I have fond memories of visiting the playground in city hall's courtyard as a kid. I like the architecture (from the outside) but never experienced the dysfunctional inside. if the ciry can agree to do something like what's pictured below, then the building and plaza may be saved from the greedy developers and the meglomaniac mayor.



Höweler + Yoon's proposal

that is sort of cool

Did I really just hear Fred Kent of People for Public Spaces tell the world that architects have NO place reviewing proposals for a new Boston City Hall because we have no "common sense"?

I kinda hope I did hear that, because if not I just sent a spitting mad email to the wrong person. Though I'd rather eat crow than have someone so much in the public eye malign our entire profession in the way that I think he just did.

decentralized gov't? kinda outta the way for a city hall, isn't it?!? all the way out by ICA? let's make it really convenient and put it by the JFK library.... clowns.

to be completely fair... though the building is quite interesting, the space in front of it is one of the most drab and depressing public spaces ive ever seen. something really needs to be done about that... and this fred kent fellow, i would imagine, is responding to the architects role in creating such a dismal (non) solution...
maybe im wrong lb

Also: I love the notion of making "places for people", I started studying it 23 years ago and feel my practice as an architect has always held use by everyday people to be crucial to success. But this whole idea that buildings should *not* be challenging, should not (like good art) ask us to think about our culture and society and the possibilities of what we can achieve, is ridiculous.

I hate to bring politics into this thread, but the oft-heard commentary when Bush was elected in 2000 was that he seemed like "a regular guy". Hello, I don't want a regular guy to be president of my country, I want an amazingly intelligent, extraordinary leader to be that. I also want my public buildings to reflect something bigger than "easy to use and cheap to build".

Sheesh. I'm pissed.

LB, you are inspired...

I really dislike the plaza in front of this building, and the building is kind of awkward. However to tore it down would be a big mistake, it is a piece of global architectural history (if not a chapter to be amazingly proud of), and history of Boston. The environmental cost would also be high.

I am all for allowing designers to solve this problem. I like the direction that some of the proposals by younger architects I re-linked above for the City Hall, let's continue that line of thinking. Plus, what is to say that people are not going to be saying the same thing about the ICA in a couple of years.

city hall has always been one of my favorite buildings in boston. the plaza, however, has too much brick but i do like it's expanse of open space in an otherwise dense urban fabric. i really hope they refrain from demolition.

i appreciate the show's attempt to balance the perspectives.

Joan Goody spoke clearly and made strong points in favor of allowing design to fix the problems of the building and plaza.
Fred Kent frustrated me as well, icing it with that last common sense comment. He sounded dogmatic, and his points about economic viability sounded like unfounded speculation. Sure, he's very experienced and perhaps in the position to make such speculation, but I'm not convinced that he's right. I'm also not convinced that the first concern with this site should be to increase the tax revenue it generates. It's unfortunate the PPS seems to be promoting this trend of handing more and more public spaces over to private interests.

city hall plaza works great on new years eve when it's packed with 100,000 baastonians watching the fireworks over the haabor... not so good on a sunny summer day without any breezes or a windy winter day.

its a difficult site with a significant grade change.

nice new benches around the perimeter.

the Gov't center T vestibule is an icon that should be preserved (I'm talking bout the concrete truncated pyramid) too.


Fred Kent wants to be number one on the AIA most wanted list. He's been pissing off landscape architects almost as much recently. there was an article about have they crossed the line into practicing landscape architecture without a license recently. I'll post it if I find it.

Who is this Kent person? What is his email address? What's his position? History? Does anyone have the exact quote? I'm also in a letter writing mood today....

Landscape Architecture Magazine:
One Size Rarely Fits All, "Critic at Large," 3/07, pp. 138, 139, 140
and also
In Dubious Battle, "Connections," 3/07, pp. 36, 38, 40-45

if I recall, he pissed off Laurie Olin pretty good.

Residing in Washington, I usually switch over when Radio Boston begins but naturally stayed tuned for today's program. I too was surprised to hear something so predjudiced from Fred Kent. It sounded a lot like those people who said that non-Americans shouldn't be involved in the design of the WTC memorials.

I think most of us are in agreement here in keeping the current city hall structure with various possibilities for renewal and adaption and redevelopment. I'm quite fond of the building myself though I have no doubt it will require as much care as John Belushi to stay viable over the coming decades.

It has a temple-like quality to it that will age spectacularly over centuries. I wouldn't be surprised if several non-architects of ancient Greece were offended by the Parthenon's placement in Anthens and complained that was built with little regard to the individual.

fred kent has probably done good work, preparing the way for enhancements of our built environment overall.

some people gain attention to what they're doing by being provocative. i expect that's a strategy he uses.

we just have to be better, so he doesn't have any ammunition.

we all know (of) the architects he's talking about, right?

Of course it's true that he needs to make his talk provocative so people will pay attention. But why attack architects, the ones who are both highly placed and well-suited to improve public spaces?

And, of course, we know there are some architects still operating under the "huge object in inhumane open space" approach to building. Kent is maligning all of us because it makes his artgument sound sexier. It's childish.

I won't say Pepole for Public Spaces ISN'T taking on an important and valid topic, obviously they are. I'm angry because it's a topic I would love to be able to focus on in my professionla life, and Kent is saying flatout that architects aren't welcome at the table (or LA's, for that matter). I'm angry because he won't acknowledge that architects have been part of the problem in the past but! can now be a huge part of the solution. For chirssake, in my 2nd year design studio - in 1987 - my professors were teaching us about diversity of use, human-scaled spaces, places to stop and rest while watchng the space where others congregate - my entire undergraduate education was focused on maing "spaces for people".

I did recieve an email from Kent in response to the one I sent him. He sounds as if he formed an opinion of architects 40 years while he was an academic and hasn't been willing to change that point of view becuse it would hamper his work to do so. Where did I just read "It's hard to convince a man to see the truth when his livelihood depends on him not seeing it."?

I'll never agree that making yourself look good solely by tearing down others is a valid tactic. And in this particular case I'm finding it hard to shrug off as the rantings of an uninformed dilettante.

rock on, LB. I agree with every comment you've made.

ime too, actually, but i'm trying to feel some empathy with mr kent, too.

some of the pieces of your last post, lb, might be good in a follow-up note to mr kent. engage him in a dialogue that triggers some empathy from himmaybe.

or maybe just send him a link to this thread.

ugh, getting people like kent and kunstler involved with decision making forums is frightening. Let them be pundits, that's fine, but really what have they done that they can bring to decision making? Have they had original ideas, or did they just read all of Duany's and say it much louder?? Senate subcomittees don't consult with Bill O'Reilly or Chris Matthews on the budget, though those guys are outspoken on it. That cities go to clowns like this is upsetting

The Kents and Kunstlers of the world strike me as the kind of granola fogeys who get utterly perplexed and bamboozled at artsy youngsters who think Boston City Hall is "cool"

The Boston City Hall has been the center of City Govenment since the day they recieved their Final Certificate of Occupancy. I really wonder if it is as non functional as it has been made out to be. I think not, Boston is a World Premier City and it wouldn't be if things
weren't happening in City Hall. Back in the early 70's I worked in Boston and made trips from Copley Square to City Hall some times three times a week to drop off drawings or pick up drawings or other assorted papers. I recall this fantastic mass model of the City which occupied the Planning and Zoning Office. I think the Plaza has actually undergone some modifications since the 70's but those changes have not altered its purpose and that is to assemble the masses of people for Public Gatherings such as, Stanley Cup Heros, World Series Baseball Heros, NBA Basketball Heros, and NFLFootball Heros. The City Hall Plaza is to Boston as the Colisium is to Rome.

If your looking for a place to go sit in the Shade go to the Public Gardens, or to the Commons or anywhere along Olmsteds Emerald Park, or the Charles River for that matter.


I always was fond of the stairs at the south side of the building connecting with the old Hay Market and gritty old buildings which are
now vibrant with life. In fact I don't think alot of what happened around City Hall would have ever come to be if it had not been there.
Can you imagine what happens every time there is a large gathering in that plaza to all the little shops and stores in Fanuiel Hall and the surrounding area. Resturants fill up people buy things and life goes on with some poor unappreciative bugger not enjoying life because it is not all the same.

Outside of Le Corbusier and a few Paul Rudolph buildings, most of what gets classified as Brutalism is complete shit.

Höweler + Yoon's proposal is an uneccessary and boring parasite on a really decent building.

I don't care if they move the city hall, but keep the existing building as a nothing more than a monument to how sweet concrete can be. Fuck, they could film Cheers 2 in there! Or maybe Roger Clemens can do a reality show about the Founding Fathers in the plaza.

Although not a resident of Boston, i have experienced the building and it's plaza, especially in the winter.

Although it can get a bit desolate and windy, it is a great big, open public space, and as for the building....

I don't understand why so many people like to hate on Brutalism, just cause it is so much concrete? I mean many of the buildings aren't any more problematic than some of the recent non-contextual staritect buildings of this generation...

Anywho...I must say if the building is going to be altered let it be with a light and understanding hand.

As for Mr. Kent and Kuntsler..

I think many of you are right, there don't really say anything different than what you might find on the pages of Archinect re: criticism of public space and place making...However, they say it with a loud enough voive and to an audience that for the most part thinks architects are all pricks with giant egos...
Personally, i think architects both landscape and non have a major role to play, in the regard but also city planners etc....

The real issue is that Mayor Menino wants a legacy building. He is using public discontent with government center to push for a monument to himself. He hires people like Kent to spin things in his favor.

maybe he should try fixing the fountain in the common first..... its a disgrace and embarrassment to boston

I actually like the building, i think something should be done with the plaza though.

Then again, I'm sure most folks look at Boston city hall and wretch.