RE:Y eah, I never got pre-fab either. I think it makes sense if you're building in ecologically sensitive areas-- i.e., minimizing impact be reducing onsite construction.
To me, it would really only be good for government types (Department of Interior-- semi-permanent camps for volunteers, research folks et cetera) and areas where it is too remote to get good construction materials. Pre-Fabs have never really worked in the South.
The only good thing I've heard about pre-fabs is that they reduce the overall energy consumption to build, makes clean up/recycling easier and provides better working conditions for construction works. I suppose in the long run that would start to minimize costs as there would be less health problems (see: skin cancer). It would also allow for centralization and mass-production (see: factory).
As far as modernizing them-- I think for pre-fabs to make sense... someone needs to come up with some kind of universal way and standardization for connections, siting and interchangeability. I think architects could potentially make a killing by creating an international standard for pre-fabs so that one might be able to make structures for them to fit into.
I think architects could potentially make a killing by creating an international standard for pre-fabs so that one might be able to make structures for them to fit into.
And I'd like to have a drag off whatever you're smoking over there.
not a fan really. actually, not a fan when the product is homogeneous, always the same thing over and over and over and over again, one next to the other next to the other next to the other. we need differentiation.
i like ikea though, and i think its allure is the flexibility of function and use of the furniture pieces, and at the end, its the way you set up the whole composition that makes it interesting, i just think its harder on a bigger scale, thats why we end up with homogeneity.
maybe i like prefab of elements, when the way they could be put together is flexible. i just dont want a prefab house.
i still struggle with the idea though. i find merit in employing prefab houses for emergency reasons, for refugees. its just that it operates on the lower end of maslows pyramid, first you need shelter.
fay, i think you and i are on the same page with prefab. mass housing; apartments, town homes, condos, emergency dwelling, etc...all of these types make sense from a land use, sustainability, financial perspective. from a single dwelling perspective, it winds up being, well, just ordinary.
Why would any architect turn his or her back on the opportunity to refute the very premise of the above complaints: that there is no way to maintain variety of form when designing systems of shop manufacture of building elements -- which is essentially the definition of pre-fab, isn't it ?
SDR, you're right, but what stands now has become ubiquitous, and boring. i thought that Greg Lynn was moving in that direction? i was trying to get a friend of mine to let me design an addition to his home based on the unit-body construction and 1970 Plymouth Superbird that we both loved. i thought that would be a great idea around modular/prefab construction techniques. i get frustrated by this constant use of the same vocab of form and materials that we see in the modular designs. after a while it gets simplistic and rote.
Although there's been a call, from within some parts of the Wrightian community, for an updated "Usonian house" -- and one strategy for this would be some kind of prefabrication -- I can't seem to get with the program. Among certain lay members, there is confusion between modular design strategies, and actual modular construction, where some of the same elements would presumably be combined in alternative ways to produce some variety of plan and appearance.
Because the mitered corner is virtually a given in these houses (and in Wight's work, generally), for those seeking to replicate that feature (and do it right) it would perhaps be necessary to have shop-made corner units, with field joints occurring elsewhere. If the whole idea of slavishly replicating the Usonian grammar isn't completely bogus, then some of these problems become interesting -- but somehow I can't get into it.
I've been shown a house built by a northwestern architect for himself using a system of T&G 2x6 decking, stacked on edge and secured to the foundation via vertical rods passing through aligned bores in the wood. The exterior received conventional siding on vertical battens, with insulation in the void. The interior face was left exposed. I myself would like to develop a more inclusive composite "Lincoln Log" stacking unit, also secured with vertical ties, and made so that the interior and exterior finish is integral. Is anything like this already on the books somewhere ?
I sense that a lot of architects see prefab as a way to get a foot into the door of the mass produced housing market.
There's a fantasy about prefab that we can create a product that solves all the problems (or at least the problems perceived by many in our field) of mass-market housing while delivering that product at a better (or at least equivalent) value.
As others have noted, attempts to deliver these products failed in the past and continue to do so today. The only sustained success enjoyed by prefab at all is the mobile home - and it's really only viable for small houses on flat, open lots. If mobile home builders or mass-market home builders could do larger and more complex buildings profitably, they would be.
If there's any hope for well designed prefab to come to the mass market, it's really going to take a lot more substantial effort from our profession than we've given it so far. Architects keep designing beautiful prototype prefab homes, perhaps thinking eventually one will be appealing enough to catch on, but not completely understanding what it would take to make it happen. Whenever you see one of these prototypes in a magazine the designer always says something along the lines of "this house cost $400,000 to build because it's a one-off, but if we could mass produce this thing we could get it below $100,000".
Well, there needs to be a plan for making that happen. Nobody is ever going to design a sexy enough box that the design alone will sell itself to the masses. If anyone is to succeed at prefab housing for the masses, they will have to invent the manufacturing process pretty much from the ground up.
holz, i love that slab house. thats exactly what i mean.
4arch, be it prefab or anything else, people hold on to "grand ideas" that they think will solve all the problems of the world, and architects are especially great at that, look at sustainability. on a more cynical side, it could be a way to create an image of oneself as a "pre fab architect" "sustainable architect". in all honesty , we know that no one idea will save the world, and it takes an amalgamation of many different factors, thats why this slab house is so cool.
I threw this together right now in a fit of hangover.
This is what I was talking about building frames for modular homes... rather than designing individual homes.
The spec I used was the maximum size something can be hauled by truck... 20' by 48'... giving options for 960, 1920 and 2880 sqft sized homes plus roof space!
Sorry about the gold framing... I was trying to go for more of a bronze but vectorworks is the only half-assed rendering program I have. I kind of like it!.
Then by all means design something in the medium -- its inventor couldn't be dragged into doing so !
Neato, hillandrock. That's quite some trellis ! Maybe the shear trusses at each end could be moved closer to the middle (surrounding vertical circulation and services ?) and auto elevator storage could occur in the "waste space" ?
I like the subtle variations in unit height and width. Is the second level reserved for guests and servants ?
From not being swiss? Or from looking at bad prefab?
The thing about the slab prefab, is that it’s not as limiting in height, which is one of my biggest issues w/ having to look at double-wide abortions like MKD’s…
"Neato, hillandrock. That's quite some trellis ! Maybe the shear trusses at each end could be moved closer to the middle (surrounding vertical circulation and services ?)"
The back side has you covered on this-- I made it more or less a grid to accommodate an elevator.
"and auto elevator storage could occur in the "waste space" ?"
I thought about it but at the same point... that's kind of an unnecessary expense. The point here was to essentially haave a vertical trailer park. In essence, I find one of the problems with Pre-Fab is that Pre-Fab can be the antithesis of urbanism as Pre-Fab tends to deal with the individual unit on the individual lot.
All this was an exercise of showing that it's really not that hard to glue homes to wall. I gave consideration to what I find to be the most important aspect to outside space... the space in and around entrances.
"I like the subtle variations in unit height and width. Is the second level reserved for guests and servants?"
No, my idea was more or less that it is easier to hang a picture from a nail in the wall than it is to hang a shelf to put something on.
These cantilevered structures are pretty much dangerous and stupid (although they are counterweighted). But the idea was to make them more of a function of hanging than creating a lever to build something on. If this makes any sense?
While this structure is 35 stories high, it is only actually 6 floors. I figured from a cost perspective it makes more sense this way. And sicne it is a structure with a basic finish and basic plumbing, the costs are even lower.
The two-storied double wides were to just show you could accomodate different housing sizes (essentially verticle lot sizes) by adjusting the spacing between floors on the structure-- Ie, only two story pre-fabs can be put on the second floor.
This works more into providing a basic framework to let people finish their interiors and exteriors however they please (a fundamental to homeownership) without a governing body telling them otherwise.
Last but not least-- I would say that Pre-Fab cost for each 3 story unit would be ballpark between 350-700k a piece.
And the "lot space"-- Well I'd say a structure like this would probably run about 18-20 million? At 36 units per structure... that comes out to be about 500k a lot.
If we look at this in terms of New York realty, one of my Pre-Fabs on a stick runs about a million bucks a unit.
A single-family single-home 3,000 square foot house in Manhattan with a 1,000 square foot terrace seems to run in the price range of 5-8 million. That's at least a 4 million dollar savings.
My idea can house 36 houses in the size of a typical brownstone lot at roughly 1/6th the price per "nearest" neighbor property.
I see, you don’t know how to pick up a dictionary to look up the word abortion. It has an alternate meaning (from the on used by your hypocritical friends), monstrosity, i.e. an excessively bad or shocking example.
i'm sure they can... but you would have to probably have heavy detailed contracts and copyrights/etc... maybe get some patents on assemblies or something.
you might be able to 'license' a company to build you pre-fabs for a certain amount of time also.
Two double-wides, and your wonder-wall, all in the width of a single brownstone ? Hmm. Well I like your scheming, anyway. If the numbers really work that way, congratulations. I always liked those plug-in structures, like from the Archigram era, and Kurokawa's Capsule Tower (Tokyo, 1971).
the design was for the evolve comp a few months back.. you know the comp where all the projects look the same..yeah that one...
the idea was about sustainable design so my idea was about utilizing local material and labor to create the project. project was based in detroit and utilizing structured components/members from abandoned buildings and steel mills. using local trade labor and setting up 'sectors' in which these buildings could be built. each 'building/project' would have a program that included living/training/retail/storage/urban farming to regulate itself....etc..etc..etc...
some more pics.... i took alot of angle pics of the building and lined them up
board 1 (left)
board 2 (right)
maybe the helicopters and paratroopers were tooo much..hahah
i was going to try to learn some rendering skillz when i was doing the comp. but decided that i like the simple/black/white look a lot better. plus i don't have the patience to learn some rendering/modelling program just to make some hottness
would be nice to see some other 'techniques' in presentations also. maybe using trace/overlays on boards/etc.... computer renderings can seem sooo flat at times....
i was going for the 'imagery' of the boards and creating a 'theme' for the building/layout. plus with the pre-fab/sustainable idea of working with local materials, i thought i would have placed in the comp....hahahah
May 31, 09 6:53 pm ·
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Pre(tty)-Fab(ulous) Thread
Let's talk about pre-fabs!
RE:Y eah, I never got pre-fab either. I think it makes sense if you're building in ecologically sensitive areas-- i.e., minimizing impact be reducing onsite construction.
To me, it would really only be good for government types (Department of Interior-- semi-permanent camps for volunteers, research folks et cetera) and areas where it is too remote to get good construction materials. Pre-Fabs have never really worked in the South.
The only good thing I've heard about pre-fabs is that they reduce the overall energy consumption to build, makes clean up/recycling easier and provides better working conditions for construction works. I suppose in the long run that would start to minimize costs as there would be less health problems (see: skin cancer). It would also allow for centralization and mass-production (see: factory).
As far as modernizing them-- I think for pre-fabs to make sense... someone needs to come up with some kind of universal way and standardization for connections, siting and interchangeability. I think architects could potentially make a killing by creating an international standard for pre-fabs so that one might be able to make structures for them to fit into.
Prefab is dead.
And I'd like to have a drag off whatever you're smoking over there.
Did you see this http://www.jetsongreen.com/2008/09/prefab-is-not-t.html from the SIPs thread ? Seems to be a guy who tried prefab, now promotes SIPs. . .for what it's worth.
not a fan really. actually, not a fan when the product is homogeneous, always the same thing over and over and over and over again, one next to the other next to the other next to the other. we need differentiation.
i like ikea though, and i think its allure is the flexibility of function and use of the furniture pieces, and at the end, its the way you set up the whole composition that makes it interesting, i just think its harder on a bigger scale, thats why we end up with homogeneity.
maybe i like prefab of elements, when the way they could be put together is flexible. i just dont want a prefab house.
i still struggle with the idea though. i find merit in employing prefab houses for emergency reasons, for refugees. its just that it operates on the lower end of maslows pyramid, first you need shelter.
fay, i think you and i are on the same page with prefab. mass housing; apartments, town homes, condos, emergency dwelling, etc...all of these types make sense from a land use, sustainability, financial perspective. from a single dwelling perspective, it winds up being, well, just ordinary.
Kinda like the i-phone. Totally ordinary.
Why would any architect turn his or her back on the opportunity to refute the very premise of the above complaints: that there is no way to maintain variety of form when designing systems of shop manufacture of building elements -- which is essentially the definition of pre-fab, isn't it ?
SDR, you're right, but what stands now has become ubiquitous, and boring. i thought that Greg Lynn was moving in that direction? i was trying to get a friend of mine to let me design an addition to his home based on the unit-body construction and 1970 Plymouth Superbird that we both loved. i thought that would be a great idea around modular/prefab construction techniques. i get frustrated by this constant use of the same vocab of form and materials that we see in the modular designs. after a while it gets simplistic and rote.
I just couldn't understand how the pre-fab trend got so big recently; thank God it has passed.
It has been tried, tested and failed so many times over the course of the 20th century; when will people learn...
Although there's been a call, from within some parts of the Wrightian community, for an updated "Usonian house" -- and one strategy for this would be some kind of prefabrication -- I can't seem to get with the program. Among certain lay members, there is confusion between modular design strategies, and actual modular construction, where some of the same elements would presumably be combined in alternative ways to produce some variety of plan and appearance.
Because the mitered corner is virtually a given in these houses (and in Wight's work, generally), for those seeking to replicate that feature (and do it right) it would perhaps be necessary to have shop-made corner units, with field joints occurring elsewhere. If the whole idea of slavishly replicating the Usonian grammar isn't completely bogus, then some of these problems become interesting -- but somehow I can't get into it.
I've been shown a house built by a northwestern architect for himself using a system of T&G 2x6 decking, stacked on edge and secured to the foundation via vertical rods passing through aligned bores in the wood. The exterior received conventional siding on vertical battens, with insulation in the void. The interior face was left exposed. I myself would like to develop a more inclusive composite "Lincoln Log" stacking unit, also secured with vertical ties, and made so that the interior and exterior finish is integral. Is anything like this already on the books somewhere ?
Michelle Kaufmann had to close due to recession problems, but she had been doing some pretty interesting stuff.
I sense that a lot of architects see prefab as a way to get a foot into the door of the mass produced housing market.
There's a fantasy about prefab that we can create a product that solves all the problems (or at least the problems perceived by many in our field) of mass-market housing while delivering that product at a better (or at least equivalent) value.
As others have noted, attempts to deliver these products failed in the past and continue to do so today. The only sustained success enjoyed by prefab at all is the mobile home - and it's really only viable for small houses on flat, open lots. If mobile home builders or mass-market home builders could do larger and more complex buildings profitably, they would be.
If there's any hope for well designed prefab to come to the mass market, it's really going to take a lot more substantial effort from our profession than we've given it so far. Architects keep designing beautiful prototype prefab homes, perhaps thinking eventually one will be appealing enough to catch on, but not completely understanding what it would take to make it happen. Whenever you see one of these prototypes in a magazine the designer always says something along the lines of "this house cost $400,000 to build because it's a one-off, but if we could mass produce this thing we could get it below $100,000".
Well, there needs to be a plan for making that happen. Nobody is ever going to design a sexy enough box that the design alone will sell itself to the masses. If anyone is to succeed at prefab housing for the masses, they will have to invent the manufacturing process pretty much from the ground up.
There is prefab (double wide)
And then there is prefab (slab)
I’m pretty convinced the doublewide may be done (please?!?) and the slab will be around for a while.
SDR, would you mind emailing the 2x6 t&g info to me? danke sehr
holz, i love that slab house. thats exactly what i mean.
4arch, be it prefab or anything else, people hold on to "grand ideas" that they think will solve all the problems of the world, and architects are especially great at that, look at sustainability. on a more cynical side, it could be a way to create an image of oneself as a "pre fab architect" "sustainable architect". in all honesty , we know that no one idea will save the world, and it takes an amalgamation of many different factors, thats why this slab house is so cool.
I wonder why so much material was expended to make the slab house (apparently) taller than necessary ? Do 8-foot residents live there ?
I threw this together right now in a fit of hangover.
This is what I was talking about building frames for modular homes... rather than designing individual homes.
The spec I used was the maximum size something can be hauled by truck... 20' by 48'... giving options for 960, 1920 and 2880 sqft sized homes plus roof space!
http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww124/hampshiresire/modularhomes.jpg
http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww124/hampshiresire/modularhomes2.jpg
Sorry about the gold framing... I was trying to go for more of a bronze but vectorworks is the only half-assed rendering program I have. I kind of like it!.
haha ops.
i am personally a fan of 3d-h.
i can barely select a surface in rhino.
i'm not even sure I stick a toe in stereoscopic rendering.
Then by all means design something in the medium -- its inventor couldn't be dragged into doing so !
Neato, hillandrock. That's quite some trellis ! Maybe the shear trusses at each end could be moved closer to the middle (surrounding vertical circulation and services ?) and auto elevator storage could occur in the "waste space" ?
I like the subtle variations in unit height and width. Is the second level reserved for guests and servants ?
Does it hurt all the time, holz?
From not being swiss? Or from looking at bad prefab?
The thing about the slab prefab, is that it’s not as limiting in height, which is one of my biggest issues w/ having to look at double-wide abortions like MKD’s…
Knew it.
Were you *actually* a fish, you'd be grilling up nicely right about now.
Clown.
"Neato, hillandrock. That's quite some trellis ! Maybe the shear trusses at each end could be moved closer to the middle (surrounding vertical circulation and services ?)"
The back side has you covered on this-- I made it more or less a grid to accommodate an elevator.
"and auto elevator storage could occur in the "waste space" ?"
I thought about it but at the same point... that's kind of an unnecessary expense. The point here was to essentially haave a vertical trailer park. In essence, I find one of the problems with Pre-Fab is that Pre-Fab can be the antithesis of urbanism as Pre-Fab tends to deal with the individual unit on the individual lot.
All this was an exercise of showing that it's really not that hard to glue homes to wall. I gave consideration to what I find to be the most important aspect to outside space... the space in and around entrances.
"I like the subtle variations in unit height and width. Is the second level reserved for guests and servants?"
No, my idea was more or less that it is easier to hang a picture from a nail in the wall than it is to hang a shelf to put something on.
These cantilevered structures are pretty much dangerous and stupid (although they are counterweighted). But the idea was to make them more of a function of hanging than creating a lever to build something on. If this makes any sense?
While this structure is 35 stories high, it is only actually 6 floors. I figured from a cost perspective it makes more sense this way. And sicne it is a structure with a basic finish and basic plumbing, the costs are even lower.
The two-storied double wides were to just show you could accomodate different housing sizes (essentially verticle lot sizes) by adjusting the spacing between floors on the structure-- Ie, only two story pre-fabs can be put on the second floor.
This works more into providing a basic framework to let people finish their interiors and exteriors however they please (a fundamental to homeownership) without a governing body telling them otherwise.
Last but not least-- I would say that Pre-Fab cost for each 3 story unit would be ballpark between 350-700k a piece.
And the "lot space"-- Well I'd say a structure like this would probably run about 18-20 million? At 36 units per structure... that comes out to be about 500k a lot.
If we look at this in terms of New York realty, one of my Pre-Fabs on a stick runs about a million bucks a unit.
A single-family single-home 3,000 square foot house in Manhattan with a 1,000 square foot terrace seems to run in the price range of 5-8 million. That's at least a 4 million dollar savings.
My idea can house 36 houses in the size of a typical brownstone lot at roughly 1/6th the price per "nearest" neighbor property.
Ahh, kurt.
I see, you don’t know how to pick up a dictionary to look up the word abortion. It has an alternate meaning (from the on used by your hypocritical friends), monstrosity, i.e. an excessively bad or shocking example.
The first building you posted is pretty hottttt, ether.
pre-fab..... make sure you get your cut/royalties on each 'project/unit' built....
and if you want to do pre-fab... get your contractors license and make your own projects work. be your own developer...
Can't an architect sell a shareware version of their drawings and or plans?
As in... you only have a year to use these or you can only make thirty duplicates off this document?
i'm sure they can... but you would have to probably have heavy detailed contracts and copyrights/etc... maybe get some patents on assemblies or something.
you might be able to 'license' a company to build you pre-fabs for a certain amount of time also.
interesting idea hillandrock.
who would own sagrada familia now?
Two double-wides, and your wonder-wall, all in the width of a single brownstone ? Hmm. Well I like your scheming, anyway. If the numbers really work that way, congratulations. I always liked those plug-in structures, like from the Archigram era, and Kurokawa's Capsule Tower (Tokyo, 1971).
a comp. i entered a few months back... sort of a prefab idea...but just for the living quarters (bottom left area under helicopter)
Tell us more. Cool image.
the design was for the evolve comp a few months back.. you know the comp where all the projects look the same..yeah that one...
the idea was about sustainable design so my idea was about utilizing local material and labor to create the project. project was based in detroit and utilizing structured components/members from abandoned buildings and steel mills. using local trade labor and setting up 'sectors' in which these buildings could be built. each 'building/project' would have a program that included living/training/retail/storage/urban farming to regulate itself....etc..etc..etc...
some more pics.... i took alot of angle pics of the building and lined them up
board 1 (left)
board 2 (right)
maybe the helicopters and paratroopers were tooo much..hahah
Subtle use of military khaki, too ? Why not ? I lik-ee. . .
i have a tank in there too.....under the access denied text
Tank ? You mean, an SPCV -- a Swords-to-Plowshares Construction Vehicle. . .?
tank as in... military tank.... it's an urban jungle out there...
I know. A tiny joke. Maybe a yellow Caterpillar, painted green (another joke) ? I assumed the 'copters were aiding construction -- or something.
Anyway, totaly cool. Archigram meets Gordon Matta-Clark ?
i was going to try to learn some rendering skillz when i was doing the comp. but decided that i like the simple/black/white look a lot better. plus i don't have the patience to learn some rendering/modelling program just to make some hottness
would be nice to see some other 'techniques' in presentations also. maybe using trace/overlays on boards/etc.... computer renderings can seem sooo flat at times....
I like yours a lot. It makes sense for a project that is nowhere near ready for CDs -- no ?
A small group of Wright's early renderings were done that way -- they're some of the most-often seen images of his early work.
i was going for the 'imagery' of the boards and creating a 'theme' for the building/layout. plus with the pre-fab/sustainable idea of working with local materials, i thought i would have placed in the comp....hahahah
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