It looks as if my next place of residence once I finish my M.Arch from UofCincy will be in the wonderful San Francisco Bay, just like Kyle's dad. Do I have a job? Do I have a place to live? No. Do I have a roommate? No.
Here's my current situation and needs. I'll graduate after my 7th year of college in the middle of June, which means I'll be looking to move in July or August (since I'll be dead broke soon after graduation). I've previously worked for Gensler DC, and since they have openings at my level in San Francisco, they are my current plan for employment.
I've got 7 years of schooling (4yr BS Arch and 3yr M.Arch) at 2 different schools, and 5 internships with 4 different companies (one of them being in London) giving me about 35-40% done with my IDP. This is all to give people a gauge for my funding. I'll have SEVER loans to pay back though.
Also, my German girlfriend will be moving to the states around September for a 6-month study abroad. This will mostly likely be California State - East Bay (Hayward). Something by a BART line that would take here to school would be nice.
I have a car, but would prefer to sell it before I move. I'm definitely an involved urbanite, and I like to have plenty of cafes, watering holes, butcher/baker/groceries nearby. I don't need to be right in the mix of the hottest night life, just as long as I can get back home without the use of a car.
In addition, I may have a good friend, and thus roommate solution, that would move there the same time I would. However, his main issues are funding since he, and places where he can have both a cat and dog. I said I'd be willing to shoulder a bit more of the costs if I got a the larger room.
So there we have it. Money will all depend on my loan paybacks and how much I end up making, however I can't afford too much. I'd like to keep it at no more than 1,000 per room. I'd prefer to walk/bike/public transit to work (most likely public transit). My personal limit is usually in the 30-45 minute commute area to get to work. Areas, suggestions for even certain apartments, or general info for San Francisco would be appreciated. Thanks everyone!
I wonder if rents in Hayes Valley (fifteen blocks west of 2 Harrison) are that much higher than in Berkeley ? Nice relaxed atmosphere, new shops and restaurants, treed streets and parks, central location; old bars and coffee shops, four blocks to the symphony and opera, six to the main library and Aulenti's Asian Art Museum. . .
My favorite neighborhoods to live in San Francisco that are close to everything (public transportation + fun stuff):
*Potrero Hill
*Mission
*Noe Valley
*Hayes Valley
*Lower Haight
From all of those locations you can pretty easily jump on BART or take a bus to Gensler's downtown office. Also, commuting on bicycle is really easy and often faster than public transportation.
If you are looking to live somewhere other than SF, commuting from Oakland or Berkeley would be pretty easy as well.
The main resource for apartments is Craigslist and if you're willing to pay up to $1000 for one room in a 2br, you should be fine. It's more expensive than you think but it's worth being patient to find a nice place in a good location. If you decide to move in with housemates you find on Craigslist, just make sure you go and visit and such ... yeah, you know.
San Francisco is one of my all time favorite cities ever. Welcome!
"This will mostly likely be California State - East Bay (Hayward). Something by a BART line that would take here to school would be nice."
Then I would seriously recommend living in (a safe part of) Oakland or Berkeley for her sake-the commute to Hayward will be slightly less painful for her if you do so. And Oakland and Berkeley have great neighborhoods, more affordable real estate, with less of the pretense (admittedly less of the nightlife as well) as SF. But commuting to Hayward from SF every day? Hells no.
I don't know much about the East Bay as I never spent much time there. There are lots of people that live there though, and of course Cal is there, so there's a great college community as well. I think it may be time to talk about acceptable neighborhoods in Oakland, which is new territory for me! I know lots of rich people live in the hills, and that's all I got....
The Piedmont Avenue and Rockridge neighborhoods in Oakland are very nice, although you very well could pay just as much there as in SF. I have friends who have lived in the Temescal neighborhood and that was nice as well. And the Lake Merritt area is nice too-basically North Oakland is nice, IMO East Oakland, which is actually sort of south of downtown, and West Oakland are not safe. And the North Oakland neigborhoods have good transit access-I had a car, but didn't have to use it unless it was for shopping for a lot of stuff or to get away on the weekends. Buses, trains and bikes can do for most things.
Downtown and North Berkeley are nice too-Berkeley south of campus is very student heavy, obviously. West and Southwest Berkeley have the highest crime rate in the city and can feel a little dicey (to me) but it's a small city and it's easy to get around there.
I would definitely recommend some North Oakland neighborhoods for convenience and price.
OK, what are we talking about here as far as distance? I mean, can I live in North Oakland and get to Gensler (by the Bay bridge) in like 20-30 minutes? Hell, if we're talking about saving several hundreds of dollars a month in rent, then why not do it? I mean, is it like living in Brooklyn, and then just taking a 20 min subway ride to Manhattan every time you want to use the "Main" elements of the city or go to some of the trendier bars?
Also, no one's really mentioned price ranges for anything here. What can I expect to pay for a 2 bedroom apartment (the total for the apartment, not per bedroom) in some of the more reasonable neighborhoods in San Fran, North Oakland, etc. Oh, and when do the bars close and when does the public transit stop at night?
Bars close @ 2 am, BART ends at midnight (at least that's how it worked when I was there). MUNI ends later. That can be a problem.
If you live in North Oakland/Berkeley and take the BART, you can get to SF in 30 or so minutes. If you are driving, forget it. Conversely, some places in far west SF can take longer to reach downtown SF via public transportation.
I haven't lived there in years so who know how things are there now, but minimum $1700 for an 2 bedroom anywhere in the area sounds right. Check out Craigslist.
well I've been browsing Craigslist all day, and no worries there, I love the site. I've gotten my last 3 sublets off of them, and became friends with all these people once I moved back.
The only main issue was craiglist pulls up lots of crap too, and stuff that is just too expensive. Lots of listings don't have pictures, and I have no idea what areas I should be looking (until now). Curious some things I've discovered so far on the c-list:
1. There are a lot of "elite living" complexes that are rather affordable. However, they don't look urban in the slightest, and appear to be your emotionless but spacious living with pools, fitness centers, etc. In my experiences, these tend to be in the more suburban parts of a city. Is this the case in SFBA?
2. A lot of the cheaper apartments, and certainly the studios, state NO KITCHEN!? Also, most of these state no illegal drugs clearly on their ads. Wow, a big turnoff. Using google's street view (god this is a great tool) I can see the cars on the street don't look great, and the neighborhoods look dull and a bit run down. But question being, if I see a mention on a craigslist ad that says no drugs, that is almost a def sign that it's a druggie area right? (ofcourse, if there's no kitchen, forget about it).
3. In the case of not having a roomie, I've found some decent 1-bedroom and studios in places like Nob Hill for around 1200. Hayes valley, I found a couple 1bedrooms for 950 and 1100.
4. Oakland Piedmont has GREAT prices comparatively to most of SF. Plenty of 1beds for around a grand, several 2 beds for 1500 or less. So what gives?
Main problem with East Bay is my gf is just going to be there for a few months while she does a term or two at CSU-Hayward. I, however, will be working downtown, so if its a matter of her commuting to school for 30-40 min every day, well that's what will happen.
I plan to move to the San Francisco area in Late may or early June, and I'm basically going through the same thing. All the listings that I've noticed on Craigslist have been in the mid 1,000's range, which was to be expected. I've narrowed our search to east bay, but I'm wasn't quite sure where the safe and unsafe areas are. Thanks to odb I have a little better idea. I've also found some listings of apartments closer to the west side of san francisco, walking distant to golden gate park, are those areas ok or kind of shady.
Any comments or suggestions would help at this point. Thanks and have a good one.
If you are intent on living in SF and making the girlfriend commute to Hayward, it will be tough for her, although I'm sure she'll love living in the city more. And if that experience is what she's looking for, then I'm sure she'll compromise. However, I would highly recommend locating yourself very near a Bart station to make her life easier.
That said, the worst neighborhoods in San Francisco are better than the neighborhood *you* live in now. Or at least everyone's perception of it! (SBD and I used to be roommates, in case anyone is confused....)
And my perception of Oakland is that the neighborhood you live in now is better than some (many?) parts of Oakland. I hope I am wrong, again, this is just my perception. But things like this don't help:
Huanmic -- where on the "west side of san francisco" ? I'd feel safe in the Sunset or Richmond districts, maybe not in the heart of the Fillmore (south of Geary, between say Franklin and Divisadero). . .
I was refering to the Sunset District. Also, what would I be looking at in terms of communting time going from North Oakland to Downtown San Fran on the average. I guess we're just focusing our efforts on east bay. The price for a place in San Fran is just too much, oh well what can you do.
I would appreciate suggestions as to where are good spots to look for in the East Bay area. Thanks
i can't say exactly how long it would take to commute from oakland to downtown SF, but if you live relatively close to BART, it shouldn't be too bad (about 30min). which is, surprisingly, the same or less time it would take you to commute from the sunset.
fyi, in san francisco, there are a lot of microclimates. every neighborhood has its own weather, and i'm not really kidding so much. anyway, the sunset and richmond districts are notorious for being cloudy, cold, and grey. while you have proximity to golden gate park, which is nice, you are also removed from the rest of the city life. it's like living way out in the suburbs or something.
oakland is typically sunnier and warmer than san francisco.
Also, the Mission (our districts have names, as you see, and are referred to as "the") is sometimes called the Banana Belt, as it is reliably sunnier than other areas. And it is true that the northern SF peninsula -- the City itself -- is on average more temperate than any other outlying area, whether north, east or south of the city. In other words, it never gets as cold, or as hot, in the city than in any of the suburbs. True fact. I've been here 29 years. We had an unusually chilly winter this year -- often in the low forties at night.
Potrero Hill and Bernal Heights are two pleasant neighborhoods "South of Market" (Street) that people seem to like. Entirely residential, with small shops and restaurants. Most people own there, but any rentals would be quite desirable. Potrero would be closer to downtown. Comfortable and quiet.
Lots of young people in the Lower Haight and Hayes Valley. Funkier. Don't leave valuables in your car overnight.
a couple of corrections from some of the above comments:
Rockridge is NOT the gourmet ghetto. the GG is north berkeley, more specifically Shattuck between, say Virginia and Rose.
next, Bernal Heights and Potrero hill are indeed nice places to live, but neither are convenient to BART. from either of those hoods, you'd be stuck with MUNI to get your ass downtown.
as well, the Sunset and Richmond areas (Richmond District, not City of...) are on a good day equal commuting distances from downtown as the East Bay, and on a bad day they are much worse because again, you're stuck with MUNI.
what else...East edge of the Mission is a cool area, not wuite as beat-up as most of the mission, and a little quieter. the lower haight is a nice area, as is the Panhandle which is gentrifying quite rapidly. given that the Octavia Blvd. area was just approved for yet another SanFran 40 story tower that area will be bumping up soon too.
Hayes Valley is great if you're rich, same with the Fillmore/California area and the Marina.
Treasure Island is always an interesting choice, if you don't mind polluted soil.
My preference, however, is East Bay all the Way.
Berkeley has some real funk to it in some places, and if you stay close to the BART corridor (Think Ashby BART) you're going to be in a 25min commuting range to Gensler.
Oakland has some great areas too...mostly up and coming as well. Temescal is quite the hipster hangout, especially on Telegraph between, say, 45th and 51st. Bakesale Betty's, Pizzaiola and Dona Tomas all in there. Downtown was having a bit of a revival until news of the recession hit, and now i'm not too sure. There are a bunch of new restaurants and bars opening there however, so it's either still happening, or just bad timing for those operators.
I'll try and keep up with this thread and continue to offer some thoughts...but damn am i swamped right now.
good luck...feel free to PM me if you've got a "few" specific questions. we'll meet for a beer someday in the city by the bay.
i don't think anything's affordable in sf, unless you can hammock under a pier unnoticed.
no one's mentioned brisbane, ssf, etc, but transit's a problem.
potrero hill. maybe bike downhill in the morning to 3rd st (muni "train") which should drop you near 2nd&harrison? (check map). so no transfers. gotta wimp your way back uphill in the evening. http://www.avolent.com/images/avo_map.jpg http://www.potrerohillsf.com/2006/06/potrero-yes-it-really-is-a-hill/
oh, that mudder map. looks like the bloody areas are inverse of the money areas. (except emeryville. because it's not within the statsmap's area?)
Oakland is not bad -- it has no more crime than your basic third-world country. And the easy access to the river means that bodies do not spend a lot of time decomposing on land.
I think East Bay is the best option for several reasons. Aside from affordability, there is the convenience factor for my lady to travel to Hayward every day for school. But as I noted, she's here for only 6 months and I will have to commit to at least a year and trek to downtown SF myself everyday. However, from the sounds of it, and from views on craigslist and WonderK's murder map, it seems that Piedmont is the best place as far as value, safety, and hipness go. But is my follow up question:
The Bart stations that her and I would use appear to be MacArthur, 19th St, and Oakland City Center. However, these appear to be a little bit aways from most of Piedmont, and the latter two are within the "danger zone". So I ask, what other public transit does Oakland have, its reliability, its service zone, and ofcourse, cost? Does Oakland and SF have joint transit seasonal passes? I assume that if I lived in Piedmont, I'd take a bus to MacArthur, then the Bart to Downtown SF, and the the transit system in SF during business hours and on the weekends. Do I have to buy a bus pass for Oakland's Transit, the Bart, and SF transit all separately? Also, with living in Oakland, does that start to become difficult to live with out a car? I was planning on selling mine, in part to pay for moving costs.
Lastly, I've applied to Gensler-SF, but even though the position is open and I've worked for another of their offices, this isn't a guarantee. What are some good firms in SF that do good work, pay well, and are pleasant to work for? Any of you in a firm that wants to hire me?
Now, SBD, you need to be careful of something here. Piedmont is a vague term, considering there are TWO of them.
There's the nice and highly gentrified Piedmont Avenue neighborhood, and then there's the upper-class bedroom enclave and incorporated city within a city of Piedmont, CA.
They are close, and Piedmont Avenue does not in fact take you to Piedmont, well, not really anyway.
Most rentals in the Piedmont hood are apartments and if you're lucky, a unit in a du- or tri-plex. nice hood though, lots of cafes/bars/restaurants and yoga studios.
Almost everything (save for the occasional in-law unit) in Piedmont proper are owner occupied. It rivals Pacific Heights in SF and Mill Valley in Marin for the wealthiest area in the immediate Bay Area.
Either way, both Piedmonts are pretty far from BART, thought Piedmont Ave is closer to MacArthur station.
South on the SF peninsula is always an affordable option. Family friendly areas include Glen Park, San Bruno, MAYBE Excelsior or Visitacion valley, but IMHO those areas are both too far for a commute to Hayward by BART and not really what you want if you're only going to be in the area for maybe a couple years. If you've been here a while and want to buy, then they're better options.
North Oakland (Temescal) and South Berkeley (Near Ashby) are, if you want my opinion, the best options for your situation. Downtown Oakland is also cool...
MacArthur BART gets sketchy, 12th Street and 19th Street City Center options are less so.
Other transit options include AC Transit, and yes, sadly, you need separate passes for BART, MUNI, AC Transit, as well as CalTrain if you'll be on the Peninsula at all.
Also, from North Oakland and/or South Berkeley you can easily (and safely) ride your bike to and from BART.
I used to live in Fruitvale (heart of the "danger zone") and had some pretty tough interactions riding home from BART after midnight on the weekends. dude's trying to buy my bike and hassling me for no good reason other than that i was there.
not to say that there's no crime in the non-danger zones. it's an urban area. there's random acts of moral depravity that can happen anywhere, you know?
Im not afraid of general urban crime. Hell, the danger zone doesn't even bother me. 2 nights ago, I was sitting in my bedroom with the windows open looking out, and saw flashes behind an alley down the street and the sound "pop pop pop pop pop pop pop", then of course cop cars a couple minutes later. And between this place and my old place, I think a total of 3 cops have been killed on blocks I've lived on. As WonderK states, the place that I'll end up picking will be loads better than where I live now (this isn't to say I hate my current neighborhood). I just need something where I don't get panhandled 3 times a day every day (occassional is fine) and where there is some community/cafe/grocery/semi-night life within a walkable distance. Ofcourse getting to the BART is essential, especially for my lady who is coming from Cologne which is a very clean and safe city. So if getting from the Piedmont Ave neighborhood to the BART isn't so easy, then N. Oakland seems to be the must. But you still didn't answer my question concerning cars.
i know plenty of folks who live in Oakland without cars.
AC Transit isn't great, but it's got pretty good coverage. and most of the buses have bike racks. all in all, it's not a bad way to go, and zipcars are pretty common too, for the occasional large grocery trip or whatever.
keep your car if you want (i have mine...) and most places in north oakland will have decent enough street parking if not a driveway.
it's not that getting from Piedmont Ave to BART isn't easy, i mean, it's not HARD, but it's not exactly close proximity.
my feeling on the area mass transit is that if you can live or work near one of them, you cut one link out. i live near BART, so when i used to commute into the city, i could simply ride my bike down the hill, then hop on BART, and THEN begin my crosstown SF busride. if i had to start with a busride too, it would've made the whole affair a bit less tolerable.
there's a fairly robust car-free community here, i just wouldn't know, given that i'm a volkswagen owner.
SBD -- my daugher moved to SF right after school and generally has been stunned by the cost of living there. She sold her car immediately and hasn't seemed to regret that decision once. She generally rides her bike to work and rents a car on those occasions when she really needs four wheels - which seems rare.
Initially, she lived in the Mission District (below 17th Street, slightly west of Mission Street) ... she now lives adjacent Buena Vista Park, near Haight/Ashbury. Her work is located in the downtown area, roughly at the intersection of Market and 1st. She seems to get around quite effortlessly on her bike or on public transporation. She seems quite content with her lifestyle in SF.
Man - Sorry Ive missed this thread for so long. I moved form NY 2 years ago to the SF bay area. I fucking love it here. But I moved here to live in a great city...not the outlying suburbs(the peninsula, parts of Berkeley and Oakland) I call them suburbs b/c some of the communities within are hard to get to and from with out a car.
I live in the Sunset(west side of the city) and work in Berkeley and take public transit everywhere I go. So I travel against the rush hour traffic. Most people dont get why I live in the "expensive city" and dont work there. Basically I love the city life(its not the same in the east bay) more specifically the night life and my friends. As stated earlier BART stops running at Midnight so getting back home in the east bay would be a problem. Most MUNI (SF bus and light rail lines) stop running at 1am. Most AC-Transit (EastBay Bus lines) stop running at 12:30am - But most of the major bus lines have owl hour service running all night long. So getting around all night within either the east bay or sf is definitely doable. I do it all the time.
And to get to why I dont work in SF
1. I love my job.
2. Most of the east bay arch firms are smaller 20-50 peeps (less corperate
3. Most of the eastbay firms are leading the sustainability charge.
4. and this job offered me good money.
As for your not wanting to get panhandle 3 times a day. I cant seem to find a place in California where I wouldnt get panhandled 3 times a day. I am from NY and have this switch in my head when someone is begging me for money that I just ignore them and keep walking. I really dont have the time to hear what everyone excuse is for not having money. Sometimes if ive had a few and I get asked for money I ask them if they take credit cards. that usually shuts them up...and hey I offered to give them money.
Sometimes in the Eastbay it may be hard to find shops and food within walking distance...but most shops and foods are close enough for a ride on the bus.
As mighty said certain communities have a mix of shit going on. Piedmont has a bery nice area and a very bad area. same thing with sf communities the mission can be heaven and can be hell. you can be walking for 4 blocks and pass through a in and out of a shitty neighborhoood.
Shit - Im really busy today(when am I not) But I have to go - Ill chim in later with some more. Hope this is helping.
ok, so I was able to secure a job in Berkeley, and now we're in the process to look for a sublet. Our schedule is to move pack up all our stuff and make the move to San Fran in the middle of June, since I'm starting the beginning of July. So far, we've had a hard time finding a sublet that will accept a dog, what a pain. Wish me luck and if you guys hear something or have anymore suggestions, please share the love.
I've applied to some of the big boys and i'm waiting to hear back (SOM, Gensler, Ellerbe Becket) but I'm not too familiar with the really innovative, exciting, and reimbursing firms in the area. Anyone wanna chime in?
I'm just happy that I've got a job for now, we'll talk about the innovative firms next time around. Is it feasible to safely live in tenderloin? I'm hearing all of these things about the area, but I can't imagine that it's worse than southside chicago right?
Live on the peninsula! I have lived in SF for some time now (Mission/Dolores area...and ABSOLUTELY love it). I have many friends who live in the East Bay and often hear them compaining about the commute. SF is possibly the best city in the United States! Welcome!
i'm scared of the tenderloin. even during the day. but to answer your question: honestly, yeah, it's probably feasible to safely live in the TL. probably.
Bayview is "racially diverse and vibrant" (to paraphrase the realtors' language) -- and the new 3rd Street light rail line connects the district to downtown.
Hey I've actually found something in Emeryville, at one of those trendy mixed apartments off of Bay Street. How much is typical for electricity and rest of utilities? The person I spoke with mentioned that on an average from month to month she pays about $25 a month on electricity, and 10 to 15 on water, sewer, and garbage. This seems to be a little bit low, but then again I could be getting gouged. Please shed some light on this.
Moving to San Francisco
It looks as if my next place of residence once I finish my M.Arch from UofCincy will be in the wonderful San Francisco Bay, just like Kyle's dad. Do I have a job? Do I have a place to live? No. Do I have a roommate? No.
Here's my current situation and needs. I'll graduate after my 7th year of college in the middle of June, which means I'll be looking to move in July or August (since I'll be dead broke soon after graduation). I've previously worked for Gensler DC, and since they have openings at my level in San Francisco, they are my current plan for employment.
I've got 7 years of schooling (4yr BS Arch and 3yr M.Arch) at 2 different schools, and 5 internships with 4 different companies (one of them being in London) giving me about 35-40% done with my IDP. This is all to give people a gauge for my funding. I'll have SEVER loans to pay back though.
Also, my German girlfriend will be moving to the states around September for a 6-month study abroad. This will mostly likely be California State - East Bay (Hayward). Something by a BART line that would take here to school would be nice.
I have a car, but would prefer to sell it before I move. I'm definitely an involved urbanite, and I like to have plenty of cafes, watering holes, butcher/baker/groceries nearby. I don't need to be right in the mix of the hottest night life, just as long as I can get back home without the use of a car.
In addition, I may have a good friend, and thus roommate solution, that would move there the same time I would. However, his main issues are funding since he, and places where he can have both a cat and dog. I said I'd be willing to shoulder a bit more of the costs if I got a the larger room.
So there we have it. Money will all depend on my loan paybacks and how much I end up making, however I can't afford too much. I'd like to keep it at no more than 1,000 per room. I'd prefer to walk/bike/public transit to work (most likely public transit). My personal limit is usually in the 30-45 minute commute area to get to work. Areas, suggestions for even certain apartments, or general info for San Francisco would be appreciated. Thanks everyone!
What is the address of the Gensler office you'd work at ?
north berkeley. or you can sell an organ and live by the rockridge bart station, in the heart of the gourmet ghetto.
I wonder if rents in Hayes Valley (fifteen blocks west of 2 Harrison) are that much higher than in Berkeley ? Nice relaxed atmosphere, new shops and restaurants, treed streets and parks, central location; old bars and coffee shops, four blocks to the symphony and opera, six to the main library and Aulenti's Asian Art Museum. . .
Any serious and sincere suggestions?
i give it 3 months
I was serious. Maybe you want funkier ?
My favorite neighborhoods to live in San Francisco that are close to everything (public transportation + fun stuff):
*Potrero Hill
*Mission
*Noe Valley
*Hayes Valley
*Lower Haight
From all of those locations you can pretty easily jump on BART or take a bus to Gensler's downtown office. Also, commuting on bicycle is really easy and often faster than public transportation.
If you are looking to live somewhere other than SF, commuting from Oakland or Berkeley would be pretty easy as well.
The main resource for apartments is Craigslist and if you're willing to pay up to $1000 for one room in a 2br, you should be fine. It's more expensive than you think but it's worth being patient to find a nice place in a good location. If you decide to move in with housemates you find on Craigslist, just make sure you go and visit and such ... yeah, you know.
San Francisco is one of my all time favorite cities ever. Welcome!
"This will mostly likely be California State - East Bay (Hayward). Something by a BART line that would take here to school would be nice."
Then I would seriously recommend living in (a safe part of) Oakland or Berkeley for her sake-the commute to Hayward will be slightly less painful for her if you do so. And Oakland and Berkeley have great neighborhoods, more affordable real estate, with less of the pretense (admittedly less of the nightlife as well) as SF. But commuting to Hayward from SF every day? Hells no.
I don't know much about the East Bay as I never spent much time there. There are lots of people that live there though, and of course Cal is there, so there's a great college community as well. I think it may be time to talk about acceptable neighborhoods in Oakland, which is new territory for me! I know lots of rich people live in the hills, and that's all I got....
The Piedmont Avenue and Rockridge neighborhoods in Oakland are very nice, although you very well could pay just as much there as in SF. I have friends who have lived in the Temescal neighborhood and that was nice as well. And the Lake Merritt area is nice too-basically North Oakland is nice, IMO East Oakland, which is actually sort of south of downtown, and West Oakland are not safe. And the North Oakland neigborhoods have good transit access-I had a car, but didn't have to use it unless it was for shopping for a lot of stuff or to get away on the weekends. Buses, trains and bikes can do for most things.
Downtown and North Berkeley are nice too-Berkeley south of campus is very student heavy, obviously. West and Southwest Berkeley have the highest crime rate in the city and can feel a little dicey (to me) but it's a small city and it's easy to get around there.
I would definitely recommend some North Oakland neighborhoods for convenience and price.
OK, what are we talking about here as far as distance? I mean, can I live in North Oakland and get to Gensler (by the Bay bridge) in like 20-30 minutes? Hell, if we're talking about saving several hundreds of dollars a month in rent, then why not do it? I mean, is it like living in Brooklyn, and then just taking a 20 min subway ride to Manhattan every time you want to use the "Main" elements of the city or go to some of the trendier bars?
Also, no one's really mentioned price ranges for anything here. What can I expect to pay for a 2 bedroom apartment (the total for the apartment, not per bedroom) in some of the more reasonable neighborhoods in San Fran, North Oakland, etc. Oh, and when do the bars close and when does the public transit stop at night?
Bars close @ 2 am, BART ends at midnight (at least that's how it worked when I was there). MUNI ends later. That can be a problem.
If you live in North Oakland/Berkeley and take the BART, you can get to SF in 30 or so minutes. If you are driving, forget it. Conversely, some places in far west SF can take longer to reach downtown SF via public transportation.
I haven't lived there in years so who know how things are there now, but minimum $1700 for an 2 bedroom anywhere in the area sounds right. Check out Craigslist.
You're Hired!
so after I find you an aparment and pay the deposit for you, do i get to live in it as well? maybe i can sleep on your stoop.
I heard there is this thing called craigslist here in the united states.
well I've been browsing Craigslist all day, and no worries there, I love the site. I've gotten my last 3 sublets off of them, and became friends with all these people once I moved back.
The only main issue was craiglist pulls up lots of crap too, and stuff that is just too expensive. Lots of listings don't have pictures, and I have no idea what areas I should be looking (until now). Curious some things I've discovered so far on the c-list:
1. There are a lot of "elite living" complexes that are rather affordable. However, they don't look urban in the slightest, and appear to be your emotionless but spacious living with pools, fitness centers, etc. In my experiences, these tend to be in the more suburban parts of a city. Is this the case in SFBA?
2. A lot of the cheaper apartments, and certainly the studios, state NO KITCHEN!? Also, most of these state no illegal drugs clearly on their ads. Wow, a big turnoff. Using google's street view (god this is a great tool) I can see the cars on the street don't look great, and the neighborhoods look dull and a bit run down. But question being, if I see a mention on a craigslist ad that says no drugs, that is almost a def sign that it's a druggie area right? (ofcourse, if there's no kitchen, forget about it).
3. In the case of not having a roomie, I've found some decent 1-bedroom and studios in places like Nob Hill for around 1200. Hayes valley, I found a couple 1bedrooms for 950 and 1100.
4. Oakland Piedmont has GREAT prices comparatively to most of SF. Plenty of 1beds for around a grand, several 2 beds for 1500 or less. So what gives?
It sounds like you want to be East Bay buddy... getting to Hayward from SF is not fun times.
Main problem with East Bay is my gf is just going to be there for a few months while she does a term or two at CSU-Hayward. I, however, will be working downtown, so if its a matter of her commuting to school for 30-40 min every day, well that's what will happen.
Laguna Street, Lower Haight/Hayes Valley. Julia Morgan Jewish Women's Building/Zen Center at right.
Hello all,
I plan to move to the San Francisco area in Late may or early June, and I'm basically going through the same thing. All the listings that I've noticed on Craigslist have been in the mid 1,000's range, which was to be expected. I've narrowed our search to east bay, but I'm wasn't quite sure where the safe and unsafe areas are. Thanks to odb I have a little better idea. I've also found some listings of apartments closer to the west side of san francisco, walking distant to golden gate park, are those areas ok or kind of shady.
Any comments or suggestions would help at this point. Thanks and have a good one.
Mike
SuperBeatleDud, just a couple of comments....
If you are intent on living in SF and making the girlfriend commute to Hayward, it will be tough for her, although I'm sure she'll love living in the city more. And if that experience is what she's looking for, then I'm sure she'll compromise. However, I would highly recommend locating yourself very near a Bart station to make her life easier.
That said, the worst neighborhoods in San Francisco are better than the neighborhood *you* live in now. Or at least everyone's perception of it! (SBD and I used to be roommates, in case anyone is confused....)
And my perception of Oakland is that the neighborhood you live in now is better than some (many?) parts of Oakland. I hope I am wrong, again, this is just my perception. But things like this don't help:
Oakland Murder Map
Oakland Crimespotting
The second one is rather cool, if a bit morbid.
Huanmic, maybe this helps you too?
Huanmic -- where on the "west side of san francisco" ? I'd feel safe in the Sunset or Richmond districts, maybe not in the heart of the Fillmore (south of Geary, between say Franklin and Divisadero). . .
I was refering to the Sunset District. Also, what would I be looking at in terms of communting time going from North Oakland to Downtown San Fran on the average. I guess we're just focusing our efforts on east bay. The price for a place in San Fran is just too much, oh well what can you do.
I would appreciate suggestions as to where are good spots to look for in the East Bay area. Thanks
i can't say exactly how long it would take to commute from oakland to downtown SF, but if you live relatively close to BART, it shouldn't be too bad (about 30min). which is, surprisingly, the same or less time it would take you to commute from the sunset.
fyi, in san francisco, there are a lot of microclimates. every neighborhood has its own weather, and i'm not really kidding so much. anyway, the sunset and richmond districts are notorious for being cloudy, cold, and grey. while you have proximity to golden gate park, which is nice, you are also removed from the rest of the city life. it's like living way out in the suburbs or something.
oakland is typically sunnier and warmer than san francisco.
Also, the Mission (our districts have names, as you see, and are referred to as "the") is sometimes called the Banana Belt, as it is reliably sunnier than other areas. And it is true that the northern SF peninsula -- the City itself -- is on average more temperate than any other outlying area, whether north, east or south of the city. In other words, it never gets as cold, or as hot, in the city than in any of the suburbs. True fact. I've been here 29 years. We had an unusually chilly winter this year -- often in the low forties at night.
the sunset is bleak in the summer. fog until 2pm most days. getting downtown from the sunset used to take longer than the BART from the east bay.
Potrero Hill and Bernal Heights are two pleasant neighborhoods "South of Market" (Street) that people seem to like. Entirely residential, with small shops and restaurants. Most people own there, but any rentals would be quite desirable. Potrero would be closer to downtown. Comfortable and quiet.
Lots of young people in the Lower Haight and Hayes Valley. Funkier. Don't leave valuables in your car overnight.
congrats SBD and Huanmic!
a couple of corrections from some of the above comments:
Rockridge is NOT the gourmet ghetto. the GG is north berkeley, more specifically Shattuck between, say Virginia and Rose.
next, Bernal Heights and Potrero hill are indeed nice places to live, but neither are convenient to BART. from either of those hoods, you'd be stuck with MUNI to get your ass downtown.
as well, the Sunset and Richmond areas (Richmond District, not City of...) are on a good day equal commuting distances from downtown as the East Bay, and on a bad day they are much worse because again, you're stuck with MUNI.
what else...East edge of the Mission is a cool area, not wuite as beat-up as most of the mission, and a little quieter. the lower haight is a nice area, as is the Panhandle which is gentrifying quite rapidly. given that the Octavia Blvd. area was just approved for yet another SanFran 40 story tower that area will be bumping up soon too.
Hayes Valley is great if you're rich, same with the Fillmore/California area and the Marina.
Treasure Island is always an interesting choice, if you don't mind polluted soil.
My preference, however, is East Bay all the Way.
Berkeley has some real funk to it in some places, and if you stay close to the BART corridor (Think Ashby BART) you're going to be in a 25min commuting range to Gensler.
Oakland has some great areas too...mostly up and coming as well. Temescal is quite the hipster hangout, especially on Telegraph between, say, 45th and 51st. Bakesale Betty's, Pizzaiola and Dona Tomas all in there. Downtown was having a bit of a revival until news of the recession hit, and now i'm not too sure. There are a bunch of new restaurants and bars opening there however, so it's either still happening, or just bad timing for those operators.
I'll try and keep up with this thread and continue to offer some thoughts...but damn am i swamped right now.
good luck...feel free to PM me if you've got a "few" specific questions. we'll meet for a beer someday in the city by the bay.
i don't think anything's affordable in sf, unless you can hammock under a pier unnoticed.
no one's mentioned brisbane, ssf, etc, but transit's a problem.
potrero hill. maybe bike downhill in the morning to 3rd st (muni "train") which should drop you near 2nd&harrison? (check map). so no transfers. gotta wimp your way back uphill in the evening.
http://www.avolent.com/images/avo_map.jpg
http://www.potrerohillsf.com/2006/06/potrero-yes-it-really-is-a-hill/
oh, that mudder map. looks like the bloody areas are inverse of the money areas. (except emeryville. because it's not within the statsmap's area?)
bart goes to fremont, and i'd think the frequency is doable. (green line, no transfers http://www.bart.gov/stations/map/systemmap.asp?ct=1)
try 511.org/
http://www.sfbike.org/?maps
i expect you can google up more...
for climate, check the sunset book :-)
richmond (runnerup murder capital) and berkeley get nice fog, too..
Oakland is not bad -- it has no more crime than your basic third-world country. And the easy access to the river means that bodies do not spend a lot of time decomposing on land.
Ok, getting back to the discussion.
I think East Bay is the best option for several reasons. Aside from affordability, there is the convenience factor for my lady to travel to Hayward every day for school. But as I noted, she's here for only 6 months and I will have to commit to at least a year and trek to downtown SF myself everyday. However, from the sounds of it, and from views on craigslist and WonderK's murder map, it seems that Piedmont is the best place as far as value, safety, and hipness go. But is my follow up question:
The Bart stations that her and I would use appear to be MacArthur, 19th St, and Oakland City Center. However, these appear to be a little bit aways from most of Piedmont, and the latter two are within the "danger zone". So I ask, what other public transit does Oakland have, its reliability, its service zone, and ofcourse, cost? Does Oakland and SF have joint transit seasonal passes? I assume that if I lived in Piedmont, I'd take a bus to MacArthur, then the Bart to Downtown SF, and the the transit system in SF during business hours and on the weekends. Do I have to buy a bus pass for Oakland's Transit, the Bart, and SF transit all separately? Also, with living in Oakland, does that start to become difficult to live with out a car? I was planning on selling mine, in part to pay for moving costs.
Lastly, I've applied to Gensler-SF, but even though the position is open and I've worked for another of their offices, this isn't a guarantee. What are some good firms in SF that do good work, pay well, and are pleasant to work for? Any of you in a firm that wants to hire me?
Now, SBD, you need to be careful of something here. Piedmont is a vague term, considering there are TWO of them.
There's the nice and highly gentrified Piedmont Avenue neighborhood, and then there's the upper-class bedroom enclave and incorporated city within a city of Piedmont, CA.
They are close, and Piedmont Avenue does not in fact take you to Piedmont, well, not really anyway.
Most rentals in the Piedmont hood are apartments and if you're lucky, a unit in a du- or tri-plex. nice hood though, lots of cafes/bars/restaurants and yoga studios.
Almost everything (save for the occasional in-law unit) in Piedmont proper are owner occupied. It rivals Pacific Heights in SF and Mill Valley in Marin for the wealthiest area in the immediate Bay Area.
Either way, both Piedmonts are pretty far from BART, thought Piedmont Ave is closer to MacArthur station.
South on the SF peninsula is always an affordable option. Family friendly areas include Glen Park, San Bruno, MAYBE Excelsior or Visitacion valley, but IMHO those areas are both too far for a commute to Hayward by BART and not really what you want if you're only going to be in the area for maybe a couple years. If you've been here a while and want to buy, then they're better options.
North Oakland (Temescal) and South Berkeley (Near Ashby) are, if you want my opinion, the best options for your situation. Downtown Oakland is also cool...
MacArthur BART gets sketchy, 12th Street and 19th Street City Center options are less so.
Other transit options include AC Transit, and yes, sadly, you need separate passes for BART, MUNI, AC Transit, as well as CalTrain if you'll be on the Peninsula at all.
Also, from North Oakland and/or South Berkeley you can easily (and safely) ride your bike to and from BART.
I used to live in Fruitvale (heart of the "danger zone") and had some pretty tough interactions riding home from BART after midnight on the weekends. dude's trying to buy my bike and hassling me for no good reason other than that i was there.
not to say that there's no crime in the non-danger zones. it's an urban area. there's random acts of moral depravity that can happen anywhere, you know?
Im not afraid of general urban crime. Hell, the danger zone doesn't even bother me. 2 nights ago, I was sitting in my bedroom with the windows open looking out, and saw flashes behind an alley down the street and the sound "pop pop pop pop pop pop pop", then of course cop cars a couple minutes later. And between this place and my old place, I think a total of 3 cops have been killed on blocks I've lived on. As WonderK states, the place that I'll end up picking will be loads better than where I live now (this isn't to say I hate my current neighborhood). I just need something where I don't get panhandled 3 times a day every day (occassional is fine) and where there is some community/cafe/grocery/semi-night life within a walkable distance. Ofcourse getting to the BART is essential, especially for my lady who is coming from Cologne which is a very clean and safe city. So if getting from the Piedmont Ave neighborhood to the BART isn't so easy, then N. Oakland seems to be the must. But you still didn't answer my question concerning cars.
i know plenty of folks who live in Oakland without cars.
AC Transit isn't great, but it's got pretty good coverage. and most of the buses have bike racks. all in all, it's not a bad way to go, and zipcars are pretty common too, for the occasional large grocery trip or whatever.
keep your car if you want (i have mine...) and most places in north oakland will have decent enough street parking if not a driveway.
it's not that getting from Piedmont Ave to BART isn't easy, i mean, it's not HARD, but it's not exactly close proximity.
my feeling on the area mass transit is that if you can live or work near one of them, you cut one link out. i live near BART, so when i used to commute into the city, i could simply ride my bike down the hill, then hop on BART, and THEN begin my crosstown SF busride. if i had to start with a busride too, it would've made the whole affair a bit less tolerable.
there's a fairly robust car-free community here, i just wouldn't know, given that i'm a volkswagen owner.
SBD -- my daugher moved to SF right after school and generally has been stunned by the cost of living there. She sold her car immediately and hasn't seemed to regret that decision once. She generally rides her bike to work and rents a car on those occasions when she really needs four wheels - which seems rare.
Initially, she lived in the Mission District (below 17th Street, slightly west of Mission Street) ... she now lives adjacent Buena Vista Park, near Haight/Ashbury. Her work is located in the downtown area, roughly at the intersection of Market and 1st. She seems to get around quite effortlessly on her bike or on public transporation. She seems quite content with her lifestyle in SF.
Good luck.
Man - Sorry Ive missed this thread for so long. I moved form NY 2 years ago to the SF bay area. I fucking love it here. But I moved here to live in a great city...not the outlying suburbs(the peninsula, parts of Berkeley and Oakland) I call them suburbs b/c some of the communities within are hard to get to and from with out a car.
I live in the Sunset(west side of the city) and work in Berkeley and take public transit everywhere I go. So I travel against the rush hour traffic. Most people dont get why I live in the "expensive city" and dont work there. Basically I love the city life(its not the same in the east bay) more specifically the night life and my friends. As stated earlier BART stops running at Midnight so getting back home in the east bay would be a problem. Most MUNI (SF bus and light rail lines) stop running at 1am. Most AC-Transit (EastBay Bus lines) stop running at 12:30am - But most of the major bus lines have owl hour service running all night long. So getting around all night within either the east bay or sf is definitely doable. I do it all the time.
And to get to why I dont work in SF
1. I love my job.
2. Most of the east bay arch firms are smaller 20-50 peeps (less corperate
3. Most of the eastbay firms are leading the sustainability charge.
4. and this job offered me good money.
As for your not wanting to get panhandle 3 times a day. I cant seem to find a place in California where I wouldnt get panhandled 3 times a day. I am from NY and have this switch in my head when someone is begging me for money that I just ignore them and keep walking. I really dont have the time to hear what everyone excuse is for not having money. Sometimes if ive had a few and I get asked for money I ask them if they take credit cards. that usually shuts them up...and hey I offered to give them money.
Sometimes in the Eastbay it may be hard to find shops and food within walking distance...but most shops and foods are close enough for a ride on the bus.
As mighty said certain communities have a mix of shit going on. Piedmont has a bery nice area and a very bad area. same thing with sf communities the mission can be heaven and can be hell. you can be walking for 4 blocks and pass through a in and out of a shitty neighborhoood.
Shit - Im really busy today(when am I not) But I have to go - Ill chim in later with some more. Hope this is helping.
BTW I sold my truck after moving here - parking sucked!!! And I never drove it!!!
ok, so I was able to secure a job in Berkeley, and now we're in the process to look for a sublet. Our schedule is to move pack up all our stuff and make the move to San Fran in the middle of June, since I'm starting the beginning of July. So far, we've had a hard time finding a sublet that will accept a dog, what a pain. Wish me luck and if you guys hear something or have anymore suggestions, please share the love.
um, can you get me a job?
I've applied to some of the big boys and i'm waiting to hear back (SOM, Gensler, Ellerbe Becket) but I'm not too familiar with the really innovative, exciting, and reimbursing firms in the area. Anyone wanna chime in?
I'm just happy that I've got a job for now, we'll talk about the innovative firms next time around. Is it feasible to safely live in tenderloin? I'm hearing all of these things about the area, but I can't imagine that it's worse than southside chicago right?
Live on the peninsula! I have lived in SF for some time now (Mission/Dolores area...and ABSOLUTELY love it). I have many friends who live in the East Bay and often hear them compaining about the commute. SF is possibly the best city in the United States! Welcome!
What has everyone found to be a good source for apartment searching?
Craig's List ?
i'm scared of the tenderloin. even during the day. but to answer your question: honestly, yeah, it's probably feasible to safely live in the TL. probably.
sfbay.craigslist.org
one of my friends lives on the edge of the tenderloin, a little sketch but cheaper. it's not that bad.
What does everyone think about the Bayview District? Is the commute to downtown daunting? But the bart is right there?
Bayview is "racially diverse and vibrant" (to paraphrase the realtors' language) -- and the new 3rd Street light rail line connects the district to downtown.
Hey I've actually found something in Emeryville, at one of those trendy mixed apartments off of Bay Street. How much is typical for electricity and rest of utilities? The person I spoke with mentioned that on an average from month to month she pays about $25 a month on electricity, and 10 to 15 on water, sewer, and garbage. This seems to be a little bit low, but then again I could be getting gouged. Please shed some light on this.
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