So, the time comes to leave your current position, to move on, to get a new job. How can one quit with grace? please, share your experiences and insight.
speaking as an employer, there are a few items you might want to consider:
1. you probably don't want to burn any bridges ... this is a very small industry and you are likely to encounter several of the higher-ups somewhere else in your career ... so, think carefully before you decide to speak, or write
2. few employers are totally surprised when employees resign to take other positions ... they may be sad, but not necessarily surprised. think about why you are deciding to leave and be prepared to share that information honestly with your current employer.
3. deliver the news in person ... bring a resignation letter with you to the meeting ... recognize that they'll know what's going on as soon as you walk into the office
4. never EVER announce your resignation to your firm's partners via e-mail ... one of our employees did that once and it pissed off every single one of the partners and they still hold a grudge
5. be prepared to work a reasonable notice period ... 2-4 weeks is customary, depending on your level of responsibility ... offer to make yourself available to answer questions via phone or e-mail about your project after you leave
6. ask your employer how they want to announce your decision to the client and the rest of the staff ... take their lead and don't violate their confidence on this matter ... there can be important political issues, associated with clients and other internal staff, that you may not understand
7. be prepared to provide your current employer "constructive" criticism about your time at the firm ... we find such feedback (when provided in a professional manner) very, very useful ... we want to learn more about how we can keep our employees happy and productive
8. if you can, try to pick a time to leave that doesn't leave the firm in a major bind ... for example, it's better to leave 2-weeks after a major deadline than 2-weeks before ... this particular piece of advice is more about being a professional than it is any particular obligation you have to your employer
9. thank your employer for the opportunity and experience you received ... even if you choke on the words
In the rarest of occasions, sometimes it may be impossible to quit gracefully, even though you should almost always make every effort to do so. The fact that you are concerned about this means that you are probably able to do it, though.
But I just helped a friend out whose boss went psycho after she handed in her perfectly professional resignation letter & two weeks notice. The boss called their house repeatedly at night, yelled at my friend's husband when my friend was not able to answer the phone herself, and made many irrational and weird threats. In her case, she just had to firmly tell her ex boss to stop harassing them and that her behavior just cemented the decision that it was time to leave the company!!
wow...while I have concerns along the lines of negative reaction, I certainly don't expect that sort of thing to happen....
actually, the office that I am at is small, and my first phase of responsibility to my employer is coming to an end. When I was hired it was discussed that I would potentially leave after stage 1 of this project was completed...so, while he may not be surprised, he still may have issue with me wanting to go...
digger, that's a very helpful list for anyone, thank you for taking the time to post it. I hope my friend who had an interview yesterday will be able to utilize that list soon!
deleting all your files, shredding all your drawings, and melting with a lighter all of the cd-roms of the projects on which you've worked during your time there is NOT recommended.
and don't leave the faucets running in the bathroom and plug up the toilet on your way out either.
When you *do* leave, don't forget to take with you copies of all of your timesheets, and detailed accounts (in whatever format you can) of the work that you did at the firm (as long as it *ahem* doesn't violate anyone's confidential needs). The timesheet thing is ESSENTIAL however. You'd be surprised how many people forget that one.
i had a boss who, if you gave him two weeks' notice (and many people did, and frequently) he would just ask you to leave immediately -- to get the upper hand on you
I gave a 3 month notice, I think they appreciated it greatly, but it doesn't work in every situation.
Since I did that, they told all other employees they wanted at least that much notice!
per ochona's comment: our office didn't say leave immediately. they asked you to coordinate it with the end of the pay period. if that's tomorrow, leave tomorrow; if it's in 9 days, leave in 9 days.
Seems that could be bittersweet. A three months is great for the office to start replacing you, but did/do your coworkers or bosses give you the feeling you are on your way out?
garpike, I assume you are talking to me: no, it was actually great for both of us. One of the architects realized I hadn't gotten some experience in some areas (site visits) and he tried to quick give all he could to me on his projects. That was nice, he didn't have to do that, nobody ever did it before. I think it gained me respect, and perhaps there was a little "don't know what you got til it's gone" going on. On both ends. Nah.
if you have a good prospect for a new job, take that into account -- if you have already found a new job, base your departure on their desired start date...provided their desired start date gives you enough room for two weeks' notice
the same boss i had who would send you home immediately -- complained when i was taking a job from him when i mentioned that i needed to be professional and give two weeks' notice at my current job. looking back, that set the tone for my entire employment there
Strawbeary, sorry for not addressing you previously. I forget that... often. Actually I usually push the date I notify my bosses because I am afraid I''ll get the cold shoulder, but I can see how it can be good. That, or you were very lucky to have that nice boss. Seems that your boss definitely felt he was losing someone good.
and 1-3 months' notice is good if you're on good terms and moving to something other than another job (grad school, time off, starting your own firm)
but if you're not having a great time, if you really NEED to leave, and if you've already found a new place to work, two weeks is enough
i've seen too many layoffs that occured one hour before quitting time -- where people were not informed beforehand yet asked to clean their desks and leave immediately -- to have much sympathy for the employer who takes a hit when an employee gives the standard two weeks' notice
straw ... in general, a firm can ask for a long notice period, but i'm not aware that any state laws require any minimum notice period ... it's generally a negotiated item between the two parties ... i doubt that ANY minimum notice period can be enforced ... it just depends on how badly you want to burn a bridge
i've seen people work long notice periods and they can be disasters -- especially when the departing employee has already 'checked out' mentally and emotionally ...
it's rare that a firm can fill a vacant position properly in 2-weeks, but -- if properly motivated -- most firms can find a replacement and have them on board in 4-weeks ... it's reasonable to require two weeks to find a good candidate and work through an offer ... but the incoming candidate still needs to work out his/her own notice period
ochona ... sure, firms that must have a staff reduction will ask the departing employees to leave fairly quickly ... this is intended to minimize the adverse morale impact on those who remain ... people who are laid off tend to have negative attitudes (understandable, but unavoidable) ... that can be poisonous if they hang around
early departures also give the laid off employee more time to start looking for a new job ... i would hope that the firm provides a decent severance package that will provide some living expenses while the departing employees seek new positions
If you give a firm two weeks notice (or any other amount) and instead of accepting it they ask you to leave immediately then: you now qualify to receive unemployment because you have technically been terminated.
As for laying off people an hour before quitting time: human resources people usually recommend that mainly as a strategy to prevent terminated employees from having a chance to: copy unauthorized files, delete or change or "misplace" any files, vandalize any property, etc. In fact in some firms they will assign someone to "supervise" a terminated employee as they pack and leave.
in the cases where i've seen the layoffs happen, there was severance pay...for exactly two weeks. i don't buy a freakin' $40 book unless i've considered it for at least a month
at-will employment can be terminated at any time by either party -- that being said, you certainly don't want to burn bridges -- communication is the key
ochona ... regretably, i've had to be on the deciding end of layoff decisions once or twice in my career ... it's a miserable experience for everybody involved
from the firm's perspective ... assuming the firm has any conscience at all ... the goal is to preserve employment as long as possible ... we don't want to lose employees we like and respect and need
in my experience, design firms tend to preserve employment too long in the face of adverse economic conditions, hoping that project on hold will start or than next job will come in the door or that deadbeat client will pay that invoice ... sometimes it works / sometimes it doesn't
too often, when the fateful decision day arrives, for the reasons outlined above the money situation is so severe the firm literally can't afford more than two-weeks of severance pay ... in my experience, the only alternative would be to terminate the employee two weeks earlier ... it's a shitty trade-off and one that's horrible to face
I've always given about a month's notice as a professional courtesy. While sometimes it has been difficult to continue working at 100%, I think it depends on a persons integrity whether or not they are professional to the end.
Personally I find that integrity is the only thing we have that can't be prostituted or stolen. I also believe this profession is a small world, and I can't tell you how many times I've run into people who know people I've worked with.
Being professional is always the best course of action.
I recently visited a friend who works for OMA in Rotterdam. There were these two interns on his project slated to leave while I was there. They had them working until midnight on their last day (and then my buddy convinced them to stay until morning just for team spirit or something). I guess you don’t get to be Rem Koolhaus by letting a couple of lazy Germans waltz out of the office and 10:00pm just because whatever it is isn’t their problem anymore.
i know of an intern (ie, model builder) who left every day from ito's office at regular hours instead of burning the midnight oil like EVERYONE else; it was not worth said person's time to work hard for free even if it was for ito. this behaviour bit back later when looking for a real architect job with another famous employer; they called ito's office to check on work habits etc; didn't get the job with famous firm, as viewed as lazy or something. luckily other firms did not see this need for a life outside of work as a bad thing and the young intern got offers from other firms not so famous but still worth working for.
anyway it is def important to leave a job on good terms. better to leave like strawberry above where the firm is really wishing you would stay on.
1. I will be fired on the spot.
2. My boss will ask me to stay past my 4 week notice date of DEC16
or
3. All will go as planned and I will be released without a guilt trip.
as for me, the quitting went wonderfully, and 3 weeks of time off between jobs was one of the best decisions I've ever made (a holiday visit to Chicago should soon result in a schoolblog entry)...
new job starts tomorrow...time will tell. One presumed downside: I expect that it will allow me less free time to peruse archinect and my del.icio.us site during work ;)
i just quit my job last week and it was not at all graceful. after only a few weeks, my intuition told me something wasn't right with my boss. the only justification i had for leaving was reptilian instinct, which tends to be difficult to explain rationally. turns out, the day after i left, a very reliable source told me the guy beat his first wife. i hope my departure makes me look smart and not unprofessional.
In my experience, the more notice that you give, the more liability your in-cure. I think 2 weeks is a good rule of thumb. Employers give you no notice when they lay you off. I know of people who have given notice, and the boss just fired them on the spot. So if you do that 3 months out that means your out of work, and trying to get another interim job can be really difficult, and potentially burn more bridges.
You don't owe your employer much if anything, they are making money off of you and how they treat you on your way out is based on profit more often that not. I think there needs to be a fine balence between leaving with dignigy/not getting screwed and not burning your bridges. The truth is that most employers wont ever hire you back, for whatever reason, so all you are hoping is a good reference, and not to run back into them at some other office with a bad taste in their mouth.
This is similar enough not to start a new thread I think.
Employee reviews are coming up this or next week. I've been here for 8 months and will be leaving this summer to return to grad school (which IS known by the bosses). I'm not at all pleased with many things about my role, but what I desire in a firm, isn't really offered here anyway (the architecture aspect, most of the people are pretty alright).
I plan on more or less keeping quiet since I need the job and the money and will just coast out my monkey work and keep stimulated with outside projects.
- "You don't owe your employer much if anything, they are making money off of you and how they treat you on your way out is based on profit more often that not." ... man, you are one sad dude ... glad you don't work at our firm ... so, i'm pretty sure you're making money off of your emloyer ... does that mean they don't owe you anything, like respect or dignity ?
SuperHeavy - the mark of a true professional is the ability to deliver good solid recommendations in a respectful, mature manner, even if those recommendations are not necessarily what the client (firm) wants to hear ... the fact that you are planning to leave doesn't mean you can't, and shouldn't, take a professional stab at providing objective, dispassionate feedback to your employer ... that sort of feedback, if rational and respectful and constructive, should not put you at risk ... who knows, it might even improve your situation during your remaining months and it could lead to further opportunity after grad school ... i take constructive feedback from our staff as a mark of trust and it builds trust and respect in return
digger- if you take constructive feedback from your staff as a mark of trust that builds respect in return, i want to work for you - apparently you're a solid adult. quite frankly, i have been disappointed with the unprofessional nonsense i have witnessed both in academia and architectural practice. ego gets in the way of everything...takes all the fun out of it.
Way to go digger. Perhaps caffienejunkie is a low level, low responsibility, don't care about my work kind of guy. But for a Professional, two weeks notice is not enough. Don't you care about the clients, the projects? I have had employees give me three months or more notice in at least 4 instances. One employee wanted to move out of state, gave me six months notice while he sold his house, and he now telecommutes from a couple of thousand miles away. We've been doing it for five years- it wouldn't have worked if we had not had that six month period to work it out. Another employee I hired to do some freelance work. My partner, when he left his old firm to join mine, gave his firm 2 months notice and worked part time for both while he finished up a project. If you are a professional with responsibility, take the responsibility seriously. Unless you walk in and tell your boss he is a jerk and thats why you are leaving, I can't imagine that it can't be done professionally to the benefit of both parties. I have had one employee leave with very short notice for no good reason- moved out of town, only gave 2 weeks notice after 12 years working here- and I don't think I will ever forgive him- he left his projects in a mess, he lost the respect of me and his co workers.
Obviously this type of thing is situational. If you've been working for a boss who treats you like shit, why should you give him/her more than two weeks notice? If you work for a boss who was great, but you're moving on for whatever reason, you might consider a months+ notice. No matter how much notice you do or don't give, I agree that you should leave things in order, so someone can pick up where you left off....maybe leave a contact number, if anyone has questions about the project you were working on.
I may be reaching the point where I am going to job searching again.
How does one handle the issue of references? Obviously I can't have the people I'm interviewing with calling up my current job.
Basically what you are doing is "laying off" your firm, so follow the same ettiquette...Do it in person, never by letter or email. Bring a letter of resignation, because they might need something in writing as to your last day of employment.
DO NOT tell them on a late Friday afternoon! Best to do it first thing Monday A.M. That gives you that full week plus the next week for the standard two weeks. Plus, you'll only have one more "Monday back at the office" day to go, instead of two if you resign midweek.
You're unhappy there, so the idea is to reduce everything...Keep the going-away lunches, goodbyes, etc. down to a minimum..Will you really be seeing these people in the future? Maybe have one goodbye lunch second-to-last day.
Something ALWAYS happens on the last day, some client calls with some huge problem, and he hasn't been told you're leaving..or the computers crash or the electricity goes off..It's your own Poltergeist vibes you're giving off..You're disturbing the karma of the office because one of the inmates is escaping and all the other captives are disturbed..
At your new job, give yourself a few months to settle in ....before you start looking for a new job..
most employers will understand that they cannot call the firm where you're presently employed ... however, you can minimize the chances of that happening by making it very easy for them to check other references ... when i can't speak with a candidates current employer, i do want to speak with someone who worked with the candidate there ... think back to those employees you've worked with at your current firm but who have left for greener pastures ... call twor or three who know you reasonably well and ask them if they'd be willing to be a reference ... if you haven't been in the work force long, your next best choice would be one (no more than two) former professors who know your work.
the MEP project manager on one of my projects left and we weren't told by his firm and we didn't find out until one day when the client told us. we'd been calling for a week, asking for him, and we had been told "he's not in the office." tell me about it! this is the third PM we've had on this project and the institutional memory over there is zero. so we end up having to re-re-reeducate someone.
i used to think, hey, two weeks. but more notice is needed, especially if you're working with others outside your firm who depend on you just as much as your employer does.
I completely agree with S that it's all about the situation. One place I worked at, it was just me and the boss, and the boss didn't know AutoCAD. So I gave him like five weeks notice. Then another place, one of the partners was a complete jerk and had just informed me that they might not have enough work for me anymore, and we'd talk later in the week about it after they went over some numbers. So guess what I did? I called up the guy I had given five weeks notice to, and he gave me two weeks of temp work so I could quit the jerk's office right away. Giving five weeks notice left him with a good enough opinion of me to take me back at any time, no questions asked.
You should always try to be professional, but the common courtesy is two weeks, and there's no reason that an office that treats you like shit should be given more than common courtesy. In fact, sometimes they deserve less, but only in very specific extreme circumstances (such as described above, where they were thinking about laying me off anyway). Also be aware that sometimes when you say, "This is my two weeks notice," they say, "yeah, pack up and leave NOW." So if you work in a very volatile sort of place, trying to do something nice by giving them a month's notice can backfire on you and leave you out of work for a month if your new office isn't ready for you quite yet.
Rationalist is right, always give two weeks, same as saying "Gesundtheit" when someone sneezes. Anything less is like quitting...Getting out of horrible office is like sneaking out of a subway car when a lunatic enters...Do so quietly and act typically, so as not to draw undue attention to yourself.
actually, I said not to always give two weeks notice. There are special circumstances. Don't 'ALWAYS' do anything. Do what the specific situation calls for, don't try to generalize everything. Some situations need to be gotten out of immediately, but these are few and far between. And if you find yourself in this situation every time, it's not them, it's you.
...but doing what the specific situation calls for over and over again makes it an "always".
I think it's best to really keep your eyes open during the interview, and especially the initial tour. Does everyone look up at you like sad puppies? Do they even bother looking up at all? Ounce of prevention, pound of cure.
Quitting Gracefully
So, the time comes to leave your current position, to move on, to get a new job. How can one quit with grace? please, share your experiences and insight.
write a nice letter, but also verbally inform those who you are on good terms with
but if your boss has royally screwed you over, don't sugarcoat it ... you don't have to lie
i've never thought of writing a letter...i'm definitely doing that when it's time for me to go...
i've noticed that keeping in touch once in a while after you have left is a good gesture
something like "i've been offered an oppportunity that i would like to pursue."
graceful and leaves the door open for a promotion or pay raise if you're still open to staying.
but pronounce opportunity with only two 'p's.
speaking as an employer, there are a few items you might want to consider:
1. you probably don't want to burn any bridges ... this is a very small industry and you are likely to encounter several of the higher-ups somewhere else in your career ... so, think carefully before you decide to speak, or write
2. few employers are totally surprised when employees resign to take other positions ... they may be sad, but not necessarily surprised. think about why you are deciding to leave and be prepared to share that information honestly with your current employer.
3. deliver the news in person ... bring a resignation letter with you to the meeting ... recognize that they'll know what's going on as soon as you walk into the office
4. never EVER announce your resignation to your firm's partners via e-mail ... one of our employees did that once and it pissed off every single one of the partners and they still hold a grudge
5. be prepared to work a reasonable notice period ... 2-4 weeks is customary, depending on your level of responsibility ... offer to make yourself available to answer questions via phone or e-mail about your project after you leave
6. ask your employer how they want to announce your decision to the client and the rest of the staff ... take their lead and don't violate their confidence on this matter ... there can be important political issues, associated with clients and other internal staff, that you may not understand
7. be prepared to provide your current employer "constructive" criticism about your time at the firm ... we find such feedback (when provided in a professional manner) very, very useful ... we want to learn more about how we can keep our employees happy and productive
8. if you can, try to pick a time to leave that doesn't leave the firm in a major bind ... for example, it's better to leave 2-weeks after a major deadline than 2-weeks before ... this particular piece of advice is more about being a professional than it is any particular obligation you have to your employer
9. thank your employer for the opportunity and experience you received ... even if you choke on the words
good luck ...
thanks digger, that's especially helpful. Most of what you list pertains specifically to my situation.
ochona, I previously considered the letter. Like many people, I can communicate my thoughts with greater concision in writing than speech. ....
In the rarest of occasions, sometimes it may be impossible to quit gracefully, even though you should almost always make every effort to do so. The fact that you are concerned about this means that you are probably able to do it, though.
But I just helped a friend out whose boss went psycho after she handed in her perfectly professional resignation letter & two weeks notice. The boss called their house repeatedly at night, yelled at my friend's husband when my friend was not able to answer the phone herself, and made many irrational and weird threats. In her case, she just had to firmly tell her ex boss to stop harassing them and that her behavior just cemented the decision that it was time to leave the company!!
wow...while I have concerns along the lines of negative reaction, I certainly don't expect that sort of thing to happen....
actually, the office that I am at is small, and my first phase of responsibility to my employer is coming to an end. When I was hired it was discussed that I would potentially leave after stage 1 of this project was completed...so, while he may not be surprised, he still may have issue with me wanting to go...
digger, that's a very helpful list for anyone, thank you for taking the time to post it. I hope my friend who had an interview yesterday will be able to utilize that list soon!
deleting all your files, shredding all your drawings, and melting with a lighter all of the cd-roms of the projects on which you've worked during your time there is NOT recommended.
and don't leave the faucets running in the bathroom and plug up the toilet on your way out either.
When you *do* leave, don't forget to take with you copies of all of your timesheets, and detailed accounts (in whatever format you can) of the work that you did at the firm (as long as it *ahem* doesn't violate anyone's confidential needs). The timesheet thing is ESSENTIAL however. You'd be surprised how many people forget that one.
i had a boss who, if you gave him two weeks' notice (and many people did, and frequently) he would just ask you to leave immediately -- to get the upper hand on you
be prepared for this
ya, I would say there's a 50% chance that will happen, unfortunately.
I gave a 3 month notice, I think they appreciated it greatly, but it doesn't work in every situation.
Since I did that, they told all other employees they wanted at least that much notice!
per ochona's comment: our office didn't say leave immediately. they asked you to coordinate it with the end of the pay period. if that's tomorrow, leave tomorrow; if it's in 9 days, leave in 9 days.
Seems that could be bittersweet. A three months is great for the office to start replacing you, but did/do your coworkers or bosses give you the feeling you are on your way out?
garpike, I assume you are talking to me: no, it was actually great for both of us. One of the architects realized I hadn't gotten some experience in some areas (site visits) and he tried to quick give all he could to me on his projects. That was nice, he didn't have to do that, nobody ever did it before. I think it gained me respect, and perhaps there was a little "don't know what you got til it's gone" going on. On both ends. Nah.
if you have a good prospect for a new job, take that into account -- if you have already found a new job, base your departure on their desired start date...provided their desired start date gives you enough room for two weeks' notice
the same boss i had who would send you home immediately -- complained when i was taking a job from him when i mentioned that i needed to be professional and give two weeks' notice at my current job. looking back, that set the tone for my entire employment there
Strawbeary, sorry for not addressing you previously. I forget that... often. Actually I usually push the date I notify my bosses because I am afraid I''ll get the cold shoulder, but I can see how it can be good. That, or you were very lucky to have that nice boss. Seems that your boss definitely felt he was losing someone good.
and 1-3 months' notice is good if you're on good terms and moving to something other than another job (grad school, time off, starting your own firm)
but if you're not having a great time, if you really NEED to leave, and if you've already found a new place to work, two weeks is enough
i've seen too many layoffs that occured one hour before quitting time -- where people were not informed beforehand yet asked to clean their desks and leave immediately -- to have much sympathy for the employer who takes a hit when an employee gives the standard two weeks' notice
straw ... in general, a firm can ask for a long notice period, but i'm not aware that any state laws require any minimum notice period ... it's generally a negotiated item between the two parties ... i doubt that ANY minimum notice period can be enforced ... it just depends on how badly you want to burn a bridge
i've seen people work long notice periods and they can be disasters -- especially when the departing employee has already 'checked out' mentally and emotionally ...
it's rare that a firm can fill a vacant position properly in 2-weeks, but -- if properly motivated -- most firms can find a replacement and have them on board in 4-weeks ... it's reasonable to require two weeks to find a good candidate and work through an offer ... but the incoming candidate still needs to work out his/her own notice period
ochona ... sure, firms that must have a staff reduction will ask the departing employees to leave fairly quickly ... this is intended to minimize the adverse morale impact on those who remain ... people who are laid off tend to have negative attitudes (understandable, but unavoidable) ... that can be poisonous if they hang around
early departures also give the laid off employee more time to start looking for a new job ... i would hope that the firm provides a decent severance package that will provide some living expenses while the departing employees seek new positions
If you give a firm two weeks notice (or any other amount) and instead of accepting it they ask you to leave immediately then: you now qualify to receive unemployment because you have technically been terminated.
As for laying off people an hour before quitting time: human resources people usually recommend that mainly as a strategy to prevent terminated employees from having a chance to: copy unauthorized files, delete or change or "misplace" any files, vandalize any property, etc. In fact in some firms they will assign someone to "supervise" a terminated employee as they pack and leave.
in the cases where i've seen the layoffs happen, there was severance pay...for exactly two weeks. i don't buy a freakin' $40 book unless i've considered it for at least a month
at-will employment can be terminated at any time by either party -- that being said, you certainly don't want to burn bridges -- communication is the key
ochona ... regretably, i've had to be on the deciding end of layoff decisions once or twice in my career ... it's a miserable experience for everybody involved
from the firm's perspective ... assuming the firm has any conscience at all ... the goal is to preserve employment as long as possible ... we don't want to lose employees we like and respect and need
in my experience, design firms tend to preserve employment too long in the face of adverse economic conditions, hoping that project on hold will start or than next job will come in the door or that deadbeat client will pay that invoice ... sometimes it works / sometimes it doesn't
too often, when the fateful decision day arrives, for the reasons outlined above the money situation is so severe the firm literally can't afford more than two-weeks of severance pay ... in my experience, the only alternative would be to terminate the employee two weeks earlier ... it's a shitty trade-off and one that's horrible to face
are you allowed to give your girlfriend two weeks notice?
that leaves 49 other ways to leave your lover ....
I've always given about a month's notice as a professional courtesy. While sometimes it has been difficult to continue working at 100%, I think it depends on a persons integrity whether or not they are professional to the end.
Personally I find that integrity is the only thing we have that can't be prostituted or stolen. I also believe this profession is a small world, and I can't tell you how many times I've run into people who know people I've worked with.
Being professional is always the best course of action.
I recently visited a friend who works for OMA in Rotterdam. There were these two interns on his project slated to leave while I was there. They had them working until midnight on their last day (and then my buddy convinced them to stay until morning just for team spirit or something). I guess you don’t get to be Rem Koolhaus by letting a couple of lazy Germans waltz out of the office and 10:00pm just because whatever it is isn’t their problem anymore.
not all interns are equal.
i know of an intern (ie, model builder) who left every day from ito's office at regular hours instead of burning the midnight oil like EVERYONE else; it was not worth said person's time to work hard for free even if it was for ito. this behaviour bit back later when looking for a real architect job with another famous employer; they called ito's office to check on work habits etc; didn't get the job with famous firm, as viewed as lazy or something. luckily other firms did not see this need for a life outside of work as a bad thing and the young intern got offers from other firms not so famous but still worth working for.
anyway it is def important to leave a job on good terms. better to leave like strawberry above where the firm is really wishing you would stay on.
I'll report tomorrow afternoon with the results.
One of three things will happen:
1. I will be fired on the spot.
2. My boss will ask me to stay past my 4 week notice date of DEC16
or
3. All will go as planned and I will be released without a guilt trip.
...
ah a problem i will have to confront this week as i have taken a new gig in the city of hot redheads, indianapolis.
vado's new boss:
congrats, vado!
so, mr. retro, how did it work out?
as for me, the quitting went wonderfully, and 3 weeks of time off between jobs was one of the best decisions I've ever made (a holiday visit to Chicago should soon result in a schoolblog entry)...
new job starts tomorrow...time will tell. One presumed downside: I expect that it will allow me less free time to peruse archinect and my del.icio.us site during work ;)
AP, what firm are you working at now?
i just quit my job last week and it was not at all graceful. after only a few weeks, my intuition told me something wasn't right with my boss. the only justification i had for leaving was reptilian instinct, which tends to be difficult to explain rationally. turns out, the day after i left, a very reliable source told me the guy beat his first wife. i hope my departure makes me look smart and not unprofessional.
In my experience, the more notice that you give, the more liability your in-cure. I think 2 weeks is a good rule of thumb. Employers give you no notice when they lay you off. I know of people who have given notice, and the boss just fired them on the spot. So if you do that 3 months out that means your out of work, and trying to get another interim job can be really difficult, and potentially burn more bridges.
You don't owe your employer much if anything, they are making money off of you and how they treat you on your way out is based on profit more often that not. I think there needs to be a fine balence between leaving with dignigy/not getting screwed and not burning your bridges. The truth is that most employers wont ever hire you back, for whatever reason, so all you are hoping is a good reference, and not to run back into them at some other office with a bad taste in their mouth.
This is similar enough not to start a new thread I think.
Employee reviews are coming up this or next week. I've been here for 8 months and will be leaving this summer to return to grad school (which IS known by the bosses). I'm not at all pleased with many things about my role, but what I desire in a firm, isn't really offered here anyway (the architecture aspect, most of the people are pretty alright).
I plan on more or less keeping quiet since I need the job and the money and will just coast out my monkey work and keep stimulated with outside projects.
Anyone see reasons to rock the boat right now?
digger, thanks for the list.
vado, do you need help at work?
don't rock the boat. keep your head down and ride it out until you leave for school. why risk losing income and time looking for an interim gig?
- "You don't owe your employer much if anything, they are making money off of you and how they treat you on your way out is based on profit more often that not." ... man, you are one sad dude ... glad you don't work at our firm ... so, i'm pretty sure you're making money off of your emloyer ... does that mean they don't owe you anything, like respect or dignity ?
SuperHeavy - the mark of a true professional is the ability to deliver good solid recommendations in a respectful, mature manner, even if those recommendations are not necessarily what the client (firm) wants to hear ... the fact that you are planning to leave doesn't mean you can't, and shouldn't, take a professional stab at providing objective, dispassionate feedback to your employer ... that sort of feedback, if rational and respectful and constructive, should not put you at risk ... who knows, it might even improve your situation during your remaining months and it could lead to further opportunity after grad school ... i take constructive feedback from our staff as a mark of trust and it builds trust and respect in return
digger- if you take constructive feedback from your staff as a mark of trust that builds respect in return, i want to work for you - apparently you're a solid adult. quite frankly, i have been disappointed with the unprofessional nonsense i have witnessed both in academia and architectural practice. ego gets in the way of everything...takes all the fun out of it.
Way to go digger. Perhaps caffienejunkie is a low level, low responsibility, don't care about my work kind of guy. But for a Professional, two weeks notice is not enough. Don't you care about the clients, the projects? I have had employees give me three months or more notice in at least 4 instances. One employee wanted to move out of state, gave me six months notice while he sold his house, and he now telecommutes from a couple of thousand miles away. We've been doing it for five years- it wouldn't have worked if we had not had that six month period to work it out. Another employee I hired to do some freelance work. My partner, when he left his old firm to join mine, gave his firm 2 months notice and worked part time for both while he finished up a project. If you are a professional with responsibility, take the responsibility seriously. Unless you walk in and tell your boss he is a jerk and thats why you are leaving, I can't imagine that it can't be done professionally to the benefit of both parties. I have had one employee leave with very short notice for no good reason- moved out of town, only gave 2 weeks notice after 12 years working here- and I don't think I will ever forgive him- he left his projects in a mess, he lost the respect of me and his co workers.
Obviously this type of thing is situational. If you've been working for a boss who treats you like shit, why should you give him/her more than two weeks notice? If you work for a boss who was great, but you're moving on for whatever reason, you might consider a months+ notice. No matter how much notice you do or don't give, I agree that you should leave things in order, so someone can pick up where you left off....maybe leave a contact number, if anyone has questions about the project you were working on.
I may be reaching the point where I am going to job searching again.
How does one handle the issue of references? Obviously I can't have the people I'm interviewing with calling up my current job.
Basically what you are doing is "laying off" your firm, so follow the same ettiquette...Do it in person, never by letter or email. Bring a letter of resignation, because they might need something in writing as to your last day of employment.
DO NOT tell them on a late Friday afternoon! Best to do it first thing Monday A.M. That gives you that full week plus the next week for the standard two weeks. Plus, you'll only have one more "Monday back at the office" day to go, instead of two if you resign midweek.
You're unhappy there, so the idea is to reduce everything...Keep the going-away lunches, goodbyes, etc. down to a minimum..Will you really be seeing these people in the future? Maybe have one goodbye lunch second-to-last day.
Something ALWAYS happens on the last day, some client calls with some huge problem, and he hasn't been told you're leaving..or the computers crash or the electricity goes off..It's your own Poltergeist vibes you're giving off..You're disturbing the karma of the office because one of the inmates is escaping and all the other captives are disturbed..
At your new job, give yourself a few months to settle in ....before you start looking for a new job..
most employers will understand that they cannot call the firm where you're presently employed ... however, you can minimize the chances of that happening by making it very easy for them to check other references ... when i can't speak with a candidates current employer, i do want to speak with someone who worked with the candidate there ... think back to those employees you've worked with at your current firm but who have left for greener pastures ... call twor or three who know you reasonably well and ask them if they'd be willing to be a reference ... if you haven't been in the work force long, your next best choice would be one (no more than two) former professors who know your work.
the MEP project manager on one of my projects left and we weren't told by his firm and we didn't find out until one day when the client told us. we'd been calling for a week, asking for him, and we had been told "he's not in the office." tell me about it! this is the third PM we've had on this project and the institutional memory over there is zero. so we end up having to re-re-reeducate someone.
i used to think, hey, two weeks. but more notice is needed, especially if you're working with others outside your firm who depend on you just as much as your employer does.
I completely agree with S that it's all about the situation. One place I worked at, it was just me and the boss, and the boss didn't know AutoCAD. So I gave him like five weeks notice. Then another place, one of the partners was a complete jerk and had just informed me that they might not have enough work for me anymore, and we'd talk later in the week about it after they went over some numbers. So guess what I did? I called up the guy I had given five weeks notice to, and he gave me two weeks of temp work so I could quit the jerk's office right away. Giving five weeks notice left him with a good enough opinion of me to take me back at any time, no questions asked.
You should always try to be professional, but the common courtesy is two weeks, and there's no reason that an office that treats you like shit should be given more than common courtesy. In fact, sometimes they deserve less, but only in very specific extreme circumstances (such as described above, where they were thinking about laying me off anyway). Also be aware that sometimes when you say, "This is my two weeks notice," they say, "yeah, pack up and leave NOW." So if you work in a very volatile sort of place, trying to do something nice by giving them a month's notice can backfire on you and leave you out of work for a month if your new office isn't ready for you quite yet.
Rationalist is right, always give two weeks, same as saying "Gesundtheit" when someone sneezes. Anything less is like quitting...Getting out of horrible office is like sneaking out of a subway car when a lunatic enters...Do so quietly and act typically, so as not to draw undue attention to yourself.
actually, I said not to always give two weeks notice. There are special circumstances. Don't 'ALWAYS' do anything. Do what the specific situation calls for, don't try to generalize everything. Some situations need to be gotten out of immediately, but these are few and far between. And if you find yourself in this situation every time, it's not them, it's you.
...but doing what the specific situation calls for over and over again makes it an "always".
I think it's best to really keep your eyes open during the interview, and especially the initial tour. Does everyone look up at you like sad puppies? Do they even bother looking up at all? Ounce of prevention, pound of cure.
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