I know exactly what you're talking about. I've been going through similar hoops and applying to lots of places for a survival job, but I've noticed that most places will, like you said, say I'm "over qualified" or just give me some lame answer. I'm only 24, MArch, so I really don't have much experience doing much except going to school. I believe the reason most of the places didn't take me on is because in their mind [and my own], it's a survival job, I won't care about anything except the paycheck and they know once the market starts picking up I'm going to bounce. They're right, I don't plan on selling shoes if I can get a job in the field which I studied in. Keep at it though.

Make a parallel move instead of seeking positions way under your skills and experience level. Go after project management positions in different market sectors, where you will be competing with a smaller pool of professionals, and where your career move more convincing in the interview.

Change your attitude. No one wants to hire someone who sees the position as a mere survival job. Tell them why you are the right "fit" for this job, and why you are passionate about this new chosen field, why you mean to stay.

Tap into your network, so your resume will be on top of the pile. HR is flooded with applications that they cannot finish reading.

I went through similar experience like you. I never heard anything from entry level positions. However, after applying for several PM level jobs, I was contacted for a position that is more senior. Obviously I was selling myself short before, making myself overqualified, thus never be considered.

Hope this help. Good luck!

My full-time job is maxxing out whatever credit i can git mah hands on!

Joseph, did you just Thank me? If so, you misspelled mah name.

aH MEAN: mAH nAME...

sierra, your advice about parallel moves is welcome and encouraging. it would be helpful to hear your take on what sectors and fields showed potential for you. seeing as most sectors and fields are swept into the downturn, architects might have better chances at finding jobs in fields whose practitioners also aren't laid off in droves. (i.e. if i apply for a pm job with a contractor or engineer, i'm at a disadvantage by being in competition with all the people who have expertise in those fields who have been laid off). Perhaps government or green energy?

Mysteryman - it was you who was off in Angola was it not? How did that work out.
d

subsistence farming? apply for volunteer work on a CSA.

start your own business - as web designer or property manager or whatever can start from your bedroom - i heard a few weeks ago a pair of women in calif opened up a business to clean up / clear up houses after evictions and are making a killing - go with the flow - it might be scarey but its the way forward and the worst thing is that you might fail or get fired by the boss [which is of course you!]

What I'm hearing locally to me is many firms are reducing employee hours in lieu of full layoffs. So, many people are still employed, just working 32 or less hours with porportional pay cuts. Colleagues that went through similar in the 1990 recession say back then everyone was waiting tables or stocking grocery shelves in the free time. Today, those jobs just aren't available. Another reason I feel we are going to see the loss of an entire generation of architects. Anyone making a "parallel" move is likely to never return.

"I feel we are going to see the loss of an entire generation of architects" -aquapura

that was also feared during the oil crisis of the 70's, but some of this generation went back/stayed in academia, developed their ideas further on paper without building and became yesterdays "starchitects"

to quote philosopher and football-hero Johan Cruijff:

every disadvantage has its advantage

what will you be doing Tumbles?

picking weeds?

Anti -- hey. how's your job search?

Tumbles...you ion the mary jane eradication team?

DOA

It looks like there is a little bit of discussion on this, though I was hoping to hear more about what type of positions people we finding or migrating to.

Seirra- I have been applying at all levels that I would be able to confidently perform in. I am trying to find "survival" work just to stop the bleeding. Also what person of any skill or education level doesn't look at a surviavl job as a temporary position. Even a high school drop out will leave a $9 p/h job for one that's paying $12. they may be uneducated, but they're not dumb.

The only issue is there are hundreds if not thousands in the competition pool here in Oregon and it doesn't seem to be getting better. Most companies are still laying off and/or on hold until signs of things turning.

I have recently been able to find a $10 p/h phone support position for the mobile phone industry, but I'm fighting it and looking very hard for something better, even waiting tables if need be.

Well I hope all this is soon behind us and we can get building again.

Thanks for your comments and good luck.

I never thought I'd say this, but I actually think I have a better chance going back to Eastern Europe--where my family emigrated from in the first place...can't wait to alleviate my combined 100K student debt with Bulgarian leva!

Vasilena,
I believe the current situation in Eastern Europe is not good at all from what I know. I personally would not count on the going back scenario even as a joke ... unless your family is very well connected there and can help you start your own practice right away. Even with that, having a practice there could be a more serious challenge than you could have imagined...Have you been to your old country recently?

I know the UK is a rough place for architects at the moment. I was there working for S.*.M London when half the staff was laid off in Nov, 08.

According to British Design Magazine, the architect unemployment rate is up 800% from last year.

There are more people by far looking for "survival" jobs than are available. The specificity of the position will determine who gets the job, and that could be as easy as finding a needle in a haystack for the applicant. What would you do if you were trying to fill a position. Wouldn't you find the exact match with so many to choose from?

It can easily come down to what some skill you picked up by coincidence while working on something else, or someones perception of you leaving as soon as you find a job in your field.

It's starting to feel like a crap shoot when looking for a job, and statistically, the only way to get one is to keep rolling the dice, and move to where the game has better odds.

yeah that's because this country is being stripped by evil groups and corporations who don't give a shit about anyone or anything but themselves and global control. this whole shithouse is going down in flames

yeah that's because this country is being stripped by evil groups and corporations who don't give a shit about anyone or anything but themselves and global control. this whole shithouse is going down in flames

*insert black flag/ dead kennedys-esque punk breakdown here*

Hey I am a ex-corporate firm associate...the rational / logic that the "goliath's" use is absolutely whacked. Looking around at the group I was in, most of the laidoff employees were family people, working 50+ hours a week. We would have gladly taken a 4 day work week and 25% paycut, if it meant we were still employed. But someone has to pay for their lifestyle. Someone has to insure that THEIR offspring are still employed, even though their experience is lacking.....

You know you're screwed when they start putting VP and associate principal level employees on your team. Most come with a prima donna attitude and go out of their way to create issues to justify their existence on the team. Their addition is more of a hinderence, but hey somebody's been kissing someone's butt somewhere, instead of working.....

"Survival" jobs? "Parallel" jobs? Being your own "boss"? I have thought of all these possibilities and they sound intriguing. Do I want to go back to work for some one that I give more time and attention to than my own flesh and blood? And when they let you go - there's never enough warning - "God forbid, the employee might screw us more than we are screwing them!!!"

"It's not personal, it's business." How many of you in the same boat have heard that? It's "business" when you work 40 hours a week, Monday through Friday. It's "business" when you are out of the office by 5PM.

Most architects / designers, no matter if you are just "designing" or doing construction work, take things past the 40 hour / week - work weekends, stay late. Bless you, too. You dedicated, passionate folk - I hope YOU and I find something soon.

I had to vent, before I hit "submit", I would like to offer some nuggets of info, for some I may be preaching to the choir, others, it may be a light bulb you need...think outside of the box, NOW or prepare to fail!

- Government: Building Department ---->Plans reviewer, Code Official
- Government: Higher Education----->Campus or Univ. System Arch.
- Real Estate: Commercial----->Owner's rep, Project Manager
- Corporate: Most have an internal design department, staff arch.
- Residential: Folks need more space - but not a move. Additions!
- Product design: We have opinions on everyday "things" - i.e. DWELL
- Drafting: Bill yourself as a "gun for hire" - do the contract thing
- Graphic design: Some of us have an "eye" for what looks right.

Good luck and as the boys from Hermosa Beach you to sing back in the 80s - RISE ABOVE!!!!

they, the cogs of the lifeless institutions?

Vote Pirate!

well have you guys thought about moving to another country for a job? I went to school in the US but ended up moving to Mexico City because I wanted to get some international experience.
I know the firm I work for is hiring interns, and I know of at least 3 more firms that are as well.
I also realize that most people have loans which means that getting paid in a foreign currency could be a problem.

But... anyway.

What it takes? It takes "cojones" - the ladies too..., it also takes courage to finally admit the situation... I have a bach. in Arch , a master's in Landscape Arch. and have looked for a job for about 8 months; 3 years ago, I would apply to a job and get a response from 3 firms..., I remember having a discussion with my Father one day and he was talking about something I did not understand at the time, he was talking about part of the world's problem was JOBS !!! , back then I responded with a certain attitude that I could go anywhere I wanted and find a job, I had never gone through this, and likely none of you either, this is new to us, but you know what, our parents survived this kind of shit, maybe a couple times, their parents did also, somehow they pulled together...

Now is the time to go hard for your License, if you do not have it, go for LEED if you do not have it, get better at 3d, whatever.... spend time with your family if you have it..., good times will come back, unless it is the end of the world and we are all screwed anyway, good times always come back...so get ready for a higher salary when the time comes, and get continuing education out of the way, then it will all be work and little play....and you will miss this time off....you know it....I know politico rhetoric right?... not really.... more like food for thought....
I rellied on my past military and got a seasonal job as security in a water park, they know I will be gone, but they are seasonal anyway, we both know it is for the short term......it took some "waking up" to downgrade, I barely pay the bills but now I enjoy the time with my family, time i had not given them before either because I was studying or working the high paying job, so know I have a flex schedule and have the time to study and pass those tests to get licensed...
I was offered a 70K/yr job in Saudi , house and company car and all..., was ready to go, but for me is different, i have two kids now..., not really great idea if I could get by here, but for those of you single, there are jobs out there, just not around the corner from your hometown..., if not start a biz, wash cars, whatever, if you do this it will make you stronger, humbler and when the money comes again you will have learned to save for a rainy day and to better invest and account for our money, us Architects suck at that...
just survive... Forrest Gump: just keep breathing!
and I will add, learn to breathe calmly... relax ... I am still learning...it is a good experience, it will make us better Architects, better persons.... stay upbeat, we'll do fine...

I do love the fact that I really do believe that people will come out of this as better architects. So many of my friends are finding ways to become better architects- they're going back to school, getting LEED certification, going to conferences, reading...

I think I would rather have a survival job in retail right now then at the office I am at right now.

There was something very calming about alphabetizing CD's at Borders. There is nothing calming about CD's at an office.

Retail stores give you discounts on cool stuff that make your life better. Offices give you discounts on prescriptions to make you delusional enough to think your POS like is getting better.

Retail stores allow you to have conversations with people and be around other all kinds of randomness. I'm lucky if anyone even walks by my cubicle, let alone engages in any interesting conversation other than "so...what project you working on?"

Well will the "survival" job pay for your mortgage? Keep a roof over not just your head, but your loved ones too?

As the days have turned to weeks and weeks into months, I am about to do my own thing...residential projects, "consulting", or even "art".....hmmm maybe retail will be better after all!!!

FYI as a TX architect, found out yesterday that not only do we have to worry if the banks will loan money for projects, but if the engineers can practice architecture...bastards!

http://www.areforum.org/forums/forum16/87247.html

hey dots and lines, you made me laugh...., I am now enjoying talking to many different people from different walks of life... I am sure enjoying this for a change and going to miss this when I go for the bucks again..., but can also understand why many architects will not want to go back to the lonesome cubicles unless you are lucky enough to find that true "studio" setting which many firms praise they have, but was just for the photo brochure....
D.

.._. .._ _._. _._

You should be happy you are employed in the field of your choice. Today, in this economy. When it's booming you can complain all you like and I'll sympathize and commiserate with you .

^ yes and no.

see, it's like telling the proctologist that really wants to be a brain surgeon that he/she should be happy because at least he/she is employed in their (overall) field of choice. Just because 2 jobs have the heading "architecture" doesn't exactly make them the same as one will be challenging, rewarding and leave you with a feeling of making the world a better place and the other will be nothing but dealing with peoples shit.

dots and lines, i totally agree with you.

if you are 'lucky' enough to keep the job you hate in a recession, having no raise or bonus or compelling work in the forseeable future definitely leads one to question if this is how you wish to spend the precious years of your life.

So with all this being said is considering going for my MArch not a good idea since the economy is so shitty?

it's the best idea. do it.

and i'm tired of people crying about the economy. it's not hopeless. move on.

its just discouraging when I hear so many people getting laid off, and since the economy is so bad that construction is severely slowed... It would suck to think that I gave up on my dream because George W. ran us into this shithole.

most of the people complaining have nothing better to do. yeah, there are more lay-offs than usual, but that just means you have to work a little harder. george w. didn't run us into a shit hole, this country was bought a long time ago. i don't encourage anyone to give up on their dreams.

'now' is the best time ever, probably in our lifetime, to pursue your dreams. the establishment doesn't know which way is up, business as usual doesn't work quite like it used to. therefore, just about anything has merit, if you can figure out how to make it work. those who complain their way through this whole thing would be complaining if everything were perfect. get off your ass and make a difference in your life and others.

+1 to athenaeum.

(wish archinect had an upvote/downvote system for comments/posts).

um he was just playing off of what i said

I generally find the people blasting the "complainers" are the ones who already have the jobs they wanted.

Easy for you to say to "move on: when your not the one who is actually making an effort to do so but is fighting thousands of others doing the same.

Hello pot, my name is kettle.

I gave up complaining.

I've just admitted that I'm mildly-retard full-of-non-sense with little marketability or profitability. Also, that my degree is worthless and I spent 6.5 years in vain earning it-- that it prepared me for nothing, that I have no real skills and that I can't compete.

I should have just joined the army.

But now I'm just looking for any BS job with some of the places saying that I'm too experienced or too qualified to work for them.

So, I'm too lame for a professional job and to qualified to be "Assistant Sales Manager at XYZ Cellphone Hut."

Anyone else been approached by multi-level marketing people? Man, talk about a whipping. It's like blood in the water - they come out from under every rock.

Generally I think those who blast the "complainers" are in some sense ignorant of the employment situation out there. My local AIA chapter believes that unemployment among registered Architects is over 40% locally. Can't imagine what it's like for the interns and CAD techs, etc.

The real kick in the teeth is that our degrees do make us "overqualified" for safety/survival jobs. People always have tons of sympathy for the laid off UAW worker who ends up working at Wal-Mart for a massive pay reduction. What about the Architect that can't even get a job at Wal-Mart because he is overqualified.

In times like these our degrees are more of a burden than asset, and I find that a perfectly acceptable reason to bitch like crazy. We are not alone in this regard either. Have a friend with an engineering degree who has been unemployed for over a year now and received many "over qualified" rejections.

So as I asked before is it stupid to try and break into the field by getting my MArch? I think architecture is such an amazing field and I have wanted to get my MArch for some time but had doubts I could measure up. But after reading and doing countless hours of research I feel like it is a great fit with what I want to do. With that being said though, should I give up on this fantasy dreamworld or should I still go for it? and if I did go for my MArch should I try and get into a program that offers extra things along with the MArch? Like a dual MBA program? a Masters of Regional Planning/MArch? I have a year off because I was originally going to recieve my Masters in regional Planning but after talking with countless people in that profession and doing research I dont think its definitely for me right now and I know with an architecture degree I could possibly break into that field anyway... I was thinking of taking this year off to build up my portfolio and attend classes at the local community college where I could get a cert in CAD, Computer Information Systems, Buisness-Entreprenuership, Buisness-Office technologies, Buisness Studies, and Computer Web development... I thought getting the cert in CAD would be the smartest thing to do with this year off if I was going for my MArch in 2010, but maybe I am wrong... should I try to get a cert in one of the buisness fields? should I try to get an associates in one of the buisness fields and take a second year off to see how the economy is in 2 years instead of 1 before I go for my MArch? This really sucks being a college graduate in times like this, I wish I could get my MArch and be an architect, but with everything I have been learning, I need to go that extra like five miles to make myself more and more and more competitive. Any advice?

"I find that a perfectly acceptable reason to bitch like crazy"

AMEN

aquapura...I am total agreement with you.

For those that are "untouched" by the current dire straits of economic downturn, ignorance is absolute bliss!!! Folks scoff at the notion of complaining - "COMPLAINTS?!?! WHAT'S SOOO BAD?!?!?" Yes folks, there are out-of-touch people, try not to punch them in the throat or strangle them with your bare hands, they are oblivious and some day, may fall into the economic "sinkhole" that we're all trying to get out of......

Back in 03 I was laid off, the firm I worked for at the time was just not multi-typed enough, aviation and telecom, circa 2000, meant a downward spiral around late 01. I found a fob in about two weeks - and could have had one sooner if it had not been late in the year.

The times are different this time around....I am now over two months out of a job, only had two interviews. I would have had two more, but work is "evaporating" due to funding that pulls a Houdini or maybe a Doug Henning? Besides the design arts (ya know what I'm talking about) I've known other fields hit by the economic downturn. One out of ten people? More like one out of five has been laid off and still looking.

Joben - getting an M.Arch is not a bad thing, if you have the means to gain it. I'm married with kids and the mere thought of me doing it, well it's not pratical for me. But having an M.Arch would not hurt you if you can swing it - you have two viable routes: the profession or academia to work in with an M.Arch degree under your belt. I'd love to teach at a university, but don't have the M.Arch - so this is a pipe dream for me.

Good luck to all, have patience and hope.