nambla

national association of marlon brando look-alikes?

I can't resist a chance to post something about nambla. Sorry, tk.

On a serious note, I'm a member of many of those things too, but have you ever tried political volunteering? You'll meet a lot of lawyers that way.

treekiller: Your list of current associations is exhausting (in a good way). How do you find time to be an active member in all of them?

old fogey makes a lot of good points.

despite the animosity that it seems to recieve, i think being part of the greek system as an undergrad can be a handy tool. it's odd how some of the old fratertnity connections can come in handy at times. not many architects in fraternties, but plenty of socially savvy business & political types. of course, unless you're will ferrell or luke wilson (circa "old school") then this is really more of a suggestion for the kids.

also, if you can afford it, i'd suggest flying first class (especially international)...plenty of potential clients up in the front of the plane.

oldfoge, your comments are probably the most thought out and in-depth posts on the profession on here, thank you for taking the time. archinect should bring you on as an editor. so much of what you wrote is like duh, but at the same time it's the things we forget to remember.

why rob banks? cause that's where the money is.

OF has a lot of good points. i would say, you first need to ask yourself WHO you want as your clients. tailor half of your marketing / networking towards that group of people. then tailor the other half towards marketing at large.

if you really don't want to redo bathrooms in regency style, don't spend all your time hanging with the gents and ladies at the local heritage society. but don't avoid it completely either, if you like it.

another small point: MAKE FRIENDS WITH YOUR (GOOD) CONSULTANTS AND CONTRACTORS. especially if you want to do residential work.

lady wants a new house, she may call you...she may call a contractor, she may even call a structural engineer. make sure that they mention YOUR name when they tell her that she needs an architect.

and the alumni clubs, you never know.

church, if that's your thing.

+1 to Old Fogey (as always - when are we getting the Seattle archinect crew together for beers?)

TK- You need to stop inbreeding with other architects & designers. You'll get no project leads or clients there. We do almost zero marketing. All our work comes from word of mouth from our current and former clients. Our largest client base seems to come from the private school that our principal's kids attend...

man, ya'll are being harsh on my professional development activities as an 'intern'. I'm trying to feed my mind before I go public. gotta get those registration tests under the bridge so I can lawfully represent myself as an 'architect' or 'scaper' without fear.


Olfogey- I'll second that nomination to upstairs at archinect. your advice is always welcome!

I agree with going for social organizations-you wouldn't believe the contacts available where other professionals play: hockey, cycling, basketball, golf, even hunting for those of you in less urban areas. I think it helps to show that you are a person with a life (tough for we architects, i know). The tip about making friends with the GOOD subs and contractors is golden. They often get to the client first who askes them to recommend an architect.

You can always get in good with a client you currently have and steal them away. That's how I've seen most firms start-up, although in a tight archi community you can burn some bridges that way.

When you think of a firm name, make sure it starts with the letter "a." You wouldn't believe how many people just open the yellow pages and call the first architect on the list.

As a business owner you'll get invited to community events all the time. Chamber of commerce and other organizations put on all kinds of events, like the always available "charity fundraiser." Participate in those. Make a donation that puts your name in the public eye.

There's also civic organizations like Rotary, Lions, etc. Join and become active. Great way to get face time with the upper eschelon of civic society.

However, the one most important thing I've noticed in my short time within this profession is happy clients bring in new clients. Get one good happy cash cow of a client and the dividends will come in eventually.

best single way to get good work: do good work

start a part-time gig at the local print shop which a lot of architects use. When you see project drawings, approach the client directly and tell them you could do it for much cheaper.
oh forget it, i have nothing valuable to say....

I cast away alot of those social things cause it does take a great deal of time an well the political agendas don't really fit my style. I came to this decision a few years back. I do have one organization I'm strongly involved with. It is a Non-Profit and the only political agenda is to provide the very best services for the clients. It is a local chapter of the ARC aka American Retarded Citizens Association. I was ask to be part of their board of directors because they had hopes of building a mixed use administrative office building/program space for people with both physical and developmental challanges. I have been working with this group
for six years and I can honestly say the people involved are all deeply concerned individuals who firmly believe in our motto:
"Community for All" We have over 200 clients and a budget which is in the neighbor hood of 5 million dollars a year. We own or rent 30 transportation vechiles. We have raised nearly two million dollars during the past three years as a capital campaign for our new building which we have made our home base for the past year. I have been the Chairman of the Board of Directors for the past two years. I would say go find a local agency which is located in your
city or local and get involved. For everything I have given I have recieved ten fold.

Your efforts to help those who are metally challanged can be only seen as a positive thing in your community. It has opened doors to the business community I would have never been able to do any other way. It has opened doors on the State level that I would have never been able to in any other way. It has opened doors in city hall that I would have never been able to do any other way.

We are a very community involved organization so there is a great deal of direct contact with people from all walks of life. Our board of directors has fifteen members and I can say they will never say no when you ask for there assistance be it fund raising, to lobbying the state legislature.

I heard that NAMBLA was swallowed up by the Catholic Church

"swallowed up"... hee hee.

Great choice of words mdler!

OF, check out the resurrected seattle archinect summit thread.

BRANDING, how u want to position urself in the market, what kind of clients u will be serving...

that's the first thing to consider when ppl start selling their products/open restaurants....etc.

if u ain't got style, it doesn't matter how many potential clients u will meet, cos they will forget about u in no time.

I am reminded of a Young, Fabulous, and Broke episode of The Suze Orman Show. One of Suze's guests asked her about the value of social networking events in terms of career-building pay-off. Her advice was to avoid the events that you need to pay for and instead invest the time working more at your current job as a means of career advancement.

I agree to some extent, but there is definitely the risk of working TOO much, especially in our profession. However, I think it is, in most instances, better to spend time at something you KNOW will give you a return (extra project coordination, extra research, extra review, etc.) rather than pay money to stand around eating hors d'œuvres with people who may lead to more dead-ends.

And then there's Archinect, which I think is a good way to meet other architects who are not in direct competition with you for clients. :)

one of the things i was thinking about doing after i get licensed, is to do a neighborhood walk, a meet and greet, introduce myself to those around me and try to establish connections that way - as well as everything that fogey said - kind of like a door to door salesman or a politician would do, probably not great analogies but you get the gist. becides, i have decided to start training to run a marathon by the time i turn 40 and will start training in late May. kill two birds.

I have been mulling Old Fogey's comments over. I agree wholeheartedly with most of what he says with one exception.

Yes the AIA is a professional organization made up of competitors. However, I think it is valuable to know others in the profession. Networking among architects will help you learn the local architectural landscape and culture. If you are an employee and know lots of people in other firms, they can be valuable should you lose your job. Also, you can take a "know thine enemy" approach to it and use knowledge about other firms to help define your own goals within your market.

I am on an AIA committee and of the 20 people I've met through it, so far, only one is a direct competitor for my market. I do custom residential, and my hope is that an architect who works for a hospital design specialty firm might refer me if they get a lead on a house because they are very unlikely to do it themselves.

I totally agree, Old Fogey. The true marketing needs to be directed at clients, not peers.

We don't do the W/MBE thing simply because private residential clients don't use those standards. At this point we aren't going after any kind of public work.

i don't know if it is the same in North America, but here it is normal to make the rounds of a neighbourhood before construction begins to let people know how long the work is going to go on, apologise for inconvenience, and show the kind of building that is going to go up in the near future...usually offering cake as part of the deal...this is a good way to do pr in a market that we are already active, and a chance to meet lots of potential clients without coming across as salesmen.

apart from that experience, what OF writes above is pretty much how it works for us. there is also the old-boys network, which is proving to be quite interesting lately.

I would consider your motives for joining any of the aforementioned social groups. Sure, you can meet clients at church, but if that is your motivation for going to church, something is wrong. Moreover, I think you'll be sniffed out pretty fast as being a phony.

There is a time and place for networking and marketing yourself. When you put yourself in a situation where not everyone is playing the same networking game as you, you can come off looking pretty foolish.

And things like stealing clients...it may make you rich, but it won't make you happy.

a friend of mine gets most of his projects as hand-me downs from his old boss who is too busy to take them on. i don't know how prevelant that is, but it seems to be kinda common.

Jump, I like to network to neighbors of projects as well. I typically just drop them a card to appologize for any inconveniences and let them know to give me (or the Contractor) a call and we will see if we can answer any questions that they have about what is happening in their neighborhood. Granted, I have gotten some strange phone calls from this, but also some additional work.

As far as I am concerned, I network EVERYWHERE. And by network I simply mean that when someone asks, I let them know that I am an architects, the type of work that we do and basically impress upon them that I am extremely competent. Most people love to hear about what we do, so as long as you are not shy and you don't downplay what you do, it really is as easy as that. I have gotten referrals from many wierd places (ie. the guy that sold me my car referred me to a great client).

My wife has gotten me more work by having play-dates for my daughter with other children in her pre-school class than I have ever got from any professional organization. It is just more effective (as far as my practice is concerned) to network in a way that does not seem like you are selling.

Well the last time I met with other architects other than presenting to the local design panel made up of Architects and Planners was at a Christmas party, it was a bit forced and pretty boring affair where the conversation tended to be about software upgrades and bitching about clients ( we were all preparing a proposal on the same project at the time to add insult to the event ) Although it was nice to chat it did nothing for my business affairs. Every other Christmas party I was at was way more effective at meeting and more importantly staying in touch with a crowd who may not have a pending project but something down the road 2,3 or even 4 years.

Architects are not your friends

Look to just be good at your work and be a part of the community, go to town meetings, comment ( when appropriate on civic issues) help out, I don't work for free but assist where our talents and skills can help. Recently I was speaking with a client group and was referred to as one of the "movers and shakers" in the community. It was a very nice comment on how I am viewed in the eyes of a community wide peer group ( not a professional peer group ) I am proud that people seek my opinion and look to us to assist them in acheiving their goals, its not about what we want but how we translate their goals into a built form ( to bring in another disscusion topic). I have found that what is good for the community is in the long run good for my practice and make the projects we get involved with very satisfying, but the focus is on the community first.

architects not our friends?

wow, that would suck. i have lots of friends who aren't architects, but many who are, and i enjoy them all immensely, even when we are competing for same work. competition is not something that bothers me much, and as far as it goes i am pretty thrilled when my friends build great stuff. am proud to know them, really. guess that is the bauhaus education coming through...

ah well...to each his own.

actually our professional practice prof (who is principal of large architecture firm) way back when told us the story of how he and his 2 partners each picked a different church and a different political party (there are more than 2 in canada) to join, about 20 years ago when they started their firm. that way they would have a much wider network of contacts to draw on...and it totally worked, especially that political party thing. the people they started in the party with later went on to become high level politicians with ability to award contracts...and in one case even changing the results of a competition (no joke, though he was a bit coy when we asked about it)...

that method seemed rather cynical to me, but it worked for them...

I found getting involved in non-profits and art organizatrions has helped. Unfortunatly you need to spend a fair amount of time cultivating relationships and going to meetings, but you need to get into places that need arch services.

another place is neighborhood design review ops. The focus is letting your neighbors and folks know your skill set.

Then once you land work, you gotta perform. The same tools of 'word of mouth' that get you clients, also travels when you don't deliver.

OldFogey....are you a archi-guru? I love you man!

mdler- you have brought up nambla a few times...is there something you need to get out on the table?

I just signed up for LinkedIn

Is anyone else besides treekiller a member? Perhaps there are other threads regarding this website, but this was the only one that popped up on the search.

I'm a member but I don't do anything with it. I'm still facebook-oriented, and I think its underrated as a networking tool.

You may want to look into ULI membership... its events are a way to meet builders and developers, but be warned that plenty of designers have already figured that out already.

let's look at this issue from a slightly different angle.

old fogey's right - you're not going to find many clients in your professional association. however, you're not going to gain any clients elsewhere if you don't know how to network or are ineffective as a volunteer.

let's face it - many of us suck at networking - we're often introverted, awkward socially, and uncomfortable around people we don't know.

the primary advantages of ACTIVE participation in a professional association include:

a) networking with people you aren't around every day;
b) volunteer leadership opportunities where you can practice the organizational and leadership skills you will need to be effective in other organizations;
c) the opportunity to make speeches and presentations in a somewhat safe environment - gaining invaluable experience; and
d) the chance to establish a track record for success outside your firm.

plus, you might just learn something about your profession, and yourself, along the way.

organizations like ULI are very difficult to penetrate until you have certain skills and savvy. while you're young, engage your professional association in a comfortable way that helps you grow some new networking and leadership skills. then, when you reach a stage in your career when business development skills become vital, these earlier experiences will give you the confidence and ability to be successful in other venues.

practice in front of your professional colleagues - you don't want to be learning these skills (and screwing up) in front of potential clients.

give it a try.

i want to second ochona's advice and add a word of warning.

you take on a job thru a contractor reference and, if he/she builds it, you may be pressured when the going gets rough ("i got you this job" etc.) sometimes against the client's interest. i have been there and it's not pretty.

so you have to know what you're doing and who you're dealing with when you go down this path.

nobody has mentioned Toastmasters yet..

it's social, entertaining, and another good way to meet other motivated, upwardly mobile young professionals who will proabably be your client base 10 years from now. in my experience, people who are into toastmasters are usually going places in their field of choice..

and theoretically you get to learn how to become a good public speaker at the same time.

there is perhaps no better organization for the average american architect to join...than toastmasters. thanks for mentioning it. perhaps after some time in toastmasters architects could stop mumbling architheoretical bullcrap to their shoes and start giving real presentations that at least fake some interest in what a client or audience might want or need to hear.

oh, and the elevator pitch...have your elevator pitch DOWN.

I know this is an old tread but I have been researching the different resources online and especially info on here for finding projects. Another architect in the America, one in Spain, and myself recently started our own firm after working on competitions together.

I am wondering if anyone else reading this can tell me some good resources for finding work outside of their local area. All these clubs and social event are great for architects that want to work local radius but what if you are looking to work in a broader area such as other countries that are still doing a lot of projects and not being affected by the downturn. How does a small firm go after those types of projects?

I have worked for several larger firms or older architects who get work in other countries based on their reputations and long relationships with clients in the middle east and Asia and so forth. What if you are at the same point as them when they were starting out? How did they get that first project that let to the rest? Everyone has to start somewhere. Is it a matter of having an inside connection with some sheik or prince of a small country? Is there a listing of international projects? But MOST importantly how can one find out about these international projects before everyone else digs their talons in and pushes you out of the way?

Would it be a good idea to send our info and try to contact developers who do work in other countries that we want to work in and to get a foot in the door with them to know about their projects beforehand? What other types of groups or companies could be contacted? Any resources or advice would be appreciated!

i bet you could find some clients at the bars

i have a few friends active in middle east. they were invited. i don't know why. no idea if that is the trend or what, but it feels like a culture where introductions are meaningful. the same is true in japan actually, where a cold call will probably get you more animosity than it is worth...

but who knows...why not try going the 6 degrees route?

My old boss mostly designs very high profile museums. And he got these jobs originally by hanging around with the art crowd in his city. That doesn't mean artists—usually it's lawyers, bankers, and developers who invest in art and care about it. Art people who can afford to buy good art usually have enough money and/or clout to either fund part of a large project or to recommend an up-and-coming architect for a project.

I've met more interesting people, and gotten more projects or leads, at gallery openings than at any other kind of event. People who go to galleries tend to believe in and like art and architecture.

Most of the "business networks" I've participated in can generate projects, but they tend to be slightly boring and with clients who don't care much about architecture.

I've survived 4 years as a small firm principal. Here's what I've done:

1. Ditto to most comments on the AIA-positive and negative, BUT: It is important to be involved with the AIA mainly because you will need to know what your competitors are doing, both good and bad. Some of the best advice we have gotten is from taking senior principals of other firms to lunch and picking their brains. They are usually more than willing to help. Keep in mind that just because they tell you the secret-to-success of being an architect does not mean that you are capable of achieving what they did. They know this, which is why they are so willing to help.

2. Ironically, I was a Greek in college, which ultimately proved to be the impetus commission for going on my own. It has not provided any sustaining work beyond the initial commission, however.

3. Get to know as many people as possible, and shamelessly promote your skills. REMEMBER THIS: You will not get much work from people that you know directly. You will get lots of work from the people that they know that you don't. Most of our work has been through referral or cold call of friends-of-friends. Having your friends give an endorsement to a total stranger is the strongest plus that you can have when that stranger is trying to decide between you and 5 firms just like you. A corollary to this is to always play the name game with potential clients. It gives you referrals and references that ultimately give you the commission. So one more time, know as many people as possible.

4. You will find people in all kinds of places, social clubs, non-profit boards (and young professional organizations). Get on the PR firms mailing lists for all of the opening parties at restaurants, retail stores etc. Those tend to be the most target rich environments. Don't get peo'd if your friend or acquaintance hires a competitor. It will happen. Simply give them a chance to redeem themselves.

5. This is the most important piece: Be able to succinctly promote your 'value add' as a firm. Tell them what you do, as well as what you don't do. Don't tell anyone that you can do everything. It's like bankruptcy lawyer saying that even though all they do is bankruptcy work, they would be happy to review your mineral rights contract. People are not stupid and will not hire you if you make outrageous claims about your super skills. If you don't know what you are selling, i.e. hospitality interiors, small healthcare projects, It just won't work.

MT

great points moontoast. welcome to archinect!

I'm on a roll, so a few more comments:

1. You will commonly find partnerships of both architects and non-architects that have no-friends-or-family clauses. This is because when your friend hires you, sometimes they are not your friend by the end of the project. My partner and I are very careful when working for close friends or family. Often I will offer to advise them for free as they try to chose some other path (i.e. hire a builder directly). Saving that friendship, and the 10 potential projects you might get indirectly from that friendship is far more important than the bathroom renovation project from hell that pollutes your friendship and often a larger circle of friends.

2. ULI is a dead end for most small firms. The big firms have it 100% covered, and the main sponsors of ULI (Hines or equal) only like to hire the big firms. By all means become a member, as it provides one of many potentially good counterpoints to the AIA scene, but don't count on it as a great source of work.

3. 95% of your clients will be around your age or at a similar life station in terms of experience. I'm in my late 30's and don't have a single client older than 50. Potential older clients like to hire older architects and have always done so when I have chased them. I read this in the Pran AIA guide to starting your own firm in the very beginning and it is pretty much true.

I find that last bit a bit off base....I had a 78 year old woman hire me for a job and she said, " get this job done cause the only thing I don't have is time" She has passed on and last year her little lake house sold to $1,500.00 million. I'm not 78. Today a 30 year old hipster hired me to do interior work and nope I'm not 30....So don't be pegged by age.

Snook.

Your point is valid, but I stand by my assertion that in general, especially in the beginning, younger firms need younger clients to survive. It just seems to be the way things are and the way things have been for me the last 4 years.

Perhaps my perspective on this will change as I get older or when I am famous one day (HA!).

Toastmasters! What a great idea, why did I never think of that?! I am totally going to join this year. In high school I did extemporaneous speech competitions with them as coaches and loved it. Thanks, guys.

And ochona--it's not so much the elevator pitch as it is the airplane seat pitch! I've given out my card to so many folks on business flights, it's not even funny. And gotten responses/made connections to quite a few. Well worth the loss of quiet time.

We have been mining our former client base and sending cards to the local building departments letting them know we are still alive.

remember when referring look to dig your well before you are thirsty. give a lot and for a long time before you expect to receive.

All in all our clients are all ages. however they are all entrepreneurs, just like me!

Regarding how to get international work, again, it goes back to your connections and who you know. I worked with a firm that was very tight with a structural engineering consultant. One of their principals was an immigrant but still very well connected in his native country. His connections back home yielded him several good clients and he always referred them to us for architectural services.