As if Sudan didn't have a bad enough reputation with allowing the genocide to in Darfur.
Cuervo,
The name 'Mohammad' is the most common name in the world. I think this has more to do with idolatry rather than name association. There is a much stricter and a much more sensitive interpretation of idol worship in Islam than in Christianity. So they do things differently.
^this^ I find the 'they do things differently' argument quite patronising (perhaps a strong word but it's the best to explain my feelings). It's not like the people in these countries are stupid. They are just as civilised as we are. I'm from the UK but I know, for instance, that the US still uses the death penalty. This does not make the people of the US stupid. In fact, I think a lot of people (I would say majority but I couldn't prove it) object to this practice.
The people condoning beheading and fatwahs are almost always hardliners. They are not representative of the country at large. Doing things differently is not an excuse for reprehensible behaviour such as this.
On that note, there is also some added background to this story. The school in question is one of the rare cases where children of different faiths are taught together. People have been looking for an excuse to close it down for years and perhaps this was the straw to which they could finally grasp. It seems to have worked, too. the school has closed until next year regardless of the outcome of the trial.
The entire episode - and the intolerance at the centre of it - is sickening, really.
You reactionaries need to relax a little. If you read my response carefully, you would understand that I was talking about sensitivity to idolatry in terms of contrasting both religions.
But in reality both religions are very much intertwined -- more so than you can imagine. People who apologize for both Christianity and Islam have been or are equally guilty of bigotry, intolerance, and overzealousness.
i agree that this is media hype (as i stated above) of an isolated group of individuals screaming murder the teacher and not representative of the whole who worship mohammed but that's not an argument for saying that 'they do things differently' is patronizing.
they do things differently and there's nothing wrong with accepting that. just don't read too much into it.
work for idle hands, I'm not exactly sure that you are in any position to be criticizing anyone for supposedly "patronizing" when indeed you're doing exactly that and accusing a religion of "worshiping" Mohammad. Muslims don't worship Mohammad. They worship God. This would be the same if you said that Jews worshiped Moses. This is just an FYI in the event that you actually participate in a civilized discussion about Islam in the future.
Again, I love it how the second, someone reads an over hyped and painfully amateurish CNN article, they instantly become pseudo-experts on Islam even if they are woefully unqualified to even do so much as offer an inkling of opinion.
..and anyway the story has already been pushed way below the nutbar at clinton's campaign office, chicago's annual huge train crash, and RIP Evel Knievel.
i dont think anyones claiming to be an expert on anything... i find that whole situation disgusting and i dont understand it at all. There is no justifying the behavior...
that being said, its not judgment on Islam im passing. its a judgment on extremism. i find this disgusting just as i find pat robertson despicable, and just as im appalled and enraged by Westboro Baptist Church (the god hates fags church who protest the funerals of dead soldiers, claiming Iraq is gods retribution for america's sinful acceptance of homosexuality)
all you hit me on aside from just not liking me personally which is cool cause that's your problem not mine is the fact that i used the word 'worship' archmed.
so, fine, i'm more than happy to accept criticism and indeed ask you what would be a good word to describe the Islamic person's relationship with mohammed. help me out here. i hate to think you just like spitting venom at people for some vain thrill.
The name 'Mohammad' is the most common name in the world. I think this has more to do with idolatry rather than name association. There is a much stricter and a much more sensitive interpretation of idol worship in Islam than in Christianity. So they do things differently.
wait don't answer.. i clearly used worship cause you had just used it.
ie, mohammed has to do with idolatry which has to do with idol worship.
so stop attacking me personally. in fact, just don't address me at all anymore.
Idle Hands, this is a message board. I neither hate anyone nor do I dislike anyone. I have no idea why you would think that.
However, it would tickle me to death if you could type phonetically from now on so that I could understand what it is that you're trying to say.
I agree with lletdownl that such behavior is appalling just like that particularly nauseating story about the Saudi woman who is being punished for being raped.
i just want you to explain to me how you can interpret naming a bear mohammed and then it becomes an 'idol' to be 'worshipped' in your eyes and then 10 minutes later label me ignorant with non-valid arguments for saying i 'accused a religion of "worshipping" mohammed' and then going on to explain how they don't. if you were attacking me on something else you didn't make that clear apparently.
it would tickle me to death if you could give a straight answer.
A few years ago, I really looked at my name. It roughly translates into something like 'purely beloved.' It helps me get through the day sometimes. It's just my personal opinion, but I think it's going to take a lot of people learning a lot of personal self esteem that comes from within if we're going to see the next half of the century.
And yes, I agree, if someone's hungry, or tired, or a bit too ambitious; they can be swayed for the worse.
just to address the latin america use of jesus as a name:
in spanish, jesus is usually referred to as jesucristo, or jesus christ. therefore, it's not really "blasphemous" to them to name their children jesus, since it's just a name. the "christ" part is what denotes him as a messiah. (or so i believe. i could be wrong).
dont know whats the damn problem naming it... teddy bear is cute:P .. aint religion suppose to teach ppl good?? bad impression from those religion wanting to kill ppl.. shame on them
i don't know i'm waiting for Archmed to respond to all of this.
he/she has already made blanket assumptions about all of us that we shouldn't be claiming to be experts on a subject just because we interject an opinion about it, has labeled this an evidentely uncivilized discussion about islam, and then labeled me and possibly all of us by default 'woefully unqualified' to have an opinion on this. ouch! then to say i'm patronizing someone. What? Who? I disagreed with 'oldenvirginia' on one thing, agreed on the other. i stated that. that's it. how is that patronizing. yeah i emphatically said 'they do things differently (from christians)' is a truism regarding muslims but guess what, as someone who was raised christian and raised by christians i lately find myself so removed from christianity (which i am very much not ignorant about) that i could use 'they do things differently' to apply to myself and christians at large. its human nature to accept and understand differences as it should be.
so anyway, archmed therefore (who for some reason has yet to back up any of his/her argument with factual information. hmmm.. that's the primary cure for the very ignorance of which he/she so giddily speaks) should be able to address every one of these issues. yet hasn't. why? i'm the first person to admit i'm ignorant about many subjects. we all are. but the cure for ignorance is knowledge. where is that knowledge, archmed?
so, archmed: the only real opinion you've had of your own (that wasn't restating what someone else said) is to say "this" i assume meaning the event in question, is about "idolatry" and "idol worship". it is? i hadn't heard that. where did you get that from? i thought it was simply about using the name mohammed in vain and insulting islam. if it isn't and you know otherwise ...TELL ME/ALL OF US SO!! regardless, seems to me that if naming a bear by a certain religious name that bear can become an idol of islamic worship there's a whole lot of meaning attached to that name. maybe 'worshipping' mohammed was the wrong term but my post would have been the same if i had said 'regard with high esteem the prophet mohammed' . i got worship from you alone. no 'painfully amateurish' cnn article was needed. but again, please explain. i'm listening.
also, you filled that one post (just that one, i'm not going to count the few from past discussions) with so much spite directed at me personally i consider you to indeed 'dislike' me. you call me ignorant for one opinion, you attack my writing style (anyone else having a problem understanding what i'm saying?, i thought i wrote very well.) am i over reacting? maybe. someone on the outside is welcome to interject if they think i'm being overly sensitive. none of this bothers me because i simply don't have time to concern myself with people who behave this way but Archmed.. YOU need to be confronted with this once in a while. you're behaving like a vicious person... you're making me vicious in response which i don't like.. if i truly believed that i offended you i would first ask you to just say. 'you hurt me with your comments' and i'll apologize in an instant.. and mean it. (i don't believe i did, no one that uses 'goddammit' in anger better ever pretend to be religious), if you're angered that i used your words in my own post than say: 'please don't take my words out of context'. but your contributions to this topic have been awkward and, again, vicious and not that useful, and then backpedaling and trying to say how you like everyone and you're very agreeable blah, blah.. kind of transparent dude.... try to improve and maybe my opinion of you will change because at the end of the day i could care less if we disagree on every single subject out there as long as neither resorts to undermining the other's opinions. otherwise i have no interest in ever being in a discussion or argument with you. its a waste of my time and frankly it makes you uninteresting to me.
knowledge is power. feigning knowledge or even withholding knowledge for the sake of undermining others' knowledge is weakness... is that phonetic enough? are we on the same page now?
i just needed to get this out. anyone is welcome to jump in and say 'you're wrong' 'you're out of line' 'Archmed's a great person and you're not'.. whatever. i'm open to that.. am i missing something? i'm open to hearing that too.
and for the record: sorry i quoted you Archmed. sorry i made an incorrect statement about islam. sorry. truly.
Just as a side question: I've noticed that Americans say 'I could care less' whereas over here in the UK we say 'I couldn't care less'.
I don't understand your US version...surely if you could care less that means that you're not at your minimum of caring (which is surely the purpose of the statement?)
The funny thing about this whole story is that a boy in the class named Mohammad wanted to name the bear after himself. It had absolutely nothing to do with the prophet.
I'm not saying anything here about religion at all. I think that mob mentality and group think are both to blame. Not Islam.
can someone please explain to me....
why they are so damn crazy???
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa/11/30/sudan.bears/index.html
And there are some who say we should intervene militarily in Darfur. People that fucked in the head scare me.
media hype.
now if you'll excuse me i need to read up on britney spears' rumored pregnancy.
All I can think of are all the men named "Jesus" in Latin America. I wonder if William Donahue wants those men killed...
As if Sudan didn't have a bad enough reputation with allowing the genocide to in Darfur.
Cuervo,
The name 'Mohammad' is the most common name in the world. I think this has more to do with idolatry rather than name association. There is a much stricter and a much more sensitive interpretation of idol worship in Islam than in Christianity. So they do things differently.
...like cutting people's heads off
my vote for the understatement of the century
^this^ I find the 'they do things differently' argument quite patronising (perhaps a strong word but it's the best to explain my feelings). It's not like the people in these countries are stupid. They are just as civilised as we are. I'm from the UK but I know, for instance, that the US still uses the death penalty. This does not make the people of the US stupid. In fact, I think a lot of people (I would say majority but I couldn't prove it) object to this practice.
The people condoning beheading and fatwahs are almost always hardliners. They are not representative of the country at large. Doing things differently is not an excuse for reprehensible behaviour such as this.
On that note, there is also some added background to this story. The school in question is one of the rare cases where children of different faiths are taught together. People have been looking for an excuse to close it down for years and perhaps this was the straw to which they could finally grasp. It seems to have worked, too. the school has closed until next year regardless of the outcome of the trial.
The entire episode - and the intolerance at the centre of it - is sickening, really.
You reactionaries need to relax a little. If you read my response carefully, you would understand that I was talking about sensitivity to idolatry in terms of contrasting both religions.
But in reality both religions are very much intertwined -- more so than you can imagine. People who apologize for both Christianity and Islam have been or are equally guilty of bigotry, intolerance, and overzealousness.
I love how the second a person reads an article on CNN, they instantly become "experts" on Islam, the Arab world, and the Middle East.
i agree that this is media hype (as i stated above) of an isolated group of individuals screaming murder the teacher and not representative of the whole who worship mohammed but that's not an argument for saying that 'they do things differently' is patronizing.
they do things differently and there's nothing wrong with accepting that. just don't read too much into it.
work for idle hands, I'm not exactly sure that you are in any position to be criticizing anyone for supposedly "patronizing" when indeed you're doing exactly that and accusing a religion of "worshiping" Mohammad. Muslims don't worship Mohammad. They worship God. This would be the same if you said that Jews worshiped Moses. This is just an FYI in the event that you actually participate in a civilized discussion about Islam in the future.
Again, I love it how the second, someone reads an over hyped and painfully amateurish CNN article, they instantly become pseudo-experts on Islam even if they are woefully unqualified to even do so much as offer an inkling of opinion.
..and anyway the story has already been pushed way below the nutbar at clinton's campaign office, chicago's annual huge train crash, and RIP Evel Knievel.
i dont think anyones claiming to be an expert on anything... i find that whole situation disgusting and i dont understand it at all. There is no justifying the behavior...
that being said, its not judgment on Islam im passing. its a judgment on extremism. i find this disgusting just as i find pat robertson despicable, and just as im appalled and enraged by Westboro Baptist Church (the god hates fags church who protest the funerals of dead soldiers, claiming Iraq is gods retribution for america's sinful acceptance of homosexuality)
Evel Knievel is dead? Damn!
all you hit me on aside from just not liking me personally which is cool cause that's your problem not mine is the fact that i used the word 'worship' archmed.
so, fine, i'm more than happy to accept criticism and indeed ask you what would be a good word to describe the Islamic person's relationship with mohammed. help me out here. i hate to think you just like spitting venom at people for some vain thrill.
wait don't answer.. i clearly used worship cause you had just used it.
ie, mohammed has to do with idolatry which has to do with idol worship.
so stop attacking me personally. in fact, just don't address me at all anymore.
Idle Hands, this is a message board. I neither hate anyone nor do I dislike anyone. I have no idea why you would think that.
However, it would tickle me to death if you could type phonetically from now on so that I could understand what it is that you're trying to say.
I agree with lletdownl that such behavior is appalling just like that particularly nauseating story about the Saudi woman who is being punished for being raped.
Living in Gin, I thought he died a while ago.
Goddammit, Idle Hands. I have no idea what you're even talking about. I'm not even sure if we're on the same page.
I was criticizing you not for using a particular word, but for making a claim that isn't true. It's all about simplicity!
I have no problem blaming muslims. Theyre fucking insane.
I'm sorry. I thought only people with MORE than two brain cells were allowed to post here.
my friend in high school was named jesus....hey-sus
i know a few guys named mohammid
people get alllllll ryled up over stuff........ but then again how many times has your boy g.w.bizzle used the term "god" in his attacks/etc...
i have 98cents left now
b
type phonetically? that makes no sense.
i just want you to explain to me how you can interpret naming a bear mohammed and then it becomes an 'idol' to be 'worshipped' in your eyes and then 10 minutes later label me ignorant with non-valid arguments for saying i 'accused a religion of "worshipping" mohammed' and then going on to explain how they don't. if you were attacking me on something else you didn't make that clear apparently.
it would tickle me to death if you could give a straight answer.
A few years ago, I really looked at my name. It roughly translates into something like 'purely beloved.' It helps me get through the day sometimes. It's just my personal opinion, but I think it's going to take a lot of people learning a lot of personal self esteem that comes from within if we're going to see the next half of the century.
And yes, I agree, if someone's hungry, or tired, or a bit too ambitious; they can be swayed for the worse.
just to address the latin america use of jesus as a name:
in spanish, jesus is usually referred to as jesucristo, or jesus christ. therefore, it's not really "blasphemous" to them to name their children jesus, since it's just a name. the "christ" part is what denotes him as a messiah. (or so i believe. i could be wrong).
We're so sane and pure in the U.S. we do shit like this instead:
Mom: Web Hoax Led Girl to Kill Herself
And follow it up with this:
Megan Had It Coming
dont know whats the damn problem naming it... teddy bear is cute:P .. aint religion suppose to teach ppl good?? bad impression from those religion wanting to kill ppl.. shame on them
what is, meta?
i don't know i'm waiting for Archmed to respond to all of this.
he/she has already made blanket assumptions about all of us that we shouldn't be claiming to be experts on a subject just because we interject an opinion about it, has labeled this an evidentely uncivilized discussion about islam, and then labeled me and possibly all of us by default 'woefully unqualified' to have an opinion on this. ouch! then to say i'm patronizing someone. What? Who? I disagreed with 'oldenvirginia' on one thing, agreed on the other. i stated that. that's it. how is that patronizing. yeah i emphatically said 'they do things differently (from christians)' is a truism regarding muslims but guess what, as someone who was raised christian and raised by christians i lately find myself so removed from christianity (which i am very much not ignorant about) that i could use 'they do things differently' to apply to myself and christians at large. its human nature to accept and understand differences as it should be.
so anyway, archmed therefore (who for some reason has yet to back up any of his/her argument with factual information. hmmm.. that's the primary cure for the very ignorance of which he/she so giddily speaks) should be able to address every one of these issues. yet hasn't. why? i'm the first person to admit i'm ignorant about many subjects. we all are. but the cure for ignorance is knowledge. where is that knowledge, archmed?
so, archmed: the only real opinion you've had of your own (that wasn't restating what someone else said) is to say "this" i assume meaning the event in question, is about "idolatry" and "idol worship". it is? i hadn't heard that. where did you get that from? i thought it was simply about using the name mohammed in vain and insulting islam. if it isn't and you know otherwise ...TELL ME/ALL OF US SO!! regardless, seems to me that if naming a bear by a certain religious name that bear can become an idol of islamic worship there's a whole lot of meaning attached to that name. maybe 'worshipping' mohammed was the wrong term but my post would have been the same if i had said 'regard with high esteem the prophet mohammed' . i got worship from you alone. no 'painfully amateurish' cnn article was needed. but again, please explain. i'm listening.
also, you filled that one post (just that one, i'm not going to count the few from past discussions) with so much spite directed at me personally i consider you to indeed 'dislike' me. you call me ignorant for one opinion, you attack my writing style (anyone else having a problem understanding what i'm saying?, i thought i wrote very well.) am i over reacting? maybe. someone on the outside is welcome to interject if they think i'm being overly sensitive. none of this bothers me because i simply don't have time to concern myself with people who behave this way but Archmed.. YOU need to be confronted with this once in a while. you're behaving like a vicious person... you're making me vicious in response which i don't like.. if i truly believed that i offended you i would first ask you to just say. 'you hurt me with your comments' and i'll apologize in an instant.. and mean it. (i don't believe i did, no one that uses 'goddammit' in anger better ever pretend to be religious), if you're angered that i used your words in my own post than say: 'please don't take my words out of context'. but your contributions to this topic have been awkward and, again, vicious and not that useful, and then backpedaling and trying to say how you like everyone and you're very agreeable blah, blah.. kind of transparent dude.... try to improve and maybe my opinion of you will change because at the end of the day i could care less if we disagree on every single subject out there as long as neither resorts to undermining the other's opinions. otherwise i have no interest in ever being in a discussion or argument with you. its a waste of my time and frankly it makes you uninteresting to me.
knowledge is power. feigning knowledge or even withholding knowledge for the sake of undermining others' knowledge is weakness... is that phonetic enough? are we on the same page now?
i just needed to get this out. anyone is welcome to jump in and say 'you're wrong' 'you're out of line' 'Archmed's a great person and you're not'.. whatever. i'm open to that.. am i missing something? i'm open to hearing that too.
and for the record: sorry i quoted you Archmed. sorry i made an incorrect statement about islam. sorry. truly.
Just as a side question: I've noticed that Americans say 'I could care less' whereas over here in the UK we say 'I couldn't care less'.
I don't understand your US version...surely if you could care less that means that you're not at your minimum of caring (which is surely the purpose of the statement?)
aah well...
Ha. Good question. I found this:
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ico1.htm
The funny thing about this whole story is that a boy in the class named Mohammad wanted to name the bear after himself. It had absolutely nothing to do with the prophet.
I'm not saying anything here about religion at all. I think that mob mentality and group think are both to blame. Not Islam.
naming myself mohammad = to call myself a god? = insulting mohammad?
whats the damn connections these people
shut up about the killing at least could earn my respect toward this religion.. now is just a total shame to know this kinda religion exist
Islam needs a better PR firm
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