Only for some - in fact my life keeps getting better and I can't figure out why, when our country is supposed to be fucked. Think of it as social darwinism, and if you aren't strong, you'll be "working for food". Get a life dude. Go outside and enjoy the weekend and our beautiful weather - you miserable shit - better yet - put in some extra hours and make some extra cash and more than likely you'll forget about the bums holding signs as you become less and less like them.
social darwinism.....oh yeah, like wot hitler wanted to do. right, i get it.
hm, no don't think I'll buy into that one. But as long as AA doesn't have any children to pass genes on to I'll hapily send in the money. If I give the cash straight to Bush think he'd take care of that personally? I hear he's a hands on kinda guy...
god aa- you live in my town and your a republican? must be a suburabanite who drives a hummer2.
its 10:45 at night, just came off the kennedy right at the 'lady of the underpants' memorial and on both exit ramps people look'n for a bit of help. from the north a guy, the south a woman with a child.
AA -- are you suggesting you will take them into your office to work? bless you my child!! more power to ya if your are!! not certain that young'n can draw yet, but perhaps can make you some lincoln log models!
For the record, I started out with less than nothing, and borrowed money to go to school, which I PAY BACK through the nose each month.
It's all about personal rsponsibilty - and hard work. To put a picture of a 50-something year-old man with a cardboard sign and say bush has something to do with it is ridicullous.
It seems very convenient for many to place the blame for any shortcomings on Bush. The only way bush directly affected anyone's livelihood is of those who worked in the Kerry camp. Most others were predisposed to fail after the artificial dot-com economy adjusted itself.
Another thing - my car is a piece of crap, I dont make a ton of money, but I do my part to fulfuill my social contract of personal responsibilty.
So that why I interject. That's why I think most should just shut up and get to friggin work and stop blaming bush for an omnipresent social problem. The funny thing is TED, we probably know eachother - and with the political rhetoric aside, may be very alike. Maybe not - I don't know. All I know is if it weren't for the rich suburbanites driving Hummer 2's - we'd all be out of work.
aa, come on you think that homeless dude qualifies for a loan? Hell I paid for school by working and saving evry cent for 5+ years of my life (debt-free graduation is a nice experience if you can stand the delay). who cares. that doesn't give me any special rights...certainly nothing that approaches the contempt you seem to think is your due.
bush' policies do not help the poor. not that clinton's did either in amny cases. nonetheless, while Bush may not have intended it, the effect of his decisions is particularly poignant for those who don't have much going for them to begin with. the news is pretty full of the programs he has cut, some reasonably, but many not. So yes, he has had a direct effect on the number of poor on the street.
2. instead of holding a sign, the homeless ought to go apply for a real job....or maybe it's that they prefer to just lounge around and mooch for those pity dollars which they use to get drunk. pity perpetuates their condition.
3. you can't help people that don't have the will to help themselves.
4. you'll never 'fix' homelessness, crime, or poverty
"Under the Bush tax cuts, the 400 taxpayers with the highest incomes - a minimum of $87 million in 2000, the last year for which the government will release such data - now pay income, Medicare and Social Security taxes amounting to virtually the same percentage of their incomes as people making $50,000 to $75,000. Those earning more than $10 million a year now pay a lesser share of their income in these taxes than those making $100,000 to $200,000."
not anecdotal, don't be asinine. as a result of bush's cuts, and outright protectionist doctrine for the eilite in America, the poor don't even get the possibility of a break. Not everyone can be helped or wants to be helped but it is worth the effort, culturally and morally to offer the hand up (not out). To paraphrase one of your country's heroes (JFK), it is tantamount to a crime when in a time of moral crisis no action is taken. bush is as corrupt as most politicans but hides his ineptness in a warm blanket of yes men and ignorance. How dissapoionting that he should lift so many of the words from JFK without understanding the content.
asking for money is an entrepenuerial (sp?) endeavor. money is asked for and you either give and receive a service/product of an eased mind by helping out your fellow man. and even if you don't give the money you receive the service/product of feeling superior, judging your fellow human being or adding another layer of gristle around your heart. its a win/win. so quit bitchin about it.
oh yeh, Blair wants to go out with style, leave a legacy other than underarmored soldiers dead for nothing...looks like Bush is gonna give him just a token bit of coin for his afrikan fund htough. Funny how he could find the money when it was time to renew those tax cuts but bupkus for the fella who took the heat for him when times were hard. what a frickin hypocrite.
1. (clarification) TED's original post was pure anecdotal evidence. invalid.
2. "To paraphrase one of your country's heroes (JFK), it is tantamount to a crime when in a time of moral crisis no action is taken." The "moral crisis" is permanent, does this mean unlimited and unbounded government action? Someone will always be in hard times, what's your definition of "moral crisis"?
asking for money is an entrepenuerial (sp?) endeavor Yes, but the panhandler isn't transferring any service, he's simply the object of the giver's internal satisfaction. Or, look at it as a job...hey, now they're employed. I guess their box could be called a poorly designed home.
4. a sad exposure of your pessimistic naivety. ....or an age-old realization of wise men.
I used to give homeless people money - then I realized the same people are begging on the same corner every day for the last 4 years. Now I despise them. There is Catholic Charities right down the street with 600 beds, rehab and job training. I may go round them up myself and throw them in there. Oh wait - then someone would say thats a Nazi thing to do. I guess I'll let them die onm the street then.
These people figured out a way to get thse guys to work....except it was an evil method of exploiting their misfortune. Why not have a similar plan where Crack + Booze isn't involved? Why? Because i won't work!
If more signs read "Will Work For Booze And Crack" There might not be a homeless problem. The programs were cut because they don't work - Clinton thought they would but only resulted in a HUGE sucking sound Bush had to end. Pepole bitch aboutthe ecomomy, then bitch about sensible ways to help with the Economy. Plug the holes!
sometimes i see people in really bad shape and i give them money without them asking me. and whatever they spend the money for, is fine with me.
but when i see the typical familiar face on certain light stop, it is no way jose..
when i was working for my contractor friend repairing the damage in liquor stores and mini-malls after the riots in la (real bad jobless few years in the city), we offered 10 bucks per hour to the guy (i was making 12 and my boss 20) for few days. he said he was making 120 on avarage rainy day and about 75 on sunny days and it was 6 hours days for him and he didn't have to work everyday. he said thanks but no thanks. eviliptus is right. if you see the same person over and over at the same spot, save your buck for a person who is not into 'business of begging' or get yourself a hot dog. by the way, this beggar was dropped off and picked up by a woman who was driving a fairly nice truck.
location; La Cienaga and Venice.
shelters exist to feed those people, clothe them and give them a plce to stay. as stated here, more often than not the money they need is for drugs, cigarettes and booze. in high school, i drove one such character and my naive little self felt sorry for him, so i swung into burger king and ordered some chow. i took the bag right to him and he turned it down. since then i never give to the homeless directly.
Individuals are one thing. What pisses me off more than anything is seeing a child involved. I saw a mom/dad/son/daughter on a corner here in Boulder. Mom n Dad were sitting in the shade. Son and daughter were holding some signs. Maybe mom n dad were taking a break, but it still sucks on so many levels.
One more note...Just heard on the news that the murder rate is at its lowest in 6 years...it's 2005, so Bush MUST be lying about this statistic to disspell the premise of this and other threads like it. The lower rate must be the residual effect of Bill Clinton's pervasive socail reformations. There's now way violent crime is lower after Bush has put SO MANY mentally stable people on the street simply to quench his and Dick Cheney's Thirst for Light Sweet Crude Oil. With Increasing population, out-of-control immigration, and joblessness and homelessness at unprecedented levels - the disenfranchised must be too broke to afford weapons and too malnourished to use them??? Hmmmmm Certainly a Right-Wing Conservative reverse-psychology tactic. Somebody help me understand that the real effect contradicts the cause.
according to steve levitt at least one of the the causes of reduced crime, including murder, come from the legalisation of abortion with the decision of wade vs roe. Not THE cause, but a significant player. What you think you are seeing isn't always the case, and mere plausibility is no guarantee of fact.
Some homeless folks are nuts, some lazy, some con-men, and some seriously needy; telling them apart is not always easy, but that ain't the point is it. There is no panacea for the difficulties of poverty, and I tend not to believe in giving people money for nothing. But what is for me so troubling is that so many blithely assume poverty is the fault of the poor, and wealth the reward of the hard work. I can speak from experience that while that might be the world we all wish for, it simply isn't so. And why not be anecdotal, this ain't no thesis. In fa
according to steve levitt at least one of the the causes of reduced crime, including murder, come from the legalisation of abortion with the decision of wade vs roe. Not THE cause, but a significant player. What you think you are seeing isn't always the case, and mere plausibility is no guarantee of fact.
Some homeless folks are nuts, some lazy, some con-men, and some seriously needy; telling them apart is not always easy, but that ain't the point is it. There is no panacea for the difficulties of poverty, and I tend not to believe in giving people money for nothing. But what is for me so troubling is that so many blithely assume poverty is the fault of the poor, and wealth the reward of the hard work. I can speak from experience that while that may be the world we all wish for, it simply isn't so. And why not be anecdotal?... this ain't no thesis. In fact lets be right tabloid about it, bring in a few celebrities even. Jim carrey maybe...
George Bush's America
is it my imagination or are there increasing numbers of homeless folks out on the streets since the november election?
| Hunger and Homelessness Survey 2004
Only for some - in fact my life keeps getting better and I can't figure out why, when our country is supposed to be fucked. Think of it as social darwinism, and if you aren't strong, you'll be "working for food". Get a life dude. Go outside and enjoy the weekend and our beautiful weather - you miserable shit - better yet - put in some extra hours and make some extra cash and more than likely you'll forget about the bums holding signs as you become less and less like them.
lovely
social darwinism.....oh yeah, like wot hitler wanted to do. right, i get it.
hm, no don't think I'll buy into that one. But as long as AA doesn't have any children to pass genes on to I'll hapily send in the money. If I give the cash straight to Bush think he'd take care of that personally? I hear he's a hands on kinda guy...
god aa- you live in my town and your a republican? must be a suburabanite who drives a hummer2.
its 10:45 at night, just came off the kennedy right at the 'lady of the underpants' memorial and on both exit ramps people look'n for a bit of help. from the north a guy, the south a woman with a child.
AA -- are you suggesting you will take them into your office to work? bless you my child!! more power to ya if your are!! not certain that young'n can draw yet, but perhaps can make you some lincoln log models!
For the record, I started out with less than nothing, and borrowed money to go to school, which I PAY BACK through the nose each month.
It's all about personal rsponsibilty - and hard work. To put a picture of a 50-something year-old man with a cardboard sign and say bush has something to do with it is ridicullous.
It seems very convenient for many to place the blame for any shortcomings on Bush. The only way bush directly affected anyone's livelihood is of those who worked in the Kerry camp. Most others were predisposed to fail after the artificial dot-com economy adjusted itself.
Another thing - my car is a piece of crap, I dont make a ton of money, but I do my part to fulfuill my social contract of personal responsibilty.
So that why I interject. That's why I think most should just shut up and get to friggin work and stop blaming bush for an omnipresent social problem. The funny thing is TED, we probably know eachother - and with the political rhetoric aside, may be very alike. Maybe not - I don't know. All I know is if it weren't for the rich suburbanites driving Hummer 2's - we'd all be out of work.
aa, come on you think that homeless dude qualifies for a loan? Hell I paid for school by working and saving evry cent for 5+ years of my life (debt-free graduation is a nice experience if you can stand the delay). who cares. that doesn't give me any special rights...certainly nothing that approaches the contempt you seem to think is your due.
bush' policies do not help the poor. not that clinton's did either in amny cases. nonetheless, while Bush may not have intended it, the effect of his decisions is particularly poignant for those who don't have much going for them to begin with. the news is pretty full of the programs he has cut, some reasonably, but many not. So yes, he has had a direct effect on the number of poor on the street.
1. anecdotal evidence is invalid
2. instead of holding a sign, the homeless ought to go apply for a real job....or maybe it's that they prefer to just lounge around and mooch for those pity dollars which they use to get drunk. pity perpetuates their condition.
3. you can't help people that don't have the will to help themselves.
4. you'll never 'fix' homelessness, crime, or poverty
according to hebert of the NY times:
"Under the Bush tax cuts, the 400 taxpayers with the highest incomes - a minimum of $87 million in 2000, the last year for which the government will release such data - now pay income, Medicare and Social Security taxes amounting to virtually the same percentage of their incomes as people making $50,000 to $75,000. Those earning more than $10 million a year now pay a lesser share of their income in these taxes than those making $100,000 to $200,000."
not anecdotal, don't be asinine. as a result of bush's cuts, and outright protectionist doctrine for the eilite in America, the poor don't even get the possibility of a break. Not everyone can be helped or wants to be helped but it is worth the effort, culturally and morally to offer the hand up (not out). To paraphrase one of your country's heroes (JFK), it is tantamount to a crime when in a time of moral crisis no action is taken. bush is as corrupt as most politicans but hides his ineptness in a warm blanket of yes men and ignorance. How dissapoionting that he should lift so many of the words from JFK without understanding the content.
asking for money is an entrepenuerial (sp?) endeavor. money is asked for and you either give and receive a service/product of an eased mind by helping out your fellow man. and even if you don't give the money you receive the service/product of feeling superior, judging your fellow human being or adding another layer of gristle around your heart. its a win/win. so quit bitchin about it.
nicomachean - a sad exposure of your pessimistic naivety.
not antedotal.....and maybe W and blair can discuss it this week in dc.
yesterdays article in the guardian £3 a day: the slim budget of Britain's hidden underclass
oh yeh, Blair wants to go out with style, leave a legacy other than underarmored soldiers dead for nothing...looks like Bush is gonna give him just a token bit of coin for his afrikan fund htough. Funny how he could find the money when it was time to renew those tax cuts but bupkus for the fella who took the heat for him when times were hard. what a frickin hypocrite.
1. (clarification) TED's original post was pure anecdotal evidence. invalid.
2. "To paraphrase one of your country's heroes (JFK), it is tantamount to a crime when in a time of moral crisis no action is taken." The "moral crisis" is permanent, does this mean unlimited and unbounded government action? Someone will always be in hard times, what's your definition of "moral crisis"?
asking for money is an entrepenuerial (sp?) endeavor Yes, but the panhandler isn't transferring any service, he's simply the object of the giver's internal satisfaction. Or, look at it as a job...hey, now they're employed. I guess their box could be called a poorly designed home.
4. a sad exposure of your pessimistic naivety. ....or an age-old realization of wise men.
I used to give homeless people money - then I realized the same people are begging on the same corner every day for the last 4 years. Now I despise them. There is Catholic Charities right down the street with 600 beds, rehab and job training. I may go round them up myself and throw them in there. Oh wait - then someone would say thats a Nazi thing to do. I guess I'll let them die onm the street then.
These people figured out a way to get thse guys to work....except it was an evil method of exploiting their misfortune. Why not have a similar plan where Crack + Booze isn't involved? Why? Because i won't work!
If more signs read "Will Work For Booze And Crack" There might not be a homeless problem. The programs were cut because they don't work - Clinton thought they would but only resulted in a HUGE sucking sound Bush had to end. Pepole bitch aboutthe ecomomy, then bitch about sensible ways to help with the Economy. Plug the holes!
sometimes i see people in really bad shape and i give them money without them asking me. and whatever they spend the money for, is fine with me.
but when i see the typical familiar face on certain light stop, it is no way jose..
when i was working for my contractor friend repairing the damage in liquor stores and mini-malls after the riots in la (real bad jobless few years in the city), we offered 10 bucks per hour to the guy (i was making 12 and my boss 20) for few days. he said he was making 120 on avarage rainy day and about 75 on sunny days and it was 6 hours days for him and he didn't have to work everyday. he said thanks but no thanks. eviliptus is right. if you see the same person over and over at the same spot, save your buck for a person who is not into 'business of begging' or get yourself a hot dog. by the way, this beggar was dropped off and picked up by a woman who was driving a fairly nice truck.
location; La Cienaga and Venice.
abra- thx. for the tip. I go by there all the time.
I never give anyone money, but if they catch me outside a grocery store, I'll sometimes pick up some extra food.
shelters exist to feed those people, clothe them and give them a plce to stay. as stated here, more often than not the money they need is for drugs, cigarettes and booze. in high school, i drove one such character and my naive little self felt sorry for him, so i swung into burger king and ordered some chow. i took the bag right to him and he turned it down. since then i never give to the homeless directly.
drove by one such character, i mean
Individuals are one thing. What pisses me off more than anything is seeing a child involved. I saw a mom/dad/son/daughter on a corner here in Boulder. Mom n Dad were sitting in the shade. Son and daughter were holding some signs. Maybe mom n dad were taking a break, but it still sucks on so many levels.
i'll sometimes give a homeless person money if they're jamming with a saxophone or something...
the smoker who blows bubbles inside of bubbles is worth it too...
sometimes a creative sign merits a handout....
all voluntary, never compulsory
you've seen this right?
One more note...Just heard on the news that the murder rate is at its lowest in 6 years...it's 2005, so Bush MUST be lying about this statistic to disspell the premise of this and other threads like it. The lower rate must be the residual effect of Bill Clinton's pervasive socail reformations. There's now way violent crime is lower after Bush has put SO MANY mentally stable people on the street simply to quench his and Dick Cheney's Thirst for Light Sweet Crude Oil. With Increasing population, out-of-control immigration, and joblessness and homelessness at unprecedented levels - the disenfranchised must be too broke to afford weapons and too malnourished to use them??? Hmmmmm Certainly a Right-Wing Conservative reverse-psychology tactic. Somebody help me understand that the real effect contradicts the cause.
AA, all living beings are Cheney's pawns!
according to steve levitt at least one of the the causes of reduced crime, including murder, come from the legalisation of abortion with the decision of wade vs roe. Not THE cause, but a significant player. What you think you are seeing isn't always the case, and mere plausibility is no guarantee of fact.
Some homeless folks are nuts, some lazy, some con-men, and some seriously needy; telling them apart is not always easy, but that ain't the point is it. There is no panacea for the difficulties of poverty, and I tend not to believe in giving people money for nothing. But what is for me so troubling is that so many blithely assume poverty is the fault of the poor, and wealth the reward of the hard work. I can speak from experience that while that might be the world we all wish for, it simply isn't so. And why not be anecdotal, this ain't no thesis. In fa
according to steve levitt at least one of the the causes of reduced crime, including murder, come from the legalisation of abortion with the decision of wade vs roe. Not THE cause, but a significant player. What you think you are seeing isn't always the case, and mere plausibility is no guarantee of fact.
Some homeless folks are nuts, some lazy, some con-men, and some seriously needy; telling them apart is not always easy, but that ain't the point is it. There is no panacea for the difficulties of poverty, and I tend not to believe in giving people money for nothing. But what is for me so troubling is that so many blithely assume poverty is the fault of the poor, and wealth the reward of the hard work. I can speak from experience that while that may be the world we all wish for, it simply isn't so. And why not be anecdotal?... this ain't no thesis. In fact lets be right tabloid about it, bring in a few celebrities even. Jim carrey maybe...
wups
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