LAYOFFS.....

Has anyone heard of layoffs yet, or been laid off?

I just heard that BBG in New York just laid off 20 people...

I've heard of spot-layoffs here and there, just wondered about the larger picture.

i heard DEGW in NY is making some cuts,

i'm in SF, not too much here, knock on wood

There are layoffs going on everywhere.

My firm has had 2 rounds of layoffs and I'm sure the third is right around the corner. Other major firms in my city have had similar situations or have hiring freezes. I won't name names obviously.

at least you can collect un-employment.....

cryzko, definitely not a guarantee.

3 out of 11 are gone here

20 (of maybe 120 or so) just let go in the office I used to work for in Milwaukee.

Layoffs in Denver I have heard of:

4240
Davis Partnership
klipp
OZ
RNL

Almost zero firms hiring. Many highly qualified candidates competing for the few available positions. Lots of projects under construction but very little backlog at architecture firms.

My old firm in the Midwest laid off about 20% of its workforce this year. Another friend lost her job recently in Cincinnati, with a slew of coworkers. Meanwhile here in LA, several friends who recently graduated are having a terrible time finding jobs.

NBBJ Seattle has laid folks off.

It was probably linked from the news section, predictions for NY of a drop in employment in construction from 130,000 to 100,000 by 2010. That's 1 in 4 will go.

I'm a recent grad, currently job-hunting in LA and the other day called 12 firms of various sizes and caliber - no one is hiring, and one told me they had just had a big lay-off.

I am also a recent graduate and hate the fact that i graduated this year...... but finally after 3 months of job hunting, i was fortunate enough to find a job last week. sigh....

A buddy of mine was hired at a residential/multi family specialty firm in the begining of the summer after he graduated and was laid off only 5 months later...

He's still looking for a job.

::I my best redneck voice::

FOUR MORE YEARS!!!!!! WOOHOO!!!!!!!!!

For the recend grads, I feel for you guys. I was told horror stories about the crash of 1991 where profession almost became extinct. Basically so few people coming out of school were hired by architecture firms, that they had to make career changes. It is said that the profession is still reeling from that to this day and is very visibly missing an entire generation of architects.

Not sure about some of you guys but in my office the gap is very obvious -- It's people that are around my age (late 20s) or younger and then people who are in their 50s or older.

I don't think things will get as ugly as 1991 because the dynamic has changed tremendously since then. There are other disciplines that tend to do a lot better in different economic scenarios. Right now higher education, senior living, k-12, science/tech, adaptive reuse, historic preservation, and institutional are doing extremely well.

There are firms still hiring. If some of you guys who are still looking are interested in the DC area, I know of places who are looking. Just drop me a private email.

Good Luck!

true about '91. that was me. for a couple of years i sold cookies in a mall, records in a mall, and books - in a mall. by '93, though, i got a job in an architecture office. if any of you end up in a bind, just take anything and go from there. it can work out ok.

i have decided that if the worst happens i will work as hard as ever doing whatever, if that means two jobs, if that means becoming a migrant architect, i will do whatever it takes. i thank my mom for that. i worry about the architects or should i say interns, with families, it will be tough for them.

I feel like the reason I'm not sweating my job too much (besides for the fact that I don't like it) is that I'm one of the lowest paid people there doing things that either a PA or a PM do plus production.

I feel like in this profession, you have to put in 100% and then go the extra 10 miles. That's been my mantra and this is what has kept me out of trouble and this what has kept my anual reviews consistently in positive territory. And at the same time I know that I am just as expendable as all the people before me who got laid off.

It's a tough one and not for the faint of heart. I was told from the begining that if you are looking for job stability and security, this isn't the right profession.

what happened to steven in 91 happened before in 81. i have been around that time as a new graduate.a lot of my classmates dropped out the scene. i worked but i didn't really like the projects. me and few friends formed a group and started to write articles and tried to start an opposition. it worked to a degree. group became popular and most of people start to come to meetings were art students.
i'd suggest stay in architecture as long as you can eat. that means other jobs etc. try to do other things related to your field. organize neighborhood groups, create lectures for your community about built environment. you can coordinate these with bigger organizations like aia, city or schools.
i feel worst for the people who have started their careers. newly graduated ones can still stay with their parents and take menial jobs as construction workers (i did) and other less than ideal jobs. but people who are in architecture already are the ones who will get hurt for the most. because at their level, once you take a long break, it is very hard to come back to it with technology changed and different ways of doing architecture in place. yes, things happen fast in this profession.
many people will take few remaining jobs in architecture that will make them forget everything they have learned and do title blocks and other less than their heroic education promised them.
never lose your focus. it will get better. many extras will disappear forever. many people you talk about now, will never be heard from, but stay focused and stay in architecture.

also,

some of you sometimes will regard to people older than you as old, dinosaur, yesterday etc.., although, understandably mixed with the youthful energy and with lack of experience.
each time you see an older person still punching the hours and telling you to revise the drawing, idea, presentation etc., they have the experience and wintered several of these meltdowns and still managed to stay in the field and very much into it.
think of that, where you would be in thirty years and how you will be regarded by young professionals who want to get you out of there and showing you an old trick of a shape, and, telling you this is the 'new' thing. then you ask, "let's see how long he is going to hold on to it?"

these are also good times to evaluate many things, study (doesn't have to be with a school,) involve, commit, develop that project you have been talking about...

don't let getting fired finish all your goals and ideas, if in fact if you let go.

i'm thinking about going to trade school......

seems like theres toooooo many factors in the field to even compete...i.e. knowing lot of programs/working at other firms/etc...

for those that have kids..... that's going to be hard.....good luck with that

Orhan, sage advice there my friend, and things i am concerned about as well. i think the thing that may help though is to not get to leveraged in one specific area or niche of the profession. while technology will change, the creative impulses tend to be cyclical in nature and tend to jump along popular trends. hejduk, pichler, lebbeus seemed to find their way fine, in any market condition. in fact they seem to operate outside market conditions. i still love reading that hejduk's imprint is all over the NJ turnpike or at least that is what he worked on at one point in his life. the other thing to keep in your pocket is the idea that times like these bring out the absolute best of all of us, the depression should be a model for all creative types on how to survive.

"i think the thing that may help though is to not get to leveraged in one specific area or niche of the profession"

that doesn't work..... been doing that for 8 years........ and been trying to get in a firm for the past 4 years....... but hey, to each their own.....

so, cryz, you think all those in 1970's passive solar crowd did well by being leveraged in one specific niche market?

i think leed is going to change, i think there will be leed specialists and the leed thing will move beyond the profession's desire to keep pace. i think it'll become more important to be ethical than becoming a specialist. locking into one area of this game is wrong for all concerned.

unfortunately, i am also a recent graduate, have to find a job in the end of this year.

email with myy VC, cover letter, decent portfolio, to around 40 firms in NYC, 10 firms in Boston, 25 firms in LA, 15 firms in SF, 25 firms other states. and I end up with almost nothing. all replies are no hiring. and they hate calling.

hardcopies to 10 firms, no reponses yet.

on August 2008, i still find it is highly potential to locate an ideal job in good area. now architecture business finally get influnced in almost 1 month.

do not know.,outside is also awful, and except eastern asia.

maybe it is a perfect time to work for an almost boring, none-style, botique firm

I started at SOM Chicago in June of 1990, a month after graduation, and was laid off after only 5 months (November 1, an event noted in the Tribune as the "Halloween Massacre", a mass layoff of 50 architects plus the entire IT staff). I worked for Kelly Temporary for a while - got to work in the White Sox front office - then went to graduate school to ride out the rest. Everyone I knew in Chicago lost their job at one point or another.

Our plight even appeared in the mainstream media. An article appeared in the Wall Street Journal in 1991 titled "In This Economy, Be Glad You're Not A Young Architect" chronicling the travels of a U-Texas-Austin grad who had gotten laid off from a number of high-profile firms. I was already accepted to grad school and knew my short term future, but that article scared the bejeezus out of me. Didn't know if I'd ever get back to the point where I would have a job again, but I was too young and shortsighted at the time to know that the storms would blow over, and everything would get okay again.

OF brings up a very good point...

periods of recession are great times to go back to school.

i dont think a person in this field should be specialized in 1 niche'. what if that niche' dries up and your out of luck.

i also believe that jobs/firms shouldnt focus soooo much on the traditional side of office life. there's alot of talent out there that can be utilized in a design/work office but due to the typical 'standards' of hiring/etc, alot of talent gets over looked. why do you think talented people leave the profession!!!!

cryz, totally read your point wrong, you were agreeing with me, my bad.

Being a generalist might help you avoid market downturns, but it also ensures that you are always going to be competing with a huge number of people for employment and projects - good times or bad. From what I've seen, specialist firms tend to make more money (and pay more). If you are more one for capitalism than conviction, one can do pretty well with the Madonna model - do what's hot when it's hot, and move on to the next thing before it blows up.

Downturns are never consistent across the whole industry - I bet this is a great time to be in oil field services or defense infrastructure.

3 more...

Antisthenes, 3 more what?

Approximately 100 more

Don't tell me that a firm laied off 100 employees!

However, we also have 140 internal vacancies

f*ck joe the plumber, who's gonna help JOE THE ARCHITECT?

Exactly. Joe the plumber definitely has better job security than we do.

i think the country is gonna hit rock bottom soon..... better stock up on canned food and get ready for the riots....

I say this in all seriousness, not to be flip.

When I got out of architecture school the first time, I waited tables for three years. Nice places, good food, good wine, good tips. Had the time of my life, really. Once I started to work at a firm, it was two or three years before my 40-hour paycheck rose to the amount I'd been making working 25 hours a week (5 dinners) at the restaurant.

Cuisine for thought.

yup.....

i made more cash in construction/model building/exhibit engineering than i can make in architecture right now (entry level because thats how the system works)


sort of sad if you ask me.......

when i hear the candidates talk about jobs all i can think about is 'exploitable labor' and class war.

Hearing from various sources - its sounding like Black Monday in NYC architecture today:

Can anyone confirm:

60-80 laid off - hi-rise residential firm
30 laid off - three letter prominent firm
20 laid off - post-modern developer firm
10 laid off - planning firm
20 laid off - another three letter prominent firm
10 laid off - hotel/interiors firm

curious if the suicide rates are going to rise in the u.s.

i'm sure depression and anxiety is higher also.........

Name some names. Have some balls... Otherwise no one knows where ti send their resumé.

.......not to send their resumes....

exactly, cryzko!

I've already seen a couple articles on escalating depression/divorce/ suicide statistics.

layoffs , what layoffs, hold on one sec. HR on the other line....

i didnt read this whole thread, so someone might have said this

...its not just architecture its alot of professions ..its all b/c of the economy ..but i have a feeling we will dig our selves out of this slump soon.

would you buy stocks now, hoping it is a low point?

I just found this article from July 5, 1990: New York Times
"Troubled Times for Architecture Industry"

18 years ago...

Back in 91, at the beginning of the year I was one of 29 people at Morphosis. But over the next several months, three of the biggest jobs died in a row, and I was one of seven remaining nine months later -- then the partners split up. I luckily was able to work with the startup of Roto through 9-92 when I went back to (grad) school; by the time I was out in '94 things were looking up again in architecture. Hopefully, even in a worse case scenario, this downturn wouldn't be any longer...

back in '82, I used throw a pigskin a quarter mile.

PbElemental laid off 1/3 of thier staff two weeks ago

Is anybody here working in Europe?
I know in the UK, there are very few jobs around. I haven't heard (throught friends of friends etc) of any people losing their jobs yet but most of the offices are not hiring.

I'm in Scotland... tis the same here. Times were really good only a year ago, so I left my permanent job to take up part-time contract work. But there are no more jobs or contracts now that that first one finished.

Some good things, though:

In London, say, it's almost trendy to be an unemployed professional at the moment and all over, it's not like the unemployed person need feel singled-out as some sort of underachiever.

I have all that free time I've always wanted to see what I'm capable of, in a variety of fields, without the constraints of pleasing a boss / client / having to 'fit in' to a mediocre scenario, etc. etc.: time for some HI CONCEPT EXPLORATIONS :-)

Any sort of radical change is a great excuse for a re-evaluation and a refreshment of what really drives you in life... taking hold of those dreams again.

Now I'm off to see my recruitment agent: not that she has any jobs on the go but it adds a 'job seeking activity' to my list come Friday, when I sign on for my dole money.

And real money? Well, the great thing about earning so little as an architect is that it's not such a big difference to be earning nothing at all ;-p

HOK maybe hiring...

Check you local office. They're doing a second university in Saudi Arabia.

Solidred, I like your style.

:-)

with this whole issue of jobs laying off/etc.... has anyone delayed making a drastic move to another state/etc...

I'm considering 3-6 months in the Gulf
I also considered commuting every week between Scotland & London... I have a friend in the States who used to fly to work (IT Consultant) after all, but then binned it: London's most fun without the pesky work bit. But Dubai? I guess you stand back and admire your latest skyscraper whilst getting obscenely rich (relatively speaking) with nothing to spend it on except... a month's partying back in ol' London town...

PS Brazil's recently discovered a large off-shore oil deposit - my guess is Rio could be a great place to be in a few years' time... for all sorts of reasons ;-)

that's easy...
as architects we always want to fly away to jobs somewhere.
at times like this, we should be also looking into our own community, looking into environment around us and create and think about ways to contribute without large amounts of money involved.
i certainly understand the survival and job situation, needing a paycheck but we also have to develop some new grounds where we can apply our knowledge and expertise. rather than going through a list of places where they might be hiring for the same old same old.
dubai is not the answer. they will hit the bottom line too, if not already. i am sure they are screening the news like hawks because a panic on the gulf can stop all that development like an emrgency brake..

why would you get rich being a cadmonkey in the desert? maybe if you sold bentley's or gold plated furniture.

Start tracking firms that have done work in the Middle East. Many of them are getting followup work.

In Dubai I know that they pay a person on my level about the same or slightly more.

The interesting thing is that a lot of the work there is being done by American or European firms -- (i.e. the HoKs, Genslers, etc). So they pay by company standards many of times.

Oh and knowing Arabic is not an advantage since you can live your whole life there without using a word of it.

This is all based on personal experience.

Just curious, anyone here considering leaving the field?

yup....... many times.......

qo3x12w ^ stated Davis Partnership in Denver laid people off and I recently heard they were doing work in Dubai...along with a couple other firms from here.

at times like this, we should be also looking into our own community, looking into environment around us and create and think about ways to contribute without large amounts of money involved.


Thanks Orhan - that's the best and most positive thing I've heard in a while.

I secretly want to get laid off.

brand avenue, yes I am planning my exit out of the profession, at least in the traditional sense.

oh, and we had a round of layoffs yesterday.

that was fast strawbeary, weren't you just hiring two weeks ago?

sorta. we are hiring if any one of 5 projects goes into production, and I'm pretty sure at least 3 of them will. But I could be wrong.

and I should say, duh, the layoffs were in another office.

if would have known about the way the profession is... i would have went to trade school.....seriously

Ohran, thanks: wise words.

As for the profession, I've been dreaming of escape routes ever since I started. The weird thing is that I love *architecture* more and more... so many fascinating aspects of it and its potential. It's just that as an employee one's crushed by the dead-weight of commerce... I should set up my own thing but... hmm... commerce again.

Anyone thought of doing a PhD?

Solidred,

Discussion of pros and cons for doing a PhD is an occasional topic here. You should search the threads, and you'll find a lot of questions and insight.

Solidred - do you want to be an academic? I've heard PhDs are gruelling, and can narrowly focus your architectural thinking...it's all about defining the question. I don't think I could do one...a MArch is enough for me, thanks.

I moved states about 6 months ago for my current job. I'm glad I moved, things are slowing down where I was, and how they are hitting LA pretty hard. We are going through rounds of layoffs though. It's awful and I really feel for the younger staff that have just come out of school or have limited office experience.

I've been trying to get out of the "profession" for a while, but feel compelled to stay. Architecture is fascinating but it can suck the life out of you at times. Maybe time to switch gears and write a book or something...

I've written hundreds of pages of text over the last few years... about ten of which are directly about architecture ;-p
As for PhDs (briefly, not wishing to stray off topic) my brother started two, so I know they require a certain sustained single-mindedness, which I'm hardly good at. I just want something that requires some intellect; that puts deeper thinking to some sort of worthwhile use.

I've written hundreds of pages of text over the last few years... about ten of which are directly about architecture ;-p
As for PhDs (briefly, not wishing to stray off topic) my brother started two, so I know they require a certain sustained single-mindedness, which I'm hardly good at. I just want something that requires some intellect; that puts deeper thinking to some sort of worthwhile use.
[will now check out those PhD threads... :-)]

Someone can feel fee to stop me, but is it just me or does this kind of bullshit always happen during republican administrations?

1981
1987
1991
2001
2008

it's global though
...mind you, hang on a sec...

Talked to some of the pricipals about the economy for architects and they all said it's "not like the 70's." All of them started in the early to mid 1970's and said the late 70's were awful. 1981 was when Volker raised short term interest rates super high to kill the rampant inflation but the general economy had been reeling since at least the '79 oil embargo, probably earlier given what I've been told about the '70's. I was pretty young then to remember much.

I've heard that back then everyone would get registered fast as possible because if you were unemployed you could always "hang your shingle" and try do get work freelance. Several bosses have said the lack of interest in taking the ARE is because the economy has been generally good for so long. 20+ years with only a hiccup here and there.

My fear is that what we have in store is worse than the 1970's and will mirror the 1930's more. Architects might get jobs in gov't sponsored "make work" type projects, but private capital won't be spent on building. I think a bigger portion of our work will come from retrofit/remodel stuff. Making existing buildings more energy efficient and space efficient will be a big deal when nobody has cash to spend on luxuries. Recently I've seen some retail remodel/rework projects to make existing "power centers," malls, etc., more transit/pedestrian oriented. Have a feeling that work will continue, while the "new" buildings on empty sites will dry up.

so with the way loans/economy is right now..... do you think folks will be able to get college loans?


might be time to get a CDL and drive a truck.....

my friends that are still in grad school said the incoming class this past september was the smallest it's been in a number of years

MArch, next year it will be the largest it's been in years.

In a way, it's a good opportunity for many people who have 4-year or other non NAAB-accredited degrees to go back to GRAD school after being laid off.

very true archmed

I'm not so sure that grad school programs will be flush with students in the coming years. When times are tight people usually are adverse to spending money, higher education included. It'd be interesting to check student population at major universities during economic downtimes but my guess would be that student enrollment was down in the 70's and jumped in the 80's when the economy started rolling again.

Archinect might not be the best cross section of the architecture community as a whole since most people here seem to be closely aligned and/or hold academics in high regard. Those already inclined to attend grad school might view an economic downturn as an opportunity since employment is tight. However I belive the vast majority will be risk adverse to spending money/taking on debt when the future outlook is dim.

What I do think will happen is a prolonged downturn will drive many people away from traditional architecture firms. In the short term it will balance the supply/demand of our services, in the long term a shortage of talent may arise in coming years. I've always advocated an across the board reduction in the number of professionals in this business, mostly to negotiate higher fees by inverting the supply/demand curve. Unfortunately I think the people in our profession that should be retiring will hang on since their retirement accounts have shrunk while hiring freezes will keep out young talent. The end is a major brain drain in the not so distant future. Similar as mentioned above.

Taking on a lot of debt for architecture school is CRAZY!!!!

My community college program has had an increase in enrollment. Graduate school? There would have to be some payoff.

When the economy is bad many people go back to school. My parents are both professors at different universities and they said that both schools reported record attendance figures during the post 9/11 2001 recession.

Those figures are based on the percentages of non-traditional students enrolled -- they can be anyone from ages 28 and up who have either opted for a career change or to buttress their current degree with another specialized degree. I know people doing this now because of the recession.

i would like to do my m.a. in industrial design........

make, i spent $8K a year to go to one of the top research institutions in the world. sure it isn't pocket change, but its nowhere near the debt you speak of

i would like 60k more in debt

RTKL's LA office already laid off 70, and it is said would be more

MArch06


That's sound! Which school?

berkeley - one caveat of course, CA residency. but that simply can't be beat

When I leave NYC for good next summer, If I can't find a decent architecture gig in 6 months I'm just going to accelerate my application to graduate schools, probably for an M.B.A in Development. I figure grad school would be a great place to get out of the economic shitstorm for a few years. Sure I'll rack up huge debt, but the degree should pay for itself.

I work at a very tiny high-end residential firm in NYC. One week in september me and my boss were bemoaning the fact that we were short on staff, two weeks later my hours got cut and it looks like even our blue blood client base may be tightening the purse strings with downtown whipping itself into a frenzy. I'm concerned for my job.

Oh, and on a side note, most of my nuclear family works for AIG...

AIG is socialist now right? When does universal insurance start can you tell me?

so, is anyone working in a job thats not in architecture right now?