowledge, and the entire point of the ARE's...(or cost for that matter), just the basic nature of the test itself.
i hear you simples, an ongoing testing of the intern does intrigue me as a concept; it would in effect eliminate the need for state boards - and their inane minutiae and nationalize the process - with extended testing for regional differences, but the problem may lay in what then?
I have no doubt that online testing has been suggested and shot down by NCARB. And I would agree that online testing wouldn't work if the exam is the only way to become licensed. That's why I would suggest going away from the exam and moving toward rigorous training instead. I shouldn't have said online "exam", instead I would envision online white pages & worksheets that would have to be completed by the intern. The idea should be to educate the intern. IDP is a great start to the training. I just think the exam is a false validation towards become licensed.
On the shitty drafting software... I've realized I have a much better chance of failing the tests now that there is a vignette in most every test in 4.0. One little mistake in the vignette that never would have been made had the software been a little more user friendly caused me to fail an entire exam. I really really find it hard to believe those vignettes are testing anything worthwhile. If I can design and draft buildings... real, complicated buildings, which I HAVE ALREADY PROVEN many times over, shouldn't I be able to pass the stupid vignettes? Apparently not. I need an extra $210 now.
i would be remiss if i did not note that in my volunteering for NCARB it has been pointed out that the ARE's test the "minimally competent candidate." and the difference between "would" and "should" a minimally competent candidate know...
I'm with you strawbeary. I recently took PPP 4.0 and although the vignette was easy and straight forward, I got all stressed out about the drafting tolerances. will suck to fail over that...ok digression over.
I for one was aware that I could schedule exams up until Oct 1 at the $170 rate and so that is what I will do. I will save enough money that way to pay for the extra exam if I do end up failing one. It just means I have to plan the next 4 months of my life...ugh.
Forget the test increase, what about the fees NCARB charges annualy!
Look at it this way: For most of us in our early-30's, NCARB is going to be charging us, at minimum, $5,000+ over a 25 year period for 'maintaining' our record.
Rather than beat them up on the ARE Fees, I'd rather focus efforts on lowering/eliminating the annual maintenance fees. Why cant we just pay them 1 lump sum and let our record sit in a file cabinet or on some server in India.
Between AIA, NCARB, LEED and 3 state licenses, I'm shelling out $1,500 per year.
yeah i wouldnt be an AIA member if i didnt get reimbursed through my job
it does add up really fast
the one aspect of the online, more complete training rather than just studying and passing exams is that we would then have to keep up with it even more
which with architects, will be even more complaining and bitching about the whole process
some people like being able to take the exams and then be done with it and worry about their professional development on their own
I am happy that IDP is done after
I dont need someone holding my hand past my exams for my own professional development
As an architect, it is your own responsibility to keep up or its no one's fault but your own if you are passed by.
Unless i am misunderstanding you ProjectNorth, but are you suggesting something even longer than the current 3 year IDP timeline for your "rigorous training" alternate to exams?
i forget who said it, but if you are out of work right now, it makes a lot of sense to bang out your exams if possible
once things turn around, that will be a nice thing to help get your foot in the door again, when the competition for job openings will probably be tough
No, I'm not suggesting extending the time to become licensed, just a different way of going about it. We already have continuing education reqs though.
Oct 23, 09 10:28 am ·
·
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.
ARE fees to increase
Due to this year's earlier cheating and posting of questions and answers to the areforum, NCARB is increasing the exam fees. Beginning October 1, 2009, fees increase from $170 to $210. The short article is below.
http://info.aia.org/aiarchitect/thisweek09/0731/0731b_are.cfm
NCARB will spend $1.1 million to write new material. Is this justified to put the cost onto test takers and not get the money from the few who cheated?
that is effing lame.
Whhhhhhhhhhhhhhy?
to top it, i am sure the fees wont go back down once they have recouped there costs. it will become a revenue generator in a year.
That's completely unreasonable. it's a network era; the responsibility is on them to take appropriate measures. How can they justify putting cost onto all those who take the exam, as a result of a few people? It's not like a small group of people who know each other where punishing the everyone can be beneficial/relatively fair. And, agreed that the price will probably never drop back down.
Did they really think no one would remember questions and share them though? even if it wasn't in an online forum, people were 'cheating' like this for a long time, and will continue to do so. They will continually need a larger question pool and to mix it up if they want to prevent this from being reflected in people's scores.
again with this? get over it already.
we've all "drank" over this already...highlights linked below:
http://www.archinect.com/forum/threads.php?id=90424_0_42_0_C
If y'all want to do something about the fee increase try signing this petition. Maybe it might help...
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/architectural-economy
NCARB blows...So many friends have lost jobs now and are trying to keep busy by wrapping up their exams.
So, the while the whole economy sucks NCARB keeps jacking their fees which really affect those the most that make the least!
On top of the ARE fees are the ridiculous maintenance fees all while they cannot maintain a website without broken and missing links.
Try their site map here:
http://www.ncarb.org/Site-Map.aspx
"Site Map goes here"
I almost expect to see the animated guy shoveling on their website!
Bend over architects...NCARB has to redo some exams.
rat race
with 77% of architects unemployed in the 5th largest city i see no reason for more anyways
and that whole LEED racket i went threw for nada pfff
it's a racket but they're the only ones hiring now that i know of...
yes it doesn't make sense to get your license now i guess, but what happens when we are out of the downturn then what? you'll be up against revit-driving , legacy leed ap, rhino-using licensed architects that you'll have to compete against. that'll be alot to catch up with i think.
I can't believe NCARB (and individual states) is still puching the ARE. It's an archaic way of thinking.
Most anyone could study up and pass the exam, whether they were trained as an architect or not. It's not a measure of whether you would make a good architect, it's more a measure of how well you study and take tests.
With the development of the IDP, that's what should be the measure for licensure. Workplace internship tied together with an online training program with clear and specific goals. IDP could be expanded even more, and it could be done completely online vs developing the exams and using testing centers etc. Make it a completely open and transparent process. Eliminate exams, go to training. You could have online exams, but don't make them a pass/fail wait 6 months standard that alienates the people you serve. Instead, make them to be used as tools to measure the development of the intern, and where results would be shared with the mentor to point out areas of strengths and weaknesses.
project north...interesting points on your third paragraph...i'd buy that...
remember who NCARB serves, Registration Boards, interns are a small part of the picture...
Architect Registration Examination (ARE)
Each Division: $170
On 1 October 2009 the new rate of $210 per division will take effect. Candidates can schedule future exam appointments through 31 December 2009 at the current rate of $170 per division.
hhmmm that kinda fits my schedule. thanks b3tadine.
Projectnorth;
Listen, let me suggest something; finish the exams, get the license and call NCARB to volunteer to be a test taker and evaluator. You will be shocked at how complicated the suggestion of an online test becomes.
There are professional test writers/constructors as consultants for NCARB; hell PhD's to boot. So this online test has probably been worked over and shot down. It's not a workable method, but to understand why, you have to be there.
beta...i think projectnorth's idea would work well even without the lesser testing requirement being online...i was thinking about his 3rd. paragraph last night, and i thought it made a lot of sense as a basic shift in the process...may i suggest reading his 3rd. paragraph, but removing the word "online" in front of the word "exam"?
i think it is fundamentally wrong for the ARE's to be easily passable (if one takes the time to study for them), by anyone without architectural experience, or education.
sorry for the tangent, everyone.
oh, and beta, my comment was not meant to belittle the effort and knowledge, and the entire point of the ARE's...(or cost for that matter), just the basic nature of the test itself.
i hear you simples, an ongoing testing of the intern does intrigue me as a concept; it would in effect eliminate the need for state boards - and their inane minutiae and nationalize the process - with extended testing for regional differences, but the problem may lay in what then?
I have no doubt that online testing has been suggested and shot down by NCARB. And I would agree that online testing wouldn't work if the exam is the only way to become licensed. That's why I would suggest going away from the exam and moving toward rigorous training instead. I shouldn't have said online "exam", instead I would envision online white pages & worksheets that would have to be completed by the intern. The idea should be to educate the intern. IDP is a great start to the training. I just think the exam is a false validation towards become licensed.
so, putting the tools in the hands of architects then, so to speak. let them be the judge?
NCARB - thank you for using THE WORST SUCK ASS DRAFTING SOFTWARE EVER IMAGINABLE!
I just started practicing with it....bad.....really bad software....
it's changing, and get more sophisticated. it can't be autocad, but it's getting better.
On the shitty drafting software... I've realized I have a much better chance of failing the tests now that there is a vignette in most every test in 4.0. One little mistake in the vignette that never would have been made had the software been a little more user friendly caused me to fail an entire exam. I really really find it hard to believe those vignettes are testing anything worthwhile. If I can design and draft buildings... real, complicated buildings, which I HAVE ALREADY PROVEN many times over, shouldn't I be able to pass the stupid vignettes? Apparently not. I need an extra $210 now.
Project,
i would be remiss if i did not note that in my volunteering for NCARB it has been pointed out that the ARE's test the "minimally competent candidate." and the difference between "would" and "should" a minimally competent candidate know...
I'm with you strawbeary. I recently took PPP 4.0 and although the vignette was easy and straight forward, I got all stressed out about the drafting tolerances. will suck to fail over that...ok digression over.
I for one was aware that I could schedule exams up until Oct 1 at the $170 rate and so that is what I will do. I will save enough money that way to pay for the extra exam if I do end up failing one. It just means I have to plan the next 4 months of my life...ugh.
Signed the petition, hope it helps get the message out. This really is not the time to be raising ARE fees.
AREs are lame, but I still got 2 to pass.
Has anyone been able to schedule the Building Planning Exam??
I have tried multiple states and testing locations and no available appts.
I will contact Prometric/NCARB. I hate this process + higher fees + 18 weeks to get result
took an exam in georgia...12 weeks later, no results.
sons a bitches.
Forget the test increase, what about the fees NCARB charges annualy!
Look at it this way: For most of us in our early-30's, NCARB is going to be charging us, at minimum, $5,000+ over a 25 year period for 'maintaining' our record.
Rather than beat them up on the ARE Fees, I'd rather focus efforts on lowering/eliminating the annual maintenance fees. Why cant we just pay them 1 lump sum and let our record sit in a file cabinet or on some server in India.
Between AIA, NCARB, LEED and 3 state licenses, I'm shelling out $1,500 per year.
yeah i wouldnt be an AIA member if i didnt get reimbursed through my job
it does add up really fast
the one aspect of the online, more complete training rather than just studying and passing exams is that we would then have to keep up with it even more
which with architects, will be even more complaining and bitching about the whole process
some people like being able to take the exams and then be done with it and worry about their professional development on their own
I am happy that IDP is done after
I dont need someone holding my hand past my exams for my own professional development
As an architect, it is your own responsibility to keep up or its no one's fault but your own if you are passed by.
Unless i am misunderstanding you ProjectNorth, but are you suggesting something even longer than the current 3 year IDP timeline for your "rigorous training" alternate to exams?
i forget who said it, but if you are out of work right now, it makes a lot of sense to bang out your exams if possible
once things turn around, that will be a nice thing to help get your foot in the door again, when the competition for job openings will probably be tough
No, I'm not suggesting extending the time to become licensed, just a different way of going about it. We already have continuing education reqs though.
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.