Early this morning, I was looking through last year's forum and noticed that it was launched a year ago today. It seemed from the general response that to consider it too early to start obsessing over the thoughtful/terrible advice and the stats of your peers (competitors) and what has become the ever-debated, mythic lore of the respective values of reccs, GPA and portfolios--was an exercise in self-delusion over just how soon December will be here.

I'm an M.Arch I applicant with an as yet non-existent portfolio, who hasn't taken the GRE yet.

I'm attending the summer studio at GSAPP.

Bon courage, comrades!

do your GREs, to get it out of the way

second that! GREs out of the way ASAP.

my words of logistical advice:

- figure out why you want to go the schools to which you will apply.
- understand the tools you will need to layout your portfolio.
- figure out how you print a portfolio waaaay in advance.
- fill out your scholarship forms.
- try not to be scared. be inspired.

this will make for a more informed, empowering, and de-stressed application process. you can make it a positive experience!

good luck!

find a print shop that has a high quality laser printer, one that prints without the waxy texture of Kinkos. print on double sided glossy cardstock full color, design with page bleeds, make it pleasing to look at. have them trim it and bind with a spiral. i tend to think that committees like simple design that shows your work more than your graphic design abilities (unless your work is graphic design of course).

take lots of practice tests, at least 4.
pay close f#@$ing attention to your application components, because they will be numerous and varied school to school.
if you have no arch background try to take an arch drawing and theory course now, if you can, or the prep courses mentioned above. they will help immensely. the theory course helped just as much as the drawing for me. and don't be discouraged with your lack of background. i've heard from several sources that liberal arts people are very desirable, and that MArch 1 is the better model anyway.

and for godsake, be patient--you have a year to wait. hahaha!

make sure you know the right deadlines for each school. i fucked up bad this time on my harvard app because i mixed it up with princeton's, which was the next day. i had to get a kinkos near harvard to print my portfolio and courier it there the same day. i had a rather unnerving phone call from kinkos asking me whether there was a mistake in my numbering because it looked like there were some pages were missing. i went through it with them and it sounded fine, but not actually seeing and checking the portfolio out in my own hands haunted me through the whole ordeal. not likely that this would have been the only factor in my rejection, but it certainly didn't help.

also, check whether schools need two sets of transcripts. when you order transcripts get 2-3 extra copies. i had to send 3 to different schools because they had either lost them or i only sent one instead of the two required.

if you have a 3 year non-u.s bachelors degree check whether the schools will accept it. i went though the whole process with ut austin and got a letter at the start of april telling me that my australian bachelors degree from a decent school was not equivalent to it's u.s counterpart.

i am so glad this is over for me.

Does anyone know of programs that are focused on architectural design but allow for significant exploration into urban planning and design?

Here's my 2 cents on lessons learned from a 2009 M.Arch applicant:

I agree that it is definitely NOT too early. Apply to NO more than 5 schools. You will be in way over your head if you apply to more and you are just throwing away money to Application, Transcript, and GRE fees. That is the lesson I learned. You must be able to find 4 or 5 schools, at the most, that cater to your design + academic desires for graduate study. Any more is just silly and shows that you might not know what the heck you want in a grad program. Pick carefully. If you have a poor GPA, an average portfolio, have recs that could have been written by your mother, and are from way out of state, don't apply to Yale.

Portfolio Portfolio Portfolio. InDesign. Definitely print early and go through a few trial runs. Make friends with the print shop, be nice, and pretend like you have no idea what is involved in printing (but don't be an idiot). They may feel bad for you and maybe cut you a few deals. Be the starving artist that you are.

Talk to as many people from the schools you want to attend as you can. Express your genuine interest in their program. Call them once a week with a different question, even if it seems like you are being annoying. You never know who is on the other end of the line and may have some say in your admission or rejection. Don't just be another applicant. Sell yourself!

Apply in-state, if you have the opportunity. Your education is what you make of it. GSD, GSAPP, Yale, Princeton are all great, but look at what you have near you geographically and weigh your options. It's going to be a great feeling coming out of school 20-30k in debt compared to those who are well over 100k in debt after grad school. And there is nothing wrong with state-school programs. Often, they have really good opportunities like Study-abroad and assistantships, etc, as well.

Stay inspired, be creative, and work hard. Good luck to the 2010'ers!

blackbook - to answer your question.....PENN

I was planning on applying for 2010, but when I went to NJIT (New Jersey Institute of Technology) they told me that I should just apply this year (have till June 5). I live in Princeton NJ, and was thinking about Princeton's program, but it is super theoretical, and I've lived this stuff for almost 20 years. So even though it sounds cool, I want something I can use quickly, so NJIT fits the bill.

I am running to put this together as I am a working designer right now (My Bachelors is Interior Design) but I have not done any hand drawing in over 10 years. My GRE's are great, my GPA was 3.9, so that's cool, I worked for 2 large architecture firms before I went solo for design and continue to work with some big names in NYC, so I think my references should be solid. My Portfolio consists of completed work, a few line sketches, etc. I know it should have more photography, and real art (oil, acrylic, charcoal, etc.) but I am way busy and have just today begun working with a local artist to create some work for my portfolio. I am not sure I can get everything ready by the deadline. should I just cash this in and go for next year? Sometimes I feel ill. BTW, I am 44 y.o. my daughter attends Smith College, and my son will graduate high school in 2010. (stop laughing!!!) I am the oldest architect student EVER! I just really, really want to finally become the thing I always wanted to be.

Someone talk me down.....

I would wait the extra year and give yourself as many options as possible. At this point in your life I would think that another year would be worth the opportunity to study at the program of your choice without deadlines negating fantastic programs like Princeton's.

As soon as this semesters finals are done in two weeks, I am going into full time application mode (amongst two summer research projects, of course) studying/taking GREs, portfolio construction, letter writing, and letter gathering. I will be around to contribute to the collective commiserating here, for sure!

Coming from a way-too-long 8-year Bachelors in Arts in Mathematics, with a Minor in Computer Science, applying for MArch 1 programs in-state, out of state, and one possibly abroad. It's going to be hard to bring the number of applications that I want to send out, down, considering I would like to include a couple schools I *know* I could get into as well as a few I would be seriously pumped to get into.

2010 march applications here I come!

I've been out of school since '07. Applied half-heartedly in '08, was rejected by 4 ivyish schools, and now I'm back at it. I'm very torn between many things...how much I really do want to go back to school (sometimes I really do, sometimes not), how much I want my future in architecture to be focused on professional practice or academia, how much money I want to spend, etc etc. I hear the advice about applying to only 5 schools, but in my eyes I'm having a very hard time picking out a handful of schools that specifically catch my eye. Its a bad combo of not having a clearly defined direction for my future studies, and the fact that most schools claim a desire for students to pursue their own ambitions...hmmm.

Well anyways, I'll probably apply to a handful of "top programs", mainly because I already did and I feel the reapplication process is easy. But then i'll also throw in some more non traditional top programs such as sci-arc (please spare me comments on my semantics; just using generalities here) . I'm terrified that my list is somewhere around 15 schools at this point.

looking forward to some commiserating

Oh God, here we go again.... I'm throwing my hat into the ring.

Schools I'm considering (and my likelihood of actually applying to them):

Harvard GSD (for certain)
University of Cincinnati (for certain)
Columbia University (probably)
City College of New York (probably)
Yale (probably)
Pratt (maybe)
U of Oregon (maybe)
UW Seattle (maybe)

As you can see, I've still got some decision-making to do, and my choices have as much to do with location as they do with the reputation and the program itself. Ideally, I'd like to get my M.Arch. in whatever region I decide to settle down in, but that's ultimately up to the admissions committees. This list will likely be in flux until I actually send out the applications.

My GRE's are done, thank God, and I attended the summer architecture studio at Columbia in 2007.

My GPA is solid overall... I started my undergrad in 1995, left for a few years, and I'm now finishing it up. My recent grades have pretty much been straight A's, but I got some shitty grades early in my academic career that weigh down my overall average.

I think I have some pretty solid recs lined up. My portfolio is still a work-in-progress, and I suspect I'll write my personal statements at 3AM the day before the application deadline.

I went through all of this in 2006-2007 and didn't get accepted at any of my choices... I still had a lot of work left to do on my undergrad degree then, and I was applying exclusively to top-tier programs. I like to think I'm somewhat wiser this time around.

LiG,
Other than a few details we're in very similar situations.

whats the deal with these summer programs? I have a bs arch and have been working in architecture for 2 years since graduating...does that mean such a program is not for someone like me?

LiG - cool, I didn't know you were apping to grad school this next year!

I'm having to think about all this stuff now as my third year draws to a close. I guess my first step is figuring out where I'd like to apply. So, I have a few questions for whatever kind souls would like to be of some help!

1. What graduate schools in Ohio have noteworthy programs, besides UC? (where I currently attend)

2. What are some solid west-coast school choices? I'm not very familiar with that area. (ex. UCLA, Sci-arc)

Anyways, here's what I've sort of mentally settled on for now.

Plausible List

University of Cincinnati
UCLA

Wish List

MIT
Sci-arc
Harvard

LiG, I'm not familiar with Oregon and UW in Seattle. What are their programs like? Are they expensive?

Thanks guys, looking forward to alot of commiseration!

Villan:

It certainly wouldn't hurt, but with a BS Arch already, it might be somewhat redundant. Your experience at any summer program will depend on what you decide to put into it (of course) and the quality of your studio critic. If your BA Arch degree and your subsequent work experience is largely of a pragmatic/technical nature, a summer program at a more theory-driven school like GSAPP might be a good way to round out your portfolio.

I was fortunate at GSAPP to have a great critic, and he taught the summer program as if he were teaching the first semester in an M.Arch. I program (albeit condensed into a six-week period). It was intense as hell, but I had a great time and created some pretty cool stuff. Several of my classmates got accepted into places like GSD, Yale, and Princeton the following year. My only regret is that I had to start working part-time about halfway through the program, and I wasn't able to put as much effort into my final project as I wanted.

I've made a point to stay in touch with my studio critic and keep him in the loop as far as my academic plans go, and he's offered to write a recommendation letter for me. As a bonus, he's now the director of one of the M.Arch. programs I plan to apply to... A little networking action never hurt anybody.

yeah I certainly have enough theoretical material to draw off of in my portfolio. it's the networking thing I'd love to get in on. unfortunately I suck when it comes to networking, ha

jk3hl:

1) Ohio State has a solid reputation as well. I think Miami University and Kent State may also have M.Arch. programs, but they don't seem to get mentioned here as often as UC and OSU.

2) From my decidedly East Coast perspective, UCLA and Sci-Arc seem to be the biggest names out west... UC Berkeley and the University of Oregon also have decent reps, with more of a focus on green design. Others might be able to chime in with a more complete picture of these programs.

Nobody is worse than schmoozing as I am... More than once in my life, pure dumb luck has made up for my lack of social skills.

jk,
I went to osu's arch school as an undergrad. Solid program, great profs, great facilities. It gets a bad rep as a school in general, but the arch program is a different, and I feel much higher quality, animal.

"but they don't seem to get mentioned here as often as UC and OSU."

Where's here? Do you live/work in NYC?

UC Berkeley and the University of Oregon also have decent reps, with more of a focus on green design.

Ok yea, this makes sense - I've heard these names thrown out quite a bit.

That's great, Villan. How'd you like the building/studios? Seemed like a pretty cool environment when I visited, albeit alot different than UC. They're definitely going on my plausible list.

I guess the question I have to wrestle with now is whether I want to 'pay for the name' and apply to those ivy-leagues, or make the most of an [i]affordable[i/] education somewhere.

LiG - you seem to be the networking queen. What do you think? Do you feel the networking opportunities at Harvard/Columbia/Pratt etc. will be worth the cash?

Yeah its definitely different than UC...more of a focus on theory/history and less on professional practice. For me that was ok because I was able to switch over to "professional mode" after a heavy dose of just thinking about floating glass boxes for 4 years, but some might feel cheated with that kind of education, who knows.

The scogin building was great, it was so complex that I was able to think about it CONSTANTLY, and from that perspective (an architectural text), it was successful. Plus, if you avoid high street at 17th you'll NEVER have to see an Eisenman building on campus.

While I'll concede that what I guess what we could call the "brand recognition" of an ivy or highly reputable school gets played for way more than its worth--there seems to be a PC backlash on these message boards in the form of the assumption that "networking" is the only way that these programs may be superior to those at other schools.

This seems intrinsically flawed to me, just in considering how networking stems from a school's faculty and there must be value in studying under/with prominent architects other than a name drop or a reference. It isn't an MBA--we aren't going to job/client interviews disguised as classrooms--we're there to learn the most mind-blowing, of-the-moment, forward looking, perspective shifting concepts from the most brilliant minds we can get our hands on, right?

There will always be obnoxious arrogant people who will ignorantly make their choices, and inform their decisions on brand names, but that doesn't mean that the rest of us should feel the need to pretend that schools are created equal just like we pretend that people are.

Sorry... "Here" is Archinect.

Yeah, I currently live/work in NYC.

As for networking being worth the cost, that always seems to be the million-dollar question, and it's something I struggle with as well. Although I plan to apply to some expensive schools, I'm not sure I'd actually enroll at one unless they were willing to offer me a pretty substantial scholarship package.

Back in 2007 I would have been happy to take on $100k in student loan debt to attend Cornell or GSD, but the collapse of the economy has forced me to re-think my priorities. Hence, the reason for having a few more state schools on my list this time around.

One of the things that makes UC stand out for me (aside from the fact that I grew up in the Cincinnati area and still have a lot of friends and family there) is the co-op program, which offers networking opportunities that rival or surpass any Ivy League school. Combined with the fact that UC students are eligible to apply for in-state tuition after their first year and Cincy's dirt-cheap cost of living, UC is by far my best value.

Most of the NYC schools actually share a lot of faculty members, so even if I went to City College (where I'd be paying peanuts for in-state tuition), there's a good chance I'd be studying with faculty who also teach at GSAPP and/or Pratt. That said, I did some math a few months ago and discovered that UC is still cheaper for me than CCNY over the long run when I factor in the cost of living difference.

Blackbook - good point, and I suppose my comment earlier pretty much sums up alot of the thinking in archinect, as my pliable, impressionable young mind has soaked up much of what's said.

I don't know, maybe it's just an issue of differing mentalities. I tend to think of my situation and prospects very pragmatically. In other words, I view grad school as a means to an end (a reputable, glamorous job somewhere). Maybe that's why I'm examining this choice from a 'networking/connections' point of view?

I don't know. I wish I was more enamoured with the nobility of design, yada yada. I have a few studio mates who really go out of their way to be like this, and they rub me the wrong way. Ok, reeling this tangent back in...

Blackbook, I think you're right. But the networking/connections part is more important to me than a mind-blowing, forward-looking education. Do you hate me for that? =(

Not at all... I didn't mean to express a singular goal in higher education--nor to assign value judgments on various perspectives--just to suggest that there appears to be a contrived "every school is above average" mentality that ignores the educational experience and environment almost altogether.

I have a similar dilemma regarding the theoretical/practical focus of a program.... I tend to be a very linear thinker, and while I'm an extremely visual person with a pretty good design intuition, I find that most abstract writing and heavy theory gives me a splitting headache and causes me to lose interest. I'm far more interested in creating a solid, well-crafted design than in trying to become the next Peter Eisenman. My bosses at work usually like me because of this, but studio critics sometimes want to strangle me.

There's two ways I can deal with this issue: I can go with the flow and pick a practice-oriented program like UC that seems to mesh well with my strengths, or pick a more avant-garde theoretical program like GSAPP to help bolster my weaknesses. I'm all about expanding my horizons and learning to think in new ways, but at the same time I don't want to spend 3+ years banging my head against a wall. I'm wondering if anybody else is facing this dilemma?

LiG - we could go to UC together!

Although word on the street has it they're really boosting their expectations and lowering their admission numbers for the next year. Or maybe that was this year. I don't know, I've just heard people in my studio talking about it a lot.

Wouldn't surprise me if most schools are tightening up on admissions in a big way... I suspect 2010 will see a deluge of laid-off architects taking advantage of the down economy to head back to school. Meanwhile, schools are cutting budgets and possibly slashing incoming class sizes. I think this economy has become a perfect storm for architects no matter where they are in their educational/career track.

Finally this thread is serving its intended dual purpose of support + terror.

Doesn't support + terror pretty much describe architecture school in general? Think of this thread as an appetizer before the main course.

I then once you enter the architectural profession drop 'support' from that and just call it terror.

on a side note, any applicants in the process of buying a new computer/software(such as rhino/adobe/etc) to help you in making a portfolio? I didnt really want to go this route but I think I have no other choice. The software is whats going to kill me. It seems a shame that, even though i'm not a student, I will be paying non student prices on software producing, basically, academic stuff.

AND then once you enter the architectural profession drop 'support' from that and just call it terror.

The software is whats going to kill me. It seems a shame that, even though i'm not a student, I will be paying non student prices on software producing, basically, academic stuff.

You should email me about this, I might have some tips.

james.kehl@gmail.com

I'm lucky enough to have a pretty good computer at work with all the apps I need for my portfolio.

My 5-year-old home computer is showing its age in a bad way... I'm hoping I can nurse it along until I'm ready to buy a new machine for grad school, but I'm not very hopeful about that.

yeah I have a pretty sweet setup at work too, I just know Im not going to want to spend more time at a place I'm at 60 hours a week working on my portfolio

few questions for a potential 2010....


whats a decent GPA?

Any tips on portfolio from someone without any previous arch experience?

Could you defer admisison live in a state or a year then get in-state?
I know this unlikely, already in debt with a B.S. in Environmental Science and want to save wherever possible.
Thanks,
good to discuss with fellow potentials

Blackbook,

I applied to MArch programs this year wanting the same thing: a strong architecture program that had significant opportunities to interface with urban design and planning.

After a ton of research, school visits and conversations with students, I eventually applied to MIT, UC Berkeley, and the GSD; I will be attending Berkeley in the fall. In my opinion, these 3 programs are in a different league than the rest in terms of cooperation between the schools.

The main thing to keep an eye out for is the nature of the relationship between the Arch and Planning depts. There aren't too many schools which are really top-tier for both, and even fewer where the faculty and students get along/collaborate.

Frankly, I think that MIT is the strongest in this area hands down. Cross-discipline collaboration is totally the name of the game over there: 3rd year studios frequently include grad students from 3 or more degree programs, including engineering, computing, etc. And they have some great urban research units over there as well.

That said, the GSD and Berkeley both have their own strengths, and faculty that are at the leading edge. Just a question of what you specifically are interested in within the huge "field" of urban design.

Could you defer admisison live in a state or a year then get in-state?

I don't think so - but I'm curious to know if this is possible.

If the school allows you to gain residency while you're a student, there's no reason that this wouldn't work. That said, it seems like a lot of grad programs don't give deferments.

For good reason. While I sympathize with your financial situation, this method seems a little selfish and cowardly--if you need in-state and feel you can be accepted and work in the state of your choosing--move, establish residency and then apply.

Living in Gin, I thought you applied for this fall as well. 2009. or am I mistaken

No... I was thinking about it, but decided to take another year to wrap up my BA degree at an easier pace and get my finances in better shape.

blackbook-

selfish-maybe, cowardly- i dont think so. I have worked/lived in 5 different states in the last 5 years, so the idea of investing in A state then coming across benefits such as "in-state tuition" I don't feel really applys to my situation nor do I consider myslef to have any loyalty to just one state.

As far as I know, relatively few M.Arch. programs allow you to defer enrollment. Even if they do, most schools make their residency determination at the time of admission, not at enrollment... This is mainly to prevent people from doing what you're asking about. To get in-state tuition, you pretty much have three options:

1) Apply to a public school in whatever state you currently live in (assuming you've been there for at least a year and can prove it).

2) Move to a state and live there for a year and then apply, as blackbook suggests. Finding work in the meantime will be difficult in this economy, though.

3) Apply to schools in states that allow you to apply for in-state residency after your first year. I think Ohio and California allow this, and there may be others. You'll have to check with the specific schools for details, though, and there may be certain procedures you need to follow.

(As a side note, the University of Cincinnati offers a "metro" tuition rate to residents of certain counties of Northern Kentucky, and this tuition rate is only slightly higher than the in-state tuition for Ohio residents.)

Also, keep in mind that many schools (public and private) have endowments that allow them to offer generous scholarship awards to incoming students. If you're an exceptional candidate, a school may offer you a free ride or at least a decent scholarship even if you're coming in from out of state. But you won't know until you actually apply and get an offer.

thanks for the info L.I.G.

Hi! My guestion is - what's the average age of people who apply to MARCH programms in US?
I'm currently a third year architecture student in Moscow and I'm thinking about applying for a 2010 MARCH programm in US - I'll be 20 years old at that time and I'm afraid I'll be the youngest and the most unexperienced ( if i manage to enter any MARCH programm at all)? I was thinking about graduating at home at first ( I'll be 22 at that time) and then apply for a US MARCH programm, but my family thinks I have to do GRE,TOEFL, prepare my portfolio and apply as soon as possible...
By the way, do you know, in general, what chances do foreigners have in this applying process? May be I should better try to transfer to a BARCH 4th or 5th year ( which I don't want very much)?
One more question - What is GPA?
And, sorry, for being such a nerd - the last guestion - what software is a MARCH aplliciant suppose to know? I know AutoCAD, ArchiCAD, 3dsmax ( not a pro though), Sketch up, render Artlantis, Photoshop.
Thanx a lot and sorry for grammar mistakes if you notice any))

any potential UVA's ???

as far as defer for in-state (or defer in general). these are the schools at which i know you can do it:

NC State - I'm doing it right now...
Virginia Tech - my friend goes there, looked at that option, but ultimately decided against it.
Pratt - ha. no in-state discount there tho.

don't know about any others, but thought i'd throw that out there.
throw north carolina schools as well as virginia tech on the list of residency after 1 yr of school.

best of luck to all of those applying!

When's the best time to take my GRE? In spring or christmas break of my fourth year?

Hi All -

I'm throwing my hat in as another 2010 applicant.

Quick Facts:
Currently living in NYC
Originally from Denver (still my permanent address)
Undergrad in design from U. of Notre Dame
Have been working as a graphic designer for 5 years
Looking at applying to Columbia, Berkeley, ASU, CU Denver

A Few Q's:
1. I saw that Arizona State University has a program where you can get your MBA and MARCH in 3 years. Any thoughts on this program?

2. University of Colorado at Denver is my home-state option. Any thoughts on this program?

I'll be in the GSAPP summer program, so look forward to meeting those of you who will be in NYC this summer....

Gin: "Back in 2007 I would have been happy to take on $100k in student loan debt to attend Cornell or GSD, but the collapse of the economy has forced me to re-think my priorities. Hence, the reason for having a few more state schools on my list this time around."

Ditto that. Aww, maybe I'm growing up. I'm starting to realize there's no such thing as job stability no matter your credentials. Even a couple of years ago there was probably nothing anyone could have said to deter me from wanting to apply to all the $$$$ schools.

I will likely be applying for 2010 as well.

My stats:

Will finish my B.A. in Urban Planning at Cal State Northridge Fall 2009
Currently interning in Design Management at a big public entity
Just became a LEED AP
Going to do Jump Start Intro to Arch @ UCLA this summer
No portfolio yet, but will be developing this summer and onward

Thinking about applying to UC Berkeley (in state = cheap, seemingly awesome program and focus on sustainability... going to visit the school soon), UPenn (seems to have a heavy focus on urban planning, which is my background), Columbia (location, association with the Earth Institute)

Hey, so I need some advice on letters of recommendation...

I know that fall quarter I'll be absolutely slammed with work, and combining that with applying to grad schools will make it a tough few months, so should I be collecting my letters of recommendation this summer? Or even right now?

I haven't gone through this process before, so correct me if I'm wrong, but... I'll need 3 letters of rec, right?

And, when I ask 'Mr. White' for a recommendation, I'll need to tell him what schools exactly I'm applying to, so he can address each one of them in different letters? Isn't it easier just to get a generic letter and re-address or slightly modify the letter to match the school? If I have to do it the former way then I'll need to make up my mind about grad schools real soon, then.

Also, are the people reviewing the apps looking for recs from academia? Do they put less stock in letters from professionals? I've been at co-op half of my undergrad, and subsequently have developed more relationships on that side of the fence.

Would a really well-written, eloquent, and thoughtful request for rec's via email be more appropriate than a phone call when I ask my professors? (since I'm on co-op and will soon be abroad) Getting them on the phone is hard enough!

I guess I'm slightly anxious about the whole thing - it's not like I have terribly close-knit relationships with my past professors. Has anyone actually refused to write a letter of rec for you, before? Or would they just ask you to write it yourself, and then sign it.

P.S. When's the ideal time to take your GRE's? How long did you study for it? Can you recommend any good study material/guide?

Concerning the Letter of recommendation:

If I ask this fall's profs for recs, they will have only known me for 2 months or so. If I ask profs last semester, they may have forgotten me. What do I do?

^ yeeaaap.

In general I think you want to get L.O.R. from people that wont forget you in one semester's time.

I have the issue of having to ask professors I haven't worked with in 3 or 4 years. Does anyone have any experience with this? I'm not too concerned because we had good working relationships in schools, I'm just concerned with: "hey, I know we haven't talked in a few years, but do you mind writing me 10 recommendations?"

also, I might have to ask a boss who doesn't know im going to grad school for one. tough thing to think about doing in this economy.

Hrmm, any seasoned graduates have input on our dilemmas?

jk3hl...

I will attempt to answer your questions based on my experience apply to m.arch progs two years ago:

-yes, get LORs lined up asap
-yes, 3 per school
-tailor each letter to each school. at least mention their name.
-they prefer at least one from professional, and I dont think they put any less stock in them
-I emailed all my recommenders last time
-I've never had experience with either of your two concerns...and I've asked some pretty brash/egotistical people

Do rec's have to mail their letters directly to the university admissions office? I collect and submit them myself, correct?

Its a mixed bag of: them sending it directly, them sending it to you to send, or them submitting electronically through the schools application website

Then I shouldn't solicit anyone for rec's until a few weeks before admission opens?

Well at least talking to your recommenders once you get an idea of what you're going to do isn't a bad idea, so they're not completely surprised. But yeah, don't get into sending actual recs until you have the admin stuff rolling on your apps.

This is a lazy question, but when typically do MArch programs open for admission?

Usually around the start of the fall semester or quarter, in my experience. Check the school's website to be certain.

Not looking forward to starting my physics and math pre-req's.

It has been far too many years since I even remotely pondered such subjects in an academic setting.

If you became really enamoured with a design competition and participated on your own initiative, but couldn't register because of an exorbitant registration fee - is it unethical to include the work in a portfolio labelled as "design work done for such-and-such competition?"

Would you just say the project was self-initiated? Would graduate school jurors be turned off by the fact I've done the work outside of school?

I'd think that any design work you do just for shits and giggles -- outside of school or the office -- would be seen as a positive, not a negative. The projects in my portfolio that seemed to get the most positive reactions were the ones I did purely as personal projects.

i think you're fine. Your design was based on a speculative competition, and thus owes itself to that competition, regardless if you entered it or not.

dont say it's self-initiated, because thats more of a lie than your original concern. I dont think any grad program advisor would be turned off by work outside of school just because its outside of school.

these stats nearly made me crap my pants:

link

any thoughts on the number of applicants this next go around? will it be the same, less, or will people still be freaked out by the economy and flock to graduate programs in droves?

vilan what does this datum reflect?

oh sorry...its Princeton's graduate admissions statistics for the last five cycles. If you scroll to the second page, at the top, there's the school of architecture. Just looking at the overall trends, this looks like a pretty depressing time to be applying to m.arch

@villain: that's been my concern too. i'm pretty sure the trend will be similar for all schools right now. instead of being freaked out about not getting in anywhere, maybe we can be all positive about it. look at it as a chance to challenge ourselves/step it up even more than we otherwise may have (not saying we all slacked off before, but hopefully you know what i mean).

my priority for admission is my portfolio because i think i have the academic/professional side well covered. i have been out of practice with my drawing and art for a while because i've been so focused on academic versus creative work. i think i'm going to start taking drawing and painting classes in my community to get the juices flowing again.

shit.

Oh just to give some advice that I was given about LOR's. Someone suggested that applicants should always get one more than the required amount. If they ask for 3 LOR, they will never question 4 but will think twice about accepting you if only two show up at the office. I had asked 4 professors to write me letters, based on the advice given to me. Of course, one of my professors didn't send the letter in, even after I emailed that prof. 4 times and sent a personally letter to his house. So, in the end your professors are busy people and sometimes will forget... so play it safe and have all your bases covered. Good luck everyone!

Hey, I noticed a lot of schools (UCLA, GSD, etc.) offer two MArch programs, one being for undergrads with non-architectural degrees, and the other for undergrads with a "5-year bachelor degree in Architecture or it's equivalent."

By equivalent, does that include a degree like the University of Cincinnati (where I attend?) It's a 4 year Bachelor of Science degree in Architecture. Am I totally excluded from schools like the above, or what?

Your degree ( I should say 'ours' because I have it also), does not qualify for this program. "5-year bachelor degree in Architecture or it's equivalent" is a five year, B.Arch, PROFESSIONAL degree. our degree is PRE-professional, and requires at least a portion of the M.arch to make it professional.

no, you're not excluded from the school, we just, technically, need to enroll in the M.arch 1 path (which is for non-arch backgrounds), with the HOPE that we can be pardoned from a year or more of it for our experience.

You're not excluded from applying to any school you wish, but the particular M.Arch. program you're eligible to apply for will depend on your undergraduate degree.

If you have a non-architecture degree, you'll apply to a first-professional M.Arch. program, which will typically be 3 to 3.5 years in length.

If you have a pre-professional BA or BS degree in architecture, you'll apply to the same first-professional M.Arch. program as above, but you may be able to skip the first year or opt out of certain course requirements. Any advanced standing will be granted at the discretion of the program you're applying to, and some are more strict than others.

For those who already have a 5-year professional B.Arch. degree or equivalent* the post-professional M.Arch. degree offers a way to study architecture at an advanced level or to focus on a particular area of interest. This program will typically be 1.5 to 2 years in length.

Keep in mind that most universities will name their various M.Arch. degree tracks as M.Arch. I, M.Arch. II, and M.Arch. III. However, there doesn't seem to be a universal standard among universities about which designation applies to which degree track. For most schools, the M.Arch. I is the first-professional degree, but I've also seen one or two schools use that designation for their post-professional degree. You'll have to read the descriptions from the specific schools you're applying to. Something called an M.Arch. II at one school might be the same program as something called an M.Arch. III at another school.

* The "equivalent would most likely be from an overseas university, since there really is no "equivalent" in the US. You either have a professional B.Arch. degree or you don't.

Ohhh. Okay, thanks guys.

Damn, that sucks though. On the other hand, would my portfolio and application be judged in the bracket with other non-architecture/design undergrads? Does this give me a better chance of acceptance, in a way?

Probably depends on the school. Some may lump all the applications in together, while others may create a separate applicant pool for those with pre-professional degrees. Almost every school will want a healthy mix of people from various architectural and non-architectural backgrounds.

jk: i'm assuming since there are 3 tracks, each portfolio would only be evaluated according to the specific track they are applying for, not that all applicants to the entire architecture school would be pooled together. only seems logical since they're all coming in with totally different skill sets/levels.

anyone who knows for certain, is this correct?

The post-professional M.Arch. applicants would be a different pool altogether. Some schools may combine the non-architecture and pre-professional candidates into a single pool, though.

Here's a question:

Next month I'll be back home in Cincinnati for a week to visit family, do some research for my undergrad thesis, and basically hang around town for a bit. By coincidence, the week I'll be in town also happens to be the first week of UC's summer quarter. If all works out the way I'm hoping, I'll be starting my M.Arch. degree at DAAP exactly that time next year.

I've already spent plenty of time wandering around the UC campus and I did the whole DAAP open house and tour thing last fall, but I'd love to sit in on the very first session of the M.Arch. studio, just to get a feel for what to expect on Day One. Does anybody think this would be permitted, or does this sound like a really dumb idea?

A few questions, two of which were asked in another thread and overlooked for at least a week.

Anyone think it would be a good idea (or want to join me, perhaps) in starting a blog to document the application process to Architectural Graduate programs?
Any reason to think such a blog, found by admissions admins, would negatively (or possibly positively) effect my chances at admission into any schools? I just think it would make for a fun and interesting year long blog piece.

Two questions asked elsewhere to no avail...
Is there any reason anyone with an MArch from a european school wouldn't be able to attend an MArch III program somewhere here in the states, to get an accredited degree? The only reason I can see why this would be difficult is academic resistance to admitting anyone for a second Masters, even if for one year.

Applying to architecture schools with a pre-professional non-architectural degree I have been wondering, are there any European analogs to the American 3-year MArch 1 program? I am putting together a list of graduate programs to apply to for Fall '10 and I would love to put a couple european schools on that list, but I am going into this with a BA in Mathematics, although along with 6 years of work experience in architecture.

I'd love a solid, knowledgeable answer, I've been wondering for some time.

Rascuache - you don't have a background in architecture. Almost no European school has a master degree for students with a non-arch background - as such you would most likely have to start over from the beginning in Europe.

I'm a graphic designer in NYC planning on applying for M.Arch I programs. I went to Brown University and majored in art and critical theory; graduated 5 years ago. Good GPA. My portfolio will be pretty much all graphic design work--books, ephemera and environmental graphics. I also am a painter and have been consistently producing work and getting fellowships/residencies over the years. I don't think I'll have time/means to do a summer program. Is it alright not to have any architectural design in portfolio? Haven't taken GRE yet. I really need to study and relearn the little math I once knew.

My wish list so far:

Princeton
Yale
UVa
Penn

I'd like to stay on east coast, but am also looking into ASU (I'm originally from Phoenix), UCLA and UW.

I'm pretty comfortable with theory and would like to have exposure to urban design. Does anyone know anything about RISD or Maryland? Or any other programs to look into???

Annagraph -

As long as you're applying for the 3 year M.Arch programs, there's no need/expectation for you to have architectural design in your portfolio. I was admitted to Berkeley based on a portfolio that was entirely photography/writing (my background), and I have two very close friends that are at Columbia right now who also didn't include any arch stuff in their portfolios.

I think the general wisdom is to show your strengths, whatever those may be, and to keep in mind how to demonstrate a strong visual and spatial intelligence with the materials you're presenting.

Lastly, if you're interested in urban design, I would seriously consider adding MIT, Berkeley and Harvard to your list. In my opinion, they're the three schools that integrate the MArch, LArch and Planning students most functionally, and that produce the most interesting research/projects in the field of urban design. Penn also does a pretty good job with this, and has an outstanding LArch program to draw on.

Some of the other schools on your list have a reputation for being pretty traditional (though awesome), which might mean less opportunity to explore questions/problems in urban design.

njohn,

Im curious, which schools on AG's list do you consider traditional? Because i might be applying to similar schools and the only that I'm aware of as "traditional" is UM. Maybe UVA would be?

How about U of Wash? Im interested in applying there, but admittedly do not know that much about their program.

The only reason I have been leaving Berkeley off my list is that I heard that although they have great programs in Arch, Landscape and Planning, the depts are not that cooperative. Is that not entirely true?

Do UVa, UW, or ASU have any street cred?

I'm trying to compile a list of grad programs that aren't outrageously expensive (ivies) but still have really good national, or at least regional, reputations. Anyone have suggestions?

I guess "traditional" might be a slightly misleading word. I was speaking in the context of urban design, and using "traditional" to refer to programs focused on a rigorous exploration of architecture, but with somewhat less consideration for the related disciplines/questions that come into play in urban design. This is certainly not to say that they're not producing interesting and inventive work.

Based on my own extensive research/visits, and the experiences of several friends, I would say there's a real split within schools that on the leading edge over whether/how much to integrate the other urban disciplines. Some schools are devoting a lot of resources to an effort to integrate, others seem to be focused on pushing the envelope within a more "traditional" conception of architectural study and research.

Harvard, MIT and Berkeley are the programs that I think have most successfully diversified their curriculum, specifically by offering 3rd year studios that draw students from multiple tracks, and hiring professors who are on more than one faculty and teach a broad perspective.

No value judgments attached, but definitely something to think about if you're interested in urban design. Afraid I didn't look into UWash during my application process, but I've heard their name come up a bunch on the forum, so I'm sure there's good info kicking around in here.

Im also looking for schools like that JK. So far i've come up with UW, UCLA, CAL, ut, and a few others. I've left some out just because of personal biases/location, but there's plenty out there.

Yes, interesting point john. Would you add Penn to that list of schools which diversify in terms of interdisciplinary work? It seems to me that they do, and a big reason im drawn to their program.

Annagraph, I went and visited Cal, talked to some students and met with some professors that I know through work and some others whose work I admire. The general consensus is that they're moving in a more cooperative direction, and that the crossover experience is there if you seek it out.

One important thing for me is the urban design curriculum and studios, which are accessible to 3rd year students from the various disciplines. Another is that a number of the professors are on more than one faculty (Arch, Landscape, Planning, or Urban Design). Also, the various students share the same building and facilities, if not always the same studio space (they're split up onto 5 or 6 floors). They also have a handful of students at any given time who are doing dual degrees with 2 of the 3 programs. All of this signals a level of integration/cooperation, in my mind. And the crossover was the most important criteria for me in making my decision, so I looked at it pretty hard.

All of that said, MIT is way further along in bringing everyone together, and Harvard's system of shared studio space is incredible and seems to have the desired effect of putting everyone into constant contact with everyone else's work.

If you want to send me an email, I'll be happy to report back this fall and let you know how the level of cooperation looks from the inside.

TheVillain,

I would definitely add Penn to that list. They have great programs in all 3 disciplines, and I had a summer employee last year who was in her 2nd year of the Landscape program who was loving it. She was definitely aiming for urban design as her end goal, and said that the cooperation between the programs was good.

I didn't have a chance to visit, though, so I can't really speak to what other students think, or how their studio space is set up...

Thanks for the info. I'm also definitely interested in a program that heavily integrates planning/urban design into their curriculum since I'm doing my undergrad in urban planning.

Harvard is probably the holy grail school I'm going to be applying to (or maybe Columbia. How interdisciplinary is their program?) Berkeley is a top choice of mine (cheap since I'm in state and has an amazing program. Jennifer Wolch, their new dean, kicks ass.) Penn is another college I'm really looking at... do you know of any down or upsides to Penn vs. Berkeley?

Echoing what jk3hl asked... any other programs that are not so expensive that have this emphasis?

Throwing in my last 2 cents, and then I must get to work and stop hanging out on the forums.

I have two close friends who are/were in the Columbia MArch program (1 just finished 1st year, 1 just graduated), and they both said in no uncertain terms that the Arch students and the Planning students never talk, much less work together. This was corroborated by an MUP student who did an internship at the organization I work for, who said that the two groups never come into much contact except at the end-of-year show.

All together, it would appear that the planning and architecture departments are somewhere between total disinterest in one another, and being openly antagonistic. Sad, because I would have loved to go to Columbia and not have to leave NYC...

I think I read somewhere on these boards that Berkeley has a great undergrad program, but a lacklustre graduate school... was that a complete crackpot's comment, or does anyone agree?

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

I'd love to hear more about what people think of Princeton. My girlfriend is studying in another dept there so I've been able to visit and go to a few visiting lectures. I also get just a generally good feeling--work is rigorous but students seem pretty well taken care of. I know it's reputation is really history/theory heavy, but does anyone know anything else about its rep? Besides being seemingly impossible to get into.

I've heard awesome things about UVA from students there--great collaboration and studio life. And of course there landscape program is also top-notch.

My list seems to be growing and growing. Applications are going to be overwhelming, which is an understatement.

Princeton is the school at the top of my list too...I visited last year, and just has an amazing feel and seems like a great fit for me. However, they accepted 6% last year. Its almost not worth it to apply there.

Villain: I think we all should apply to one school we think might be out of reach. We honestly never know what they are looking for. Think of it this way also: The same as we want an amazing school to go to, it's their job to provide an amazing place for us to learn so they have to choose applicants who will get the most out of their program. Make a great case for how you would totally soak up all that they have to offer & contribute to their school. If it's your dream school, just apply, cuz what if you do get in?