I'd really like to work abroad for a few years. Anyone with international knowledge know of some good markets to look at? Unfortunatley I only speak English (typical American!).
Also, any pros/cons for starting your career abroad? I have my IDP done, so I dont need to worry about that.
If you have your IDP done, I would go ahead and sit for the ARE. That way if you do decide to come back you have your license, and it should reciprocate where ever you decide to work.
Pretty much anywhere in Western Europe and Scandinavia you will get by with only knowing English, but just by living there you will pick it up. I know a girl who went to my school that now practices in Austria. She is pretty much fluent in German after 5 years.
Pros:
There is plenty of work, finding a job is no problem. Most architecture firms welcome foreigners with open arms. Both international and local firms have an appreciation for western design education and experience, and foreign designers who are skilled in lateral thinking are highly valued. "Architect" is a fairly well-respected profession here, and there is a fairly large architecture and design community with lots of opportunities for networking. The pay isn't great, but the cost of living is low, and one can live very comfortably on a typical salary. Shanghai is a huge international city: you can get by with only English.
Cons:
If you expect to be designing Bird's Nests and CCTVs you will be disappointed: these glamorous jobs are rare, and the "craziest proposal" will not always win. Like anywhere, most clients are concerned with their bottom line first and foremost, and will only go for audacious schemes if they feel the iconic image is paramount. The speed of projects can be exhilarating, but at such a pace there will always be corners cut or details ignored; quality control is a struggle. Your mileage may vary on "culture shock." The air. You should visit first and try breathing before you make a commitment....
Shanghai would be great. Can you really work there without knowing any Mandarin? And maybe this is a topic for another thread...but what kind of pay can you expect in China?
@jbushkey....working on it. I have a travel fellowship in Norway this summer. Hoping to get some good networking/leads in for after graduation. Emailing has so far been unsuccessful for a summer internship.
I started my career abroad in Shanghai a number of years ago.
While I have few positive things to say about my work experience as a whole in Shanghai, I will say that when I returned to the US, EVERY interviewer responded with very positive remarks, regarding a young individual who was willing to take the initiative to move across the world to pursue their career. It definitely was a nice thing to have on my resume and helped separate me from others who were competing for the same job.
Yes. A number of my expat friends were working at American firms making American wages. They were able to save a substantial chunk of change and live a relatively well within Shanghai. I had 4 friends that stayed in Shanghai, although unhappy with their jobs, solely to pay off their student loan debt.
One of my friends lived there for 2.5 years. I believe she paid off close to 65k worth of student loan debts during her time in Shanghai. She was making around 50k a year. By no means was she living a frugal live either. Her firm did pay for her apartment and gave her one round-trip ticket back to the US every year.
If you work for a Chinese firm, you probably won't be able to make a dent in your student loans.
Things change fast in China - n_ when was this? I think the "expat package" is an endangered species, and probably not applicable to OP's situation. Sure, if your American company SENDS you to china, you can expect a US salary and some extra benefits, but I think that for someone already thinking about moving (and thus, probably applying specifically for jobs in China) would be naive to expect such a high salary.
I've spoken with a handful of HR recruiters here, and they tell me the salary for (locally-hired) architects/designers (with a few years experience) ranges from 4,000 - 30,000 rmb, month - a HUGE range. The major factor will be whether you work for a local or an international firm - when I got job offers in Shanghai, the local firms offered little over half what the international firms did. I think the firm itself is a much bigger factor than your background, as the skills that foreign architects bring are no longer as rare as they once were, especially as China opens up relations with Taiwan, a source of foreign-trained, multi-lingual, and culturally-attuned staff...
The last of my friends left Shanghai last year. Their replacements were still being offered expat packages so they still exists, although I'm sure they are few and far between nowadays.
things are likely different now but my own experience was that after working 5 years in asia in the 1990's i returned to canada to find that idp was going to be a problem, and the offices i interviewed at mostly dismissed the experience i had accumulated.
after some soul-searching i took a chance on europe where for whatever reason the experience was valued, and became an ex-pat again. it meant the difference between starting from zero and continuing where i left off. now i am even further down the road i am not sure i would ever be able to start an entire new career back where i grew up.
if you plan to return to your home country i definitely recommend getting your licence, or at least idp, before embarking on a career abroad. it will make the return much easier. alternatively you can get around some of the difficulties by working for a western firm and be sure to get a mentor once you start work so you have someone to sign off on the logbook (some of my friends who managed the ex-pat architect life better than me did it this way).
How is the middle east? I hear so much about as to how they welcome foreign passports with foreign degrees with open arms. Also, how they pay you well with being almost tax free in most countries. I'll admit the cost of living is high in a lot of places but is it really worth it? I probably am just hearing bull but you guys could help me out.
By the way, when you work in other places abroad, do you have to write any exam before you can work? Or do you just start working right away?
Hey Jump, not sure if you're aware, but the days of not being able to become accredited back home (wherever that may be) for work overseas might change substantially due to the "Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Architect Project."
Australia, Japan, & Taiwan already have agreements, the purpose of which is to make it fairly straight-forward to become registered in participating economies. It's too early to see how this all pans out, but both the US & Canada are listed as participating economies.
This isn't to say that firms will value work done overseas or not, but being able to put on your resume that you're a registered architect in the place you're applying could help. Also could be potentially useful if you're ever trying to establish a branch office overseas.
starting a career abraod
I'd really like to work abroad for a few years. Anyone with international knowledge know of some good markets to look at? Unfortunatley I only speak English (typical American!).
Also, any pros/cons for starting your career abroad? I have my IDP done, so I dont need to worry about that.
australia.
pros - great weather
cons - distance (esp when you want to visit family back home)
china.
pros - china.
cons - china.
:/
One more for Australia.
pros - good coffee
cons - bad weather (if you live in Melbourne)
If you have your IDP done, I would go ahead and sit for the ARE. That way if you do decide to come back you have your license, and it should reciprocate where ever you decide to work.
Pretty much anywhere in Western Europe and Scandinavia you will get by with only knowing English, but just by living there you will pick it up. I know a girl who went to my school that now practices in Austria. She is pretty much fluent in German after 5 years.
India
pros - you can get by with english
cons - you have to get shots before you go
Another for China
pros - craziest proposal often wins
cons - you either love it or hate it
let me elaborate on my (snide) comment above:
China (specifically, Shanghai)
Pros:
There is plenty of work, finding a job is no problem. Most architecture firms welcome foreigners with open arms. Both international and local firms have an appreciation for western design education and experience, and foreign designers who are skilled in lateral thinking are highly valued. "Architect" is a fairly well-respected profession here, and there is a fairly large architecture and design community with lots of opportunities for networking. The pay isn't great, but the cost of living is low, and one can live very comfortably on a typical salary. Shanghai is a huge international city: you can get by with only English.
Cons:
If you expect to be designing Bird's Nests and CCTVs you will be disappointed: these glamorous jobs are rare, and the "craziest proposal" will not always win. Like anywhere, most clients are concerned with their bottom line first and foremost, and will only go for audacious schemes if they feel the iconic image is paramount. The speed of projects can be exhilarating, but at such a pace there will always be corners cut or details ignored; quality control is a struggle. Your mileage may vary on "culture shock." The air. You should visit first and try breathing before you make a commitment....
Has anybody here worked in Scandinavia?
Shanghai would be great. Can you really work there without knowing any Mandarin? And maybe this is a topic for another thread...but what kind of pay can you expect in China?
@jbushkey....working on it. I have a travel fellowship in Norway this summer. Hoping to get some good networking/leads in for after graduation. Emailing has so far been unsuccessful for a summer internship.
I started my career abroad in Shanghai a number of years ago.
While I have few positive things to say about my work experience as a whole in Shanghai, I will say that when I returned to the US, EVERY interviewer responded with very positive remarks, regarding a young individual who was willing to take the initiative to move across the world to pursue their career. It definitely was a nice thing to have on my resume and helped separate me from others who were competing for the same job.
RE China...
Can you make enough in China at an overall effectively reduced wage to make a dent in one's American sized student loan payments?
Yes. A number of my expat friends were working at American firms making American wages. They were able to save a substantial chunk of change and live a relatively well within Shanghai. I had 4 friends that stayed in Shanghai, although unhappy with their jobs, solely to pay off their student loan debt.
One of my friends lived there for 2.5 years. I believe she paid off close to 65k worth of student loan debts during her time in Shanghai. She was making around 50k a year. By no means was she living a frugal live either. Her firm did pay for her apartment and gave her one round-trip ticket back to the US every year.
If you work for a Chinese firm, you probably won't be able to make a dent in your student loans.
Things change fast in China - n_ when was this? I think the "expat package" is an endangered species, and probably not applicable to OP's situation. Sure, if your American company SENDS you to china, you can expect a US salary and some extra benefits, but I think that for someone already thinking about moving (and thus, probably applying specifically for jobs in China) would be naive to expect such a high salary.
I've spoken with a handful of HR recruiters here, and they tell me the salary for (locally-hired) architects/designers (with a few years experience) ranges from 4,000 - 30,000 rmb, month - a HUGE range. The major factor will be whether you work for a local or an international firm - when I got job offers in Shanghai, the local firms offered little over half what the international firms did. I think the firm itself is a much bigger factor than your background, as the skills that foreign architects bring are no longer as rare as they once were, especially as China opens up relations with Taiwan, a source of foreign-trained, multi-lingual, and culturally-attuned staff...
The last of my friends left Shanghai last year. Their replacements were still being offered expat packages so they still exists, although I'm sure they are few and far between nowadays.
things are likely different now but my own experience was that after working 5 years in asia in the 1990's i returned to canada to find that idp was going to be a problem, and the offices i interviewed at mostly dismissed the experience i had accumulated.
after some soul-searching i took a chance on europe where for whatever reason the experience was valued, and became an ex-pat again. it meant the difference between starting from zero and continuing where i left off. now i am even further down the road i am not sure i would ever be able to start an entire new career back where i grew up.
if you plan to return to your home country i definitely recommend getting your licence, or at least idp, before embarking on a career abroad. it will make the return much easier. alternatively you can get around some of the difficulties by working for a western firm and be sure to get a mentor once you start work so you have someone to sign off on the logbook (some of my friends who managed the ex-pat architect life better than me did it this way).
How is the middle east? I hear so much about as to how they welcome foreign passports with foreign degrees with open arms. Also, how they pay you well with being almost tax free in most countries. I'll admit the cost of living is high in a lot of places but is it really worth it? I probably am just hearing bull but you guys could help me out.
By the way, when you work in other places abroad, do you have to write any exam before you can work? Or do you just start working right away?
Hey Jump, not sure if you're aware, but the days of not being able to become accredited back home (wherever that may be) for work overseas might change substantially due to the "Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Architect Project."
http://www.apecarchitects.org/
Australia, Japan, & Taiwan already have agreements, the purpose of which is to make it fairly straight-forward to become registered in participating economies. It's too early to see how this all pans out, but both the US & Canada are listed as participating economies.
This isn't to say that firms will value work done overseas or not, but being able to put on your resume that you're a registered architect in the place you're applying could help. Also could be potentially useful if you're ever trying to establish a branch office overseas.
thanks intotheloop, that is great!
I really hope the rest of the world treats you as well as America treats foreign Architects.
definitely China for US architects. I will post more to share my view.
I hope they'll have you, really!
New Zealand - Awesome Country
http://www.quickmusclebuild.com/critical-bench-review/
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.