holy crap that's wide open! expand on your idea please.

Peter Zumthor's is a classic example. cud u give some thought on wat kinda implications wud be an outcome if i used graphics and media technology keeping the same philosophy.

What kinda studies should i orient myself into to understand this concept better?

i think zumthor's project is a good one through which to understand phenomenology IF YOU VISIT IT. or at the very least you can imagine, in an academic way, what the sensory experience might be like.

i honestly don't think use of graphics and media technology will help you much in exploring phenomenological issues. these are mental and visual only, without the other haptic input required to consider experience or 'phenomena'. you need to read more and understand more fully what phenomenology means and what you hope to glean through an exploration of its application to architecture as you develop your project.

I agree with Steven...if anything, graphics and media technology are basically the opposite of phenomenology. These above mentioned things are basically applique / fodder that really wont enhance the phenomenological experience of the building

Steven Ward - Professional Thesis Advisor.

I am always impressed on how quickly and thoroughly you respond these types of posts especially with people who offer no thoughts of their own.

are we assuming that the media is all visual? i think media..sound
specifically could aid in the senory experience...

i would concur though that phenomenology is far more about materials,
lighting, wind..etc. that tend towards all of the senses..and i don't
typically relate that to things that are false representations of the same.

read some zumthor or pallasma...holl, gomez, and pallasma wrote a
book together back when i was in school on this topic. and pallasma
has written several articles that tend towards what i think phenomenology
is more about.

if you're just interested in graphics and media i'd look at more stuff
like Rem and his minions..and then call my thesis anti-phenomenology
or something like that. maybe 'towards a new falseness'

even bust out some Merleau-Ponty

throw in some lasers and you are set

you may want to look at the work of Mark Fischer www.stufish.com

he designs most of the major touring rock shows which have turned into all sensory encompasing events

larslarson..."towards a new falseness / the role of visual media in developping architectural phenomenology"...Brilliant!

steven, you are a saint!

nah, just a busybody.

if you are talking about phenomonology you must take out the metaphor, the simile the analogy and get to the thing. ie the building.

Simples you are right. Steve is really spontaneous!

vado retro make that a little simpler to comprehend> may be a li'l illuistrative.

larslarson..."towards a new falseness .... is certainly a point of interest. isnt that giving phenomenology a hypothetical dimension?

vado said basically...cut out all the foo-foo b.s. and get to the heart
of the building...what makes a building real..rather than what
ornaments it...

and sorry steven..but i don't really see you as being spontaneous..
(i see you as more of a planner, well thought out kind of guy)
and i'm unclear as to what that has to do with sainthood.

falseness is sort of the opposite of phenomenology.

well.. there's another aspect to this whole program... ie if it would function as a system catering to multiple genre of music? two opposites like rock and opera?

there have been rock operas...

SW, will you be my thesis advisor?

yes. can you take it?

QUEEEEENNNNN!

i wrote a rock opera in high school. it was about a farmer who was abducted by aliens. it was called "Probed".

im talkin about two opposite situations like rock concerts that are so jampacked and usually happen in open grounds contrary to what it is with operas which have a totally contrasting ambience associated with it... Can a single system be designed to facilitate the two? or should i concentrate on augmenting one to its best?

i think if you are going to use a branch of philosophy as a jumping off point you should look for the appropriate building typology to support the philosophy.

This paper is starting to almost sound like fun: phenomenology, lasers, QUEEN!..

so this is what Grad School is like?!..I should go.

p.s shouldn't you be throwing some "Foucault" in there somehwere?

appropriate for a rock venue only if you pronounce it /fu'-kal/.

Steven is a saint when it comes to his patience in providing valuable insight into so many "thesis" threads! i don't understand "carola's" spontaneous comment!

lars, i hope you do know that my comment to you (at 11:58am) was sarcastic...


carola...there is a lot of cynicism/sarcasm around here...however, LarsLarson and StevenWard have offered some helpful comments; i personally think you should read some heidegger and some pallasmaa, before you start thinking about applying media and assigning analogies to architecture under the banner of phenomenology.

steven misses grad school and misses teaching. i certainly don't hang out here 'cause i don't have enough to do.

i had to do some running around today and i was stopped at a light near the iupui campus (that's indiana university/purdue university at indianapolis) and there were some very healthy looking coeds crossin the street in front of me. that's what i miss. talk about your phenomonology...

Vado, that's the only thing that got me through summer school this year.

simples..
yeah i got the sarcasm...my 'falseness' idea was also intended
as such...it is wednesday...although why you'd want to limit
sarcasm to one day of the week is beyond me.

i also agree with simples that carola should probably do some
reading...

i think it's too easy to use a word like phenomenology...but
harder to make a building that truly uses it.

so far the thesis sounds like it's going off in a million different
directions and that there isn't really any meat there...although
there eventually could be.

i mean the rock vs. opera idea is possible...but the spaces
used for those kinds of shows don't have to be disimilar...there
are a lot of examples of theaters that can be transformed for
different performance typologies/crowds/seating arrangements
etc. capacities of these venues are the only limiting factor i guess..
i.e. a rock show in an sports arena is probably not a good venue
for an opera perse.

i think you should look at the ideas of phenomenology and
try to build a program/thesis around that...i don't think you need
more ideas before you really figure out what kind of building is
best experienced...zumthor's spa is a perfect example...i think
a concert hall/rock arena would be a better program for a completely
different idea...but that's just me.

What if your thesis presentation consisted primarily of textures, smells, sounds, and maybe some supporting perspective views of your project? No plans, sections, or other 'abstract' drawings. THAT might be a way to communicate an idea about the experience of the project.

The project itself would have to go even further somehow. Phenomenology isn't only the touchy-feely aspect of 'the thing', as vado so nicely put it, but how your brain processes the messages the thing presents. How do you make meaning out of your sensory experience of the thing?

And rfuller didn't answer my question...

SW, I can take it...but you must be patient. Thesis is 2 years away for me.

aren't those explanatory drawings sort of required to present
the project to someone who knows nothing about it?..and
i think one of the best ways to create emotion through architecture
is the section...i think the idea is interesting. a thesis without
traditional drawings..or with a lot less of them..

isn't a perspective also a fairly abstract drawing? i mean unless you
can somehow represent a full periphery of human vision..

maybe the thesis could be a model created for a game like quake
or the like..where you'd be able to walk through spaces and hear
and such....be able to fall etc.

steve holl an friends did a nice littel booklet with a+u that offers insight on phenomenology. it is cryptic poetic in places, like reading louis kahn, but dead simple as approach. some of the diagrams are bound to be useful too (he offers examples of making plans from "experiential" perspectives, etc)

precedent is important to set context (and to show how exactly you are adding to debate in a way that no one has done so far, which is impt for thesis) so worth reading a bit just to get started, then focus on one aspect that can be tested and discussed without getting yelled at for being too broad...

as far as rock and opera go, i saw lenny kravitz at opera house in japan and was the best live concert ever. acoustics were not made for rock but they were so much better than the arena shows i went to see back in canada. AND i could see the band perfectly　cuz of that whole opera seating thing. was brilliant. had nothing to do with phenomenology, but musically was seventh heaven.

walking slowly through the fields....

slowly slowly through the fields...

you're right on, of course, lars: a perspective is also abstract. but it's closer to suggesting a reality than orthographic projections. and the abstract nature of them is why i suggested that they simply support the other materials.

a game might be a good way to present it. but that would be a huge step. even quilian's representations in second life, though they're much better than anything else i've seen there, don't have the sophistication of representations we're used to seeing outside the game environment. i don't think many students could get to that level of proficiency over the course of thesis.

1:1 representations, even if they're only of a small piece of the project serving as stand-in for the whole - synecdochical, in school language - might serve to communicate best the tactile and sensory information impt in the project. but that could get expensive.

...but musically was seventh heaven. ...or beyond the seventh sky, jump?

i was thinking about the phenomenology of a rock concert as i drove home with the music loud last night and it occurred to me that there may be something in it that could be used. some way to heighten or otherwise draw attention away from the obvious sensory messages and toward the less obvious ones: the feel of the amplified vibrations inside your body, telegraphing from the floor into your feet; the smell of pot, sweat, and that particularly indescribable piquant not-quite-smell-but-sensation of smoke machine smoke; the closeness of other people in a crowded general admission show, with the recognition of strangers' invasion of your personal space; the weight of clothes drenched with perspiration....

the "steven holl and friends" book is called Questions of Perception and features not only Holl but Juhani Pallasmaa and Alberto Perez-Gomez (good friends to have, and Juhani can drink you under the table. really)

It really is an excellent book for this sort of thing.

you may also want to check out Bernhard Leitner's SOUND:SPACE projects.

If phenomenology in architecture is understood as enriching the experience of space - then the idea of the uncanny, unheimlich or extra-ordinary is quite helpful. Making one aware of the environment and its effects through introducing foreign elements, compositions or by removals of the ordinary. This is maybe something of a sideline concerning pheneomenological architecture, as its often perceived as architecture that amplifies phenomena - making anything that can be sensed stronger, turning up the volume.

Reading Goldhagen's book on Kahn - "Kahn's situated modernism" made me think of this device - disrupting expectations and ordinariness - as somehow phenomenological.

just a thought. 2c.

speaking of sensory experience and lenny kravitz, my good buddy curtis henry used to work for vh1. he told me he had to mic lenny for an interview that was gonna happen and that lenny smelled extra ripe.

speaking of sensory experience and lenny kravitz, my good buddy curtis henry used to work for vh1. he told me he had to mic lenny for an interview that was gonna happen and that lenny smelled extra ripe.

i've heard the same about sting. like so bad it was hard to get near him. i think those guys refrain from bathing on purpose while they're on tour so that people don't bother them as much.

steven...
i agree in general that a thesis doesn't generally get to the level
where you could create a game that would be well drawn...

but i have trouble thinking how perspectives alone would document
the project...i think the feeling of walking through a space would be
the most important...the actual movement..not stills. the one to one
would be nice too.

penn state has a program where they've been trying to do will virtual
reality for years...they have a whole room where images are projected
onto three screens and you sort of walk through the spaces..i
believe it's projected from behind..so no shadows and the like.

maybe what this would call for is a different type of plan/section..
similar to miralles' drawings...but with materials...maybe drawings
that are more about path and the experience of walking through a
space...smell boxes or the like as well..

with your experience of the rock concert..was there really anything
about the space that created those sensory experiences? they
all seem to be about other people and sound which could happen
in pretty much any space. shouldn't a thesis concentrate more on
the space and the architecture rather than these sort of hyperreal
experiences? i guess i'm wondering if it's more interesting to have
experiences that are duplicatable or those that are singular moments
in time.

your comments are all right on, lars. and i don't know how to respond to them at the moment. the best i can offer is that the point of my description wasn't the experiences a la carte but this:


some way to heighten or otherwise draw attention away from the obvious sensory messages and toward the less obvious ones...,

possibly meaning that there would be some sort of intervention which changed the focus from the in-your-face elements of the experience to the more subtle ones. i don't know.

--

helsinki's thoughts, specifically the part about the uncanny, unheimlich or extra-ordinary reminded me of writings on 'strange-making' as a way of exaggerating/highlighting certain elements over others. who was that? i know that barthes wrote about it, but i think someone else explored it first....

Experimenting with new/unconventional drawing-documenting methods is always fun & nice, but for me they are often too tied to another kind of architecture - creating polemical, critical stances and viewpoints - Rather than focusing on expeience or the senses. maybe the most encompassing technique of representation for phenomenological architecture is writing (would explain Pallasmaa's strong text vs. sucky architecture...)

Experimenting with the program... Rock concerts and opera-performances - might make the original goal of the thesis harder to attain. Thinking of architect's like Holl, who are openly phenomenological in their production, but are still (repeatedly) examining the sensing of light and touch as "pure phenomena" without the intrusion of program. In his projects, the actual use of space is arbitrarily suitable or unsuitable for the architecture that he creates - mainly concerned with experience.

beautifully stated, helsinki.

the comment about holl reminds me to remind carolawinnie what i usually remind people considering thesis:

this isn't about just this project being the most impt thing you'll ever do, because it probably isn't. it doesn't have to be perfect.

a more useful goal is to make your thesis a jumping-off point for things you think you'll continue to pursue throughout your career.

you're setting the stage for the development of a body of work and - if you're going to work immediately after graduation - it might be the last time you get to think really hard about what YOU want out of architecture for a while. make it something worth coming back to explore later.

when i came out of undergrad i was practically morbid over how poorly i thought my thesis project lived up to my thesis document and my personal goals. i'm pleased to say now that my undergrad thesis became a sort of inspiration for how i look at most of the work i do (at least those projects in which i get to set some of the design agenda) and that it fed directly into my masters thesis, which has also become a great touchstone in my professional work.

you may come up with some great solutions, but you're not going to 'solve' your thesis this year.

today's students are very lucky. they can come on to a forum like archinect and actually get feedback from thoughtful dedicated and passionate people.

vado..very true..just the internet itself is such a valuable resource to gather information...what happened to library stack and index cards?

i wrote this on a different thread, but how long until libraries become less of a hall of wisdom, and more of a social event?